Alchemical Crafting T3 Results and Discussion

[quicksilverlord]

MY question is how many of the ingreds can u get by almost completing the quest. if it is none, then there isnt really much of a comparison in speed you can make these items than a GS, which, while most people dont bother, you can farm it out till you r ransacked on the chests (if you need the ingreds) then do a completion

So since what ive read is implying that the ingreds for part of tier 1 and most tier 2 and 3 are from finishing the quest, how can this be faster than getting GS, which you can farm 7 times or so before completing?

(As ive not been on lama, i havnt tried personally, just what is being said gives this impression)

[Chai]

These are so over-powered they almost look like a joke. Did Turbine hire a bunch of 10 year-olds to work as game-balance consultants?

Yeap.

I was about to post something to the effect of "the power creep takes another step forward", but then I realize that would be false.

Its taking about 5 steps forward.

[Missing_Minds]

Ah, the new form of power creap....

Green Steel Epic. And once you get your hands on one, you'll never put it down for anything else.

If the Dev's ever thought the original greensteel was over powered and a mistake, it makes me wonder what they remembered this time through. Epic or Not.

While I know it is my choice to run epic or not, quests or not, this going into live with what it represents gives me serious pause if I want to stick around any more or not. (yeah, I know, some of you are going leave leave leave leave... well, you might just get your wish.)

I mean greensteel qualified for relic status to begin with... what is this? Godhood?

[barryman5000]

Ah, the new form of power creap....

Green Steel Epic. And once you get your hands on one, you'll never put it down for anything else.

If the Dev's ever thought the original greensteel was over powered and a mistake, it makes me wonder what they remembered this time through. Epic or Not.

While I know it is my choice to run epic or not, quests or not, this going into live with what it represents gives me serious pause if I want to stick around any more or not. (yeah, I know, some of you are going leave leave leave leave... well, you might just get your wish.)

I mean greensteel qualified for relic status to begin with... what is this? Godhood?

The abbot aspired to be a god and we kicked his butt. Why not?

/sarcasm

[Grosbeak07]

Yeap.

I was about to post something to the effect of "the power creep takes another step forward", but then I realize that would be false.

Its taking about 5 steps forward.

If this type of weaponry makes it live and having to do the raids on Elite and/or Epic is required, you will open up a big gap between the haves and the have nots.

Seriously need to dial it back a bit, even if we the players need new loot to play new content.

[Truga]

Yeap.

I was about to post something to the effect of "the power creep takes another step forward", but then I realize that would be false.

Its taking about 5 steps forward.

I, however, am liking my superior IX clickies and lores! Also, soon coming, clickies and lore items specifically for blade barriers and DP (because my FVS really needs it!). I am expecting a number of threads crying for caster nerfs _again_ once these weapons become widespread.

I also find it weird that the general complaint is that there is no tough end game content in the game but better gear which makes already trivial content even easier is very welcomed.

Funny, how hypocritical some people are huh? :P

That said, many are wanting "harder" content. Problem is, by now we know every possible kind of thing turbine could possibly throw our way. Let's face it, it's just three things. One is boss HP and damage (prime examples: shroud, vod, tod). Second is puzzles (prime examples: abbot, twilight forge). Third is special boss mechanics (prime examples: titan's pillars, xyzzy's pups, harbinger's orbs).

Now, here comes the problem. Special boss mechanics, once figured out and mastered become a joke, usually doable by 2-3 people (titan a-pikes, reaver's pike). Same with puzzles. Twilight forge bridges+rooms puzzle is incredibly challenging for first timers, but for someone who knows it it's a matter of spinning some tiles to the exact right position and using a ddoor a couple times, it's barely a 5 minute obstacle.

On the same note, people don't like to pug abbot, because someone screwing up can often lead to a fail that other people could do nothing about. Instant lose mechanics are therefore also "not fun".

So the only thing left is increasing enemy hp and dps, which we also find "not fun". What then? How does one increase difficulty in a good way?

