Alchemical Crafting T3 Results and Discussion

[Jaid314]

yes, it is.

I'm sorry, I just think a seeker 10, stunning 10, lightning strike weapon (not sure if that combo is actually possible) is ridiculous. We're almost looking at the original ESoS in terms of insanity. Don't get me wrong I will absolutely craft these on my guys if I don't drown in my own vomit first.

so in other words, you actually skipped that part where you understand what you're talking about before you talk about it, and don't actually even know what's possible with it.

good luck with that, i'd ask you to let me know how it works but i'm pretty sure i already know the answer to that.

[waterboytkd]

yes, it is.

I'm sorry, I just think a seeker 10, stunning 10, lightning strike weapon (not sure if that combo is actually possible) is ridiculous. We're almost looking at the original ESoS in terms of insanity. Don't get me wrong I will absolutely craft these on my guys if I don't drown in my own vomit first.

You can't make that...so, if I understand this right, you're calling this OP, and you don't even understand it yet...

Normally, I'd just ignore you, but your such a prolific poster on these forums that I want to make sure the devs, in case they read what you wrote, understand you have no basis for your opinion whatsoever, and that they absolutely ignore it.

[grodon9999]

You can't make that...so, if I understand this right, you're calling this OP, and you don't even understand it yet...

I was off by one thing, a stunning 10 lightning strike weapon looks possible which is just plain silly. Stunning 10 being slottable on non-blunt weapons is a huge change as well which though it will benefit me I'm not sure this is a good thing.

Normally, I'd just ignore you, but your such a prolific poster on these forums that I want to make sure the devs, in case they read what you wrote, understand you have no basis for your opinion whatsoever, and that they absolutely ignore it.

We're all equally ignore by the devs regardless of our greenis or post count.

[sirgog]

Yes it does. Power-creep kills games and we're about to crash off a cliff. it was fun while it lasted.

These are a tier above Greensteel, yes. But there's nothing insane about them. They are a modest power increase.

Seeker 10, the most flashy ability, is nowhere near as good in U11 raiding as it is in raids on Live due to raid boss fortification increases.


A question - has anyone crafted onto a shield yet? If you make a T2 Air shield, does it get Lightning Strike on bashes, or does it get Lightning Storm Guard?

[blkcat1028]

The alchemical HW are making me regret TRing my monk

As far as the power of the items goes, it seems like a logical upgrade to green steal. Personally, I'd be very disappointed if the first end-game content in 2 years didn't give us some nice new toys to play with.

And Shade, thanks for all your posts. They're very helpful and always informative!

[Jaid314]

I was off by one thing, a stunning 10 lightning strike weapon looks possible which is just plain silly. Stunning 10 being slottable on non-blunt weapons is a huge change as well which though it will benefit me I'm not sure this is a good thing.

ah. so now i'm supposed to panic over the combination of stunning +10 and lightning strike. seriously? who cares. now people without mad skillz will be able to do without weapon swapping what people *with* mad skillz have been able to do by weapon swapping: be able to use both stun *and* dps on the same weapon!

*gasp* the horror! oh no, not that! anything but that!

seriously? that's the most horrifying thing you can come up with? that people might combine stunning and lightning strike? this is supposed to make me look up and say "omg, that is so totally overpowered, this game is going to become unplayable because of how broken that is"?

it's convenient. nothing more. it saves on inventory slots, and it saves on weapon swaps, and i'm not about to panic over that.

[phum]

Some questions, if some1 has answers. My apologies, if I missed something already explained in the thread. I think I read it well tho.

1. How much of gs crafting do you think will become obsolete, when ml of alchemical crafting is reached?
2. Is the total amount of recipes 4*4*4? Meaning at each tier you can choose earth, fire, water or air. Or do the meltdowns have any effect on the final properties?
3. If there really are 64 recipes, that means there are only 12 different effects to be added. How many are known and is there yet a list of them? (Didn't find any yet^^)

Thx in advance.

[supp3nhuhn]

ah. so now i'm supposed to panic over the combination of stunning +10 and lightning strike. seriously? who cares. now people without mad skillz will be able to do without weapon swapping what people *with* mad skillz have been able to do by weapon swapping: be able to use both stun *and* dps on the same weapon!

