drow : radiant ninja (help needed)

[burnt2nothing]

im just looking for suggestions to improve this build idea. 2nd TR=32 point drow, first and second lifes were ranger and bard.
12 levels claric for rad 2, 6 levels monk for ninja 1, 2 levels ftr (feats)

i am hoping to make use of the drow shortsword enhanchment, twf, and melee healing to allow a main healer breathing room. gear suggestions, level progression, feat choices by level,etc...

here is a rough thought i had

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 308
Spell Points: 856 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 14
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               16                    22
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    27
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  6                    10
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                  4                     4
Tumble                6                    13
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III

[tyrr]

I just don't see where where u are going here. you want AC while u backup heal or is there a DPS angle i'm missing?
just tell us what u want it to do

[Khumbaaba]

Looks similar to the necro melee builds only using cleric lvls instead of wizzy.

Figure out your goals, then get 12 of them together ftw.

[burnt2nothing]

im not concerned with ac, and as a drow im planning on making use of the shortswords (twf line + weapon finnesse) and as a claric i can use divine power to attain the same bab as a fighter of the same level. i know it looks a bit on the messy side, but it makes sense in my mind.

[MaxwellEdison]

Personally, I think you'd be better off and better accepted by the masses if you went Warchanter Bard as the base. But if this is really your dream...run with it. I can't provided much helpful advice for a build idea I don't really agree with though.

[Phidius]

First of all, I absolutely love these deep splashes (cannonball) on a cleric/wizard

Stats

I notice that you start your wisdom at 16, and put 4 level ups into it (and 1 into Dex).

I recommend starting your Wisdom at 14, and put the extra 4 points into Charisma for Divine Might (DM2 with a +2 Cha tome).

Then put all your level ups into Strength, and trade in Weapon Finesse for something else.

Feats

Oversized TWF - if you're using shortswords, you're not using this feat.
Weapon Finesse - Believe me, I've tried to make this work. It's just not worth it - you can get your strength higher than your dex, even on a drow.
ToughnessX2 - one is good to unlock the racial/class enhancements, I wouldn't recommend 2.
Mental Toughness - 105 spell points isn't very much at cap - I wouldn't take this unless it's a requirement for something good.

You should consider the following feats:
1. Quicken - essential (IMHO) on a melee that heals itself with spell points.
2. Maximize - free boost to your Healing Burst, and makes Divine Punishment and Blade Barrier (even with crappy saves) much tastier.
3. Empower - same as Maximize, but it can't always be squeezed in. Take it if you can.
4. Improved Critical - there are quite a few tasty shortswords that don't have Keen on them.

If you end up with extra feats, consider taking 1-2 levels of rogue. The backstabbing and UMD is worth it, but you can also squeeze in locks/traps. Also, 7 levels of monk opens up the 2nd rank of Improved Recovery.

To see my take on the 12 Cleric/6/2 evasion cannonball, check out my "Self-sufficient" link in my thread. I've got him to level 14 so far...

[MichelYoh]

Seems interesting, but i'd rather not go finesse, even if it looks good with it.

You wont be getting stunning blow, so i'd say wis can be dumped a bit. And 12 levels of cleric wont be as good as spellcasting either.

Go for Str route, you get to-hit and damage in one stat already, no need to split it into two.
You're TR, so i guess you can afford a +2 Wis tome, so you can Dump Wis to 8 and start with 18 Str.
Base 8 +6 item +2 tome = 16 (all you need to cast lvl 6 spells)

Swap Dodge from first lvl to when you get the sixth lvl of monk. You only need it to Ninja Spy, right?

6 monk grants incorporeallity, 12 cleric grants aura and heal, and 2 fighter grants feats and haste boost 1. Pretty good as is.

Seems like your sp will be mostly for emergency heals and buffs.

Another thing, i noticed you're taking OTWF, but you dont need it, since shortswords are light weapons. (remember to carry some handwraps and a pair of kamas for DR breaking)

Some feats i would advise for you are:
Quicken Spell - Sometimes, you dont want to fail, and quickened heals can save your life.
Quick Draw - Its really useful when you need to change weapons to DR break or use clickies. You will like Ardor Clickies.
Extra Turning - 4 more uses of your auras/bursts. Easier then bumpimg CHA up.
Toughness - Because more HP is never a bad idea.
Improved Critical:Pierce - Increasing Crit chance is good for DPS.

While Quick Draw and Extra Turning may not seem like the best of the choices, they could prove useful. I dont know about the usage of Quicken in a build like this, but Concentration only is not going to be enough against heavy hitters.

Just some thought about it. I liked the concept of a divine version of those wraith warriors.