I'd say some quests deserve less shrines. Or maybe less shrines on higher difficulties. Or maybe even reverse, since normal is easier and shrines recharge. Would give an incentive to run higher difficulties on things like shroud. Other than that, I have no idea.

Or, maybe, they're just getting us ready for level 26+ content, which will actually require all this silly overpowered gear to complete? One can wish right? :P

[Diyon]

I, however, am liking my superior IX clickies and lores! Also, soon coming, clickies and lore items specifically for blade barriers and DP (because my FVS really needs it!). I am expecting a number of threads crying for caster nerfs _again_ once these weapons become widespread.



Funny, how hypocritical some people are huh? :P

That said, many are wanting "harder" content. Problem is, by now we know every possible kind of thing turbine could possibly throw our way. Let's face it, it's just three things. One is boss HP and damage (prime examples: shroud, vod, tod). Second is puzzles (prime examples: abbot, twilight forge). Third is special boss mechanics (prime examples: titan's pillars, xyzzy's pups, harbinger's orbs).

Now, here comes the problem. Special boss mechanics, once figured out and mastered become a joke, usually doable by 2-3 people (titan a-pikes, reaver's pike). Same with puzzles. Twilight forge bridges+rooms puzzle is incredibly challenging for first timers, but for someone who knows it it's a matter of spinning some tiles to the exact right position and using a ddoor a couple times, it's barely a 5 minute obstacle.

On the same note, people don't like to pug abbot, because someone screwing up can often lead to a fail that other people could do nothing about. Instant lose mechanics are therefore also "not fun".

So the only thing left is increasing enemy hp and dps, which we also find "not fun". What then? How does one increase difficulty in a good way?

I'd say some quests deserve less shrines. Or maybe less shrines on higher difficulties. Or maybe even reverse, since normal is easier and shrines recharge. Would give an incentive to run higher difficulties on things like shroud. Other than that, I have no idea.

Or, maybe, they're just getting us ready for level 26+ content, which will actually require all this silly overpowered gear to complete? One can wish right? :P

Well a few things, increasing boss damage/hp does make things more difficult even with a similar increase for weapons, because we aren't getting an proportionate boost in HP.

As to the special boss mechanics, they don't have to become easy once its figured out. Lets look at Velah's breath weapon. Once you understand it, its pretty easy to make it a non-issue. However, if you took the same attack, lessen the warning time, and increase the battle area with her moving around it quickly in an unpredictable manner, then it becomes much much more difficult to avoid the attack even if you know everything about it. Really the key here isn't to add special boss mechanics to make the fights harder, its to add special boss mechanics that are hard to make the fight harder.

Same thing with puzzles, if the puzzle is hard to predict, that helps too. But add some elements of danger to the puzzle, and make hard to actually solve the puzzle, not because the puzzle is hard to solve itself, but because the mechanics of the battle make it hard to actually work the puzzle.

[Marten]

Curious if these are coming in handwrap form or if monks will once again get the shaft.

Yes, wraps are in.

The current design even allows for Light & Dark monks to make different choices on the ML 18 T2 wraps. With T3 epic warps this become less important but still useful.

All items have a material type, one of these is not focused on DR but DPS. So, a light monk can focus on getting a touch more DPS while a Dark monk can focus on that all important DR breaking.

However, even the Dark monk can choose the slightly higher DPS and use the Red Epic slot for DR, if they want to wait.

The light monk can select the DPS material type and use the Red Epic slot to break Crystal DR if the light monk wanted to stay true to, "Master of DR Breakers."

I personally hope to make 2 sets of wraps while enjoying the new content;

Devils
T1 (E) - Acid Burst, Greater Stone Prison, Earthgrab
T2 (A) - Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, Exceptional Dexterity +2
T3 (A) - +6 Enhancement Bonus, Red Augment Slot, Electrifying Blast

and

Non-Devils
All Fire
T1 (F) - Flaming Burst, Flaming Blast, Seeker +10
T2 (F) - Incineration, Righteous, Exceptional Strength +2
T3 (F) - +6 Enhancement Bonus, Red Augment Slot, Fiery Blast


Can't wait to test them, I REALLY hope the wraps work out of the gate this time.