*gasp* the horror! oh no, not that! anything but that!

seriously? that's the most horrifying thing you can come up with? that people might combine stunning and lightning strike? this is supposed to make me look up and say "omg, that is so totally overpowered, this game is going to become unplayable because of how broken that is"?

it's convenient. nothing more. it saves on inventory slots, and it saves on weapon swaps, and i'm not about to panic over that.

Stunning also has a passive proc, allowing that on non blunt weapons (which are already better dps wise) pretty much eliminates the need for blunt weapons and is quite powerful.
Seeker +10 is the reason people farm the demon queen for the marilith chain.
Since people already have such items on lammania they're apparently rather easy to get thus the new content eliminated old content, namely demon sands and the shroud because the raids are not that hard and apparently equipment is way faster to aquire by just runing the new content.

/edit
I also find it weird that the general complaint is that there is no tough end game content in the game but better gear which makes already trivial content even easier is very welcomed.

[budalic]

Stunning also has a passive proc, allowing that on non blunt weapons (which are already better dps wise) pretty much eliminates the need for blunt weapons and is quite powerful.
Seeker +10 is the reason people farm the demon queen for the marilith chain.
Since people already have such items on lammania they're apparently rather easy to get thus the new content eliminated old content, namely demon sands and the shroud because the raids are not that hard and apparently equipment is way faster to aquire by just runing the new content.

Shroud still hass accessories (also few speciality weapons, most notably 3xpos and RadII). Demon sands still has bunch of good epic items. Also, if you want something else than Fire for your first tier, you'll still want bloodstone/marry chain.

EDIT: Also, eSoS still has no seeker.

[Shade]

Since people already have such items on lammania they're apparently rather easy to get thus the new content eliminated old content, namely demon sands and the shroud because the raids are not that hard and apparently equipment is way faster to aquire by just runing the new content.

Really terrible assumption you could of known was wrong if you read the OP.

The reason we have them fast is the QA guy generated us hundreds of every needed component, so that we could test the upgrades and report any potential bugs we found trying them out.

They aren't easy to get. LoB Elite/Epic will be required to get tier3, and it's quite challenging.

They can take some time to get, and we wouldn't have them yet without help. Like I said, a month perhaps if your sucessfully running the raid every 3 days, on say 1-2 characters (some parts are BTA). I'd actually like to see the top tier take more effort, but they are by no means easy.

Also imo theres more to come yet.. This stuffs all available in elite.. So there has to be something special in epic.

[sirgog]

Really terrible assumption you could of known was wrong if you read the OP.

The reason we have them fast is the QA guy generated us hundreds of every needed component, so that we could test the upgrades and report any potential bugs we found trying them out.

They aren't easy to get. LoB Elite/Epic will be required to get tier3, and it's quite challenging.

They can take some time to get, and we wouldn't have them yet without help. Like I said, a month perhaps if your sucessfully running the raid every 3 days, on say 1-2 characters (some parts are BTA). I'd actually like to see the top tier take more effort, but they are by no means easy.

Also imo theres more to come yet.. This stuffs all available in elite.. So there has to be something special in epic.

You can get them faster than that if a raid group work together, passing components to one person.

Kinda like a guild that works together can run TOD once on Hard, and their new Monk has two rings (probably not the ones they want) and 18 trophies.

But it looks like a T3 weapon will require ~20 runs if groups don't pool resources like that, including multiple elite runs (as you aren't guaranteed to get the elite/epic only elemental component each run). T2 will take ~12 runs, probably with multiple Hard.

And T1 items can be attained quite quickly (6-ish Normal runs) but are nothing special at all - generally quite a bit weaker than Shroud weapons.


As for Epic - I'm expecting to see Good + Adamantine time limited red augments. Maybe a +8 augment as well.

[Skavenaps]

can we have a bit more info on the shield?

AC? Anyone have seen a tower one? it takes the same enchants as weps? Procs on bashes? give its power to the weapon u carring?

INFORMATION please!

[supp3nhuhn]

Really terrible assumption you could of known was wrong if you read the OP.

The reason we have them fast is the QA guy generated us hundreds of every needed component, so that we could test the upgrades and report any potential bugs we found trying them out.

They aren't easy to get. LoB Elite/Epic will be required to get tier3, and it's quite challenging.

They can take some time to get, and we wouldn't have them yet without help. Like I said, a month perhaps if your sucessfully running the raid every 3 days, on say 1-2 characters (some parts are BTA). I'd actually like to see the top tier take more effort, but they are by no means easy.