[Marten]

Stunning also has a passive proc, allowing that on non blunt weapons (which are already better dps wise) pretty much eliminates the need for blunt weapons and is quite powerful.
Seeker +10 is the reason people farm the demon queen for the marilith chain.
Since people already have such items on lammania they're apparently rather easy to get thus the new content eliminated old content, namely demon sands and the shroud because the raids are not that hard and apparently equipment is way faster to aquire by just runing the new content.

/edit
I also find it weird that the general complaint is that there is no tough end game content in the game but better gear which makes already trivial content even easier is very welcomed.

You failed to read a bit of the post...

You can't equate a Dev dropping a bunch of materials on the ground at the end of a raid and letting people test the crafting side with the number of runs people are going to have to do on live.

[Marten]

Yeap.

I was about to post something to the effect of "the power creep takes another step forward", but then I realize that would be false.

Its taking about 5 steps forward.

A recent Dev post all but confirms that something past current end game is coming. So, if they didn't start the power creep now, when that does come everyone would be complaining that the new content can't be played... short of the servers getting nuked I believe that DDO will be with us for a while longer, it may be this game generation's Ultima Online in its longevity. There has to be some power creep at some point, ummm I mean balance.

Sue me for trying to see the positive here. I refuse to let a minority of players and a few Devs jade me!

[wax_on_wax_off]

Is there a definitive list yet of all the crafting options?

[SillyWallaby]

Is there a definitive list yet of all the crafting options?

Here

[Marten]

Is there a definitive list yet of all the crafting options?

This, was linked:

Seems to be:
Earth
Air
Water
Fire

Two types of Three Tiers of each element (magic / DPS)

Base units (weapons / shields) with metal based properties (silver, cold iron, etc) or some type of stacking DPS bonus.

Base item ML 16 Unbound
Add T1-T2 ML 18 BTC
T3 Epic Tier ML 20 BTC

[Rumbaar]

It's interesting to see more and more Morelands BETA styled testing on the preview Lamannia server.

I would have hoped/assumed this level of testing would have taken place months ago on Morelands.

[LightBear]

Tier 3:
You use ingredients obtained in Elite and Epic versions of the Lord of Blades and Master Artificer raids to add the following "Mystical" effects to a caster stick:
Water: Efficient Metamagic Extend II, [red]Greater Transmutation Focus [/red], Greater Elemental Spell Power

Water breathing is the only spell from that school that has anything to do with water.

[Marten]

It's interesting to see more and more Morelands BETA styled testing on the preview Lamannia server.

I would have hoped/assumed this level of testing would have taken place months ago on Morelands.

You can never test enough, however...
Getting to see and play with the new toys is not the same as helping form them.

I would dare say that with all the positives coming from forum posts on the new content / class the players & Devs on Morelands did what needed to be done.

Its also really easy to pick at people that can't fight back, so please feel free to attack Morelands some more.

And no, I am not a Morelandser, if I was I couldn't make this post but I am not so I can! Time to get ready to have Chemo injected into my spine! Guess I could kick people in wheelchairs while I am there to make myself feel better?!

[wax_on_wax_off]

So ...

Triple Air slotted with good as Devil Raid Boss beater?
Triple Acid slotted with good as Demon Raid Boss beater?
Triple Fire as all around utility weapon?
Triple Water as utility with least resistible damage?

How does the DPS of these weapons compare to GS and epics, has anyone worked it out?
Are the base damage dice of the weapons similar to GS blanks?
I'm seeing people mixing and matching the affects but I'm not sure why as it would seem to result in less DPS vs desired foe than staying pure, why are they mixing and matching?

I guess ideally as a TWF'ing melee we'd have 1 weapon of each type and then mix and match them for the situation (Air/Water for devils, Acid/Water for demons etc?).

Which of the 4 weapons would be best to farm more of the weapons (which one is best in the raid that you get the weapons)?

In raid situations is it optimal to mix and match any elements on a weapon?

What does laceration apply to do you think? Blade Barrier, Cometfall? More?
For divines, Superior Inferno (firestorm, flamestrike) for casting types or Air Guard (haste) for battle capable types.
For T3 spell items Fire seems highly preferable followed distantly by Earth.
Is there any constraints on the choice of T3 by the choice of T1?

[Marten]

So ...

Triple Air slotted with good as Devil Raid Boss beater?
Triple Acid slotted with good as Demon Raid Boss beater?
Triple Fire as all around utility weapon?
Triple Water as utility with least resistible damage?

How does the DPS of these weapons compare to GS and epics, has anyone worked it out?

I think the pics I saw of blanks were very close if not identical to GS blanks, but my memory has been a bit challenged the last few days.

Are the base damage dice of the weapons similar to GS blanks?
I'm seeing people mixing and matching the affects but I'm not sure why as it would seem to result in less DPS vs desired foe than staying pure, why are they mixing and matching?

I personally will mix and match because I have +3 Holy Stunning 10 wraps and having something that adds to my list of tricks, Stone prison, Earth Grab offsets the likely hood that the acid will be ignored most of the time.

I guess ideally as a TWF'ing melee we'd have 1 weapon of each type and then mix and match them for the situation (Air/Water for devils, Acid/Water for demons etc?).

Which of the 4 weapons would be best to farm more of the weapons (which one is best in the raid that you get the weapons)?

The system seem to be very flexible, so that would depend on your build, feats, weapons you feel need filled/replaced, yada...

In raid situations is it optimal to mix and match any elements on a weapon?

I say, "do what makes you happy." Other may argue that for xyz mob abc weapon has the best dps.

What does laceration apply to do you think? Blade Barrier, Cometfall? More?
For divines, Superior Inferno (firestorm, flamestrike) for casting types or Air Guard (haste) for battle capable types.
For T3 spell items Fire seems highly preferable followed distantly by Earth.

Is there any constraints on the choice of T3 by the choice of T1?
No, you can have any element on any tier, even mix DPS based with caster based tiers. ex: T1 Earth melee, T2 Air arcane, T3 Fire melee

Comments in Red

[Diyon]

Yes, wraps are in.

The current design even allows for Light & Dark monks to make different choices on the ML 18 T2 wraps. With T3 epic warps this become less important but still useful.

All items have a material type, one of these is not focused on DR but DPS. So, a light monk can focus on getting a touch more DPS while a Dark monk can focus on that all important DR breaking.

However, even the Dark monk can choose the slightly higher DPS and use the Red Epic slot for DR, if they want to wait.

The light monk can select the DPS material type and use the Red Epic slot to break Crystal DR if the light monk wanted to stay true to, "Master of DR Breakers."

I personally hope to make 2 sets of wraps while enjoying the new content;

Devils
T1 (E) - Acid Burst, Greater Stone Prison, Earthgrab
T2 (A) - Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, Exceptional Dexterity +2
T3 (A) - +6 Enhancement Bonus, Red Augment Slot, Electrifying Blast

and

Non-Devils
All Fire
T1 (F) - Flaming Burst, Flaming Blast, Seeker +10
T2 (F) - Incineration, Righteous, Exceptional Strength +2
T3 (F) - +6 Enhancement Bonus, Red Augment Slot, Fiery Blast


Can't wait to test them, I REALLY hope the wraps work out of the gate this time.

I'm a little confused (or braindead?), but what material increases dps?

[LightBear]

This, was linked:

Seems to be:
Earth
Air
Water
Fire

Two types of Three Tiers of each element (magic / DPS)

Base units (weapons / shields) with metal based properties (silver, cold iron, etc) or some type of stacking DPS bonus.

Base item ML 16 Unbound
Add T1-T2 ML 18 BTC
T3 Epic Tier ML 20 BTC

The ddo wiki is updated with the effects.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Alchemical_Crafting