Also imo theres more to come yet.. This stuffs all available in elite.. So there has to be something special in epic.

The new raids are easier than ToD and running those short raids 10 times isn't really a lot compared to how often you need to run shroud for inferior gear that while being ML 12 can't be obtained anywhere near that level.

[phum]

List of recipes. Thx to MrAakmr. Found in the new loot thread.

http://mraakmr.imgur.com/ddo_u11_raid_crafting_station

[shadow_419]

The new raids are easier than ToD and running those short raids 10 times isn't really a lot compared to how often you need to run shroud for inferior gear that while being ML 12 can't be obtained anywhere near that level.

Exactly how many completions do you have for MA & LoB so far again? Especially on Elite and Epic. Unless you're rocking these Raids don't be so quick to dismiss them as easy. Are they super complicated, no. To call them easy though is a bit much.

[Aerendil]

They aren't easy to get. LoB Elite/Epic will be required to get tier3, and it's quite challenging.

They can take some time to get, and we wouldn't have them yet without help. Like I said, a month perhaps if your sucessfully running the raid every 3 days, on say 1-2 characters (some parts are BTA). I'd actually like to see the top tier take more effort, but they are by no means easy.

Also imo theres more to come yet.. This stuffs all available in elite.. So there has to be something special in epic.

This is it, exactly.
They're a tier above GS, but the raids are FAR harder.

I'd happily tackle Harry on normal any day of the week and farm Shroud mats, than have to tackle LoB on elite/epic.
Even MA isn't a giveaway - several of the times Shade has done MA the entire raid minus 2 or 3 people has wiped at a certain part.

So these weapons won't be floating around like crazy. At least not for several months, anyways.
I'd wager the hardcore folks will have one in a month or two. The casuals could take upwards of half a year to get to T3, especially if you're a TWF'er who wants a pair of weapons (or more, with gear swaps).

[supp3nhuhn]

Exactly how many completions do you have for MA & LoB so far again? Especially on Elite and Epic. Unless you're rocking these Raids don't be so quick to dismiss them as easy. Are they super complicated, no. To call them easy though is a bit much.

2, shortmanned, all first timers.
Try that with tod.

I find it odd how people claim those raids are anywhere near tod in difficulty.

[grodon9999]

I also find it weird that the general complaint is that there is no tough end game content in the game but better gear which makes already trivial content even easier is very welcomed.

new sig, thanks!

[Tinco]

As long as classes and loot are designed the way they are, there will never be challenging content for the top end players. And I honestly think that will never change because there is no emphasis on balance in DDO at all.

The challenge in DDO is taking 12 pretty random builds with average endgame gear, get the basic roles covered and succeed with this group. If there would ever be a challenge for 12 epic loaded FvS it would be a complete waste of development time because the top end group performance is so far ahead of the average group performance that it would be unbeatable for almost all setups.

Reaction/Puzzle induced challenge is a possibility but puzzles tend to get solved pretty fast after a few completions and for reaction based gameplay based on boss abilities the point of the game's 'unbalance' comes up again. A 500 damage whirlwind is deadly for most average casters and rogues but a barb is laughing. 800 hp dbf's make everyone without evasion sweat blood. People with sprint boost or wings laugh at stuff that must be kited while a heavy plate Paladin is probably dead. DDO is very limited on what (sufficiently overall threatening) boss mechanics work without excluding certain builds almost completely. Diversity causes divergence and I personally don't really want to go the WoW path, where diversity is cut down to a minimum to make balance ( and thus reaction based boss encounters) work.

So, concluding that there won't ever be challenging content if done with proper groups I don't really care for the power creep. Actually I'm very happy that my unarmed rogue finally gets a nice toy

[TheDjinnFor]

I'm thinking triple air as the new trash killer; Stunning +10 on any weapon, plus a tiny bit more DPS than a Lit 2, plus a red slot. The ability to have Stunning +10 on a weapon comparable to Lit 2 in DPS makes up for the fact that there are a few trash killers out there that can also out DPS a Lit 2, imo. Dunno how much electric resistance the trash from the new pack have.

But a DR breaker... it's quite easy to make one (Flametouched Iron + Metallic Edges Crystal) but I'm just not seeing a good combo of effects (probably due to the overabundance of elemental damage, no holy + geob lol).