[burnt2nothing]

thanks for the suggestions, my 2nd life for this toon was bard, (warchanter / AA, with rog half -elf dilly) which i really love, and is fun to play. my original thoughts for trying a build like this is because it is different. i know there are loads of "cookie-cutter" builds using the 12/6/2 format for the pre's, i just figured drow with the shortsword enhancements in addition to ninja spy 1(uses shortswords as ki weapons, remains centered) was goal #1. starting with a dex of 16 and using a +1 tome at lvl 3 gives me the full twf feats(why i went finesse) and goal #2 radiant servant to run an aura while im in the fray with other melee. thats my 2 big focus points, monk gives evasion, so idc about rogue splash for umd, traps, or fewer hp. healing aura and decent dps while playing as a drow was my focus, not the most uber multi-class ever, just something different. thanks for the advice everyone, im making adjustments now.

[Kinerd]

You will have better DPS with handwraps. This helps switch away from Drow; if you like finesse, I would go Halfling and load up on SA damage. You're not going to have aggro.

Maximize is a great choice for the slot you get from not having to take OTWF - bursts can be maximized.

[JollySwagMan]

If going Drow, one might consider bumping starting Cha to 16 (at the expense of Wisdom probably), allowing a very tasty Divine Might II without requiring any +2 tomes. This would also help UMD a bit - judicious use of Fireshield, Stoneskin, Blur/Displacement along with the Ninja fade can help mitigate a ton of damage.

I am not sure how Ninja Fade and Radiant Servant interact together, but I am quite interested. My guess would be that the RS abilities would break the Invisibility part, much as Negative Energy Bursts/Aura interrupt normal Invis for Arcanes.

I could see myself trying something similar, except probably with a Rogue splash instead of Fighter for a very solo/stealth oriented toon.

Fun Fact: The Ninja's proficiency in Shortswords mentions something about Vulkoor in the combat log upon login.

Alternately, one might consider 14 Paladin/6 Monk for a similar flavour, and perhaps some spreadsheet gamer friendly synergy with Short Swords.

[unbongwah]

I second pretty much everything Phidius suggests, but pretend I posted first so I don't sound like I'm just repeating what he said.

[burnt2nothing]

ok, so i took the time after work to lay this out after everyones suggestions, i dropped finesse and went str based, 7 lvls of monk, and 1 lvl rog for theif type behavior. also empower healing and quicken, (which i had to drop gtwf for) i see some pros and cons to each build, but i think i have to agree that this build will get a bit more bang for the buck, lemme know whatcha think. (edit: i added skill focus umd and power attack i figured i'd go balls deep in umd, with a base umd of 29 at level cap i should use all scrolls effectively, and make crits work for me with p.a., but these can be switched with maximize spell and gtwf)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(7 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 646 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 15
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom                8                    12
Charisma             16                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    14
Bluff                 3                     3
Concentration         3                    29
Diplomacy             3                     3
Disable Device        4                     6.5
Haggle                5                     5
Heal                 -1                     3
Hide                  6                     9
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  4                     9
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently         7                     8
Open Lock             7                     9
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                 -1                     3
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                7                    10
Use Magic Device      7                    29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar

[wax_on_wax_off]

As Kinerd said, handwraps will do considerably more damage (same damage/hit but 10% faster).

If you are intent on shortsword for something different and some flavour ...

TWF, ITWF, GTWF, PA and IC:P (not slashing) are absolutely required to have decent melee damage.
Empower Healing and Dodge are required for your PrE's.
Toughness is necessary.

This is 8 feats so far on a 10 feat build. The last 2 can be maximise and quicken.

I'd consider taking the Ranger active past life feat at level 3 and then swapping it out when it isn't useful anymore. The extra AC will be quite handy for a while. In fact, it's quite easy for this build to have a reasonable AC with just a little bit of gear in a majority of content while leveling.

[burnt2nothing]

i will be using wraps til lvl 14, then shortswords, dodge is needed for ninja spy 1, and empower healing is needed for radiant servant. again, this is a total flavor build, not the "uber-soloist build" and good catch on the short swords being peirce, not slash, my fault. thanks wax, i think that was the final clarification i needed for this build.

[unbongwah]

I don't see GTWF and you want IC Pierce not Slash for short swords; I'd also try to squeeze in at least Maximize (boosts your bursts, Cures, etc.). Luckily you didn't take your lvl 9 feat so you've got room for both if you drop SF UMD. Also I think Sovereign Host is more useful than Vulkoor, even if the latter may be more thematically appropriate.

[Phidius]

I'd start wisdom with at least 10, unless you've already planned out how your going to get your wisdom to the necessary levels for casting.

I'd take toughness at level 1, and Skill Focus: UMD after you've taken Cleric. This will make it easier to swap out the feat for Maximize once you've gotten the gear and you no longer "need" the +3 from the feat.

Charisma: 20 = 14 (base) + 2 (tome) + 6 (item)
Use Magic Device: 39 = 23 (ranks) + 5 (cha) + 1 (luck) + 3 (spyglass) + 3 (persuasion) + 4 (GH)

Most of the time, I heal myself and the party just with Empowered+Maximized bursts... it's easier to see who's prone to stay close and not be "blocked" or "out of range".

I know Power Attack is considered a must-have for a DPS build, but keep in mind that it lowers your to-hit, which cuts deeply into your DPS unless you continue to hit on a 2. I'm not a DPS guy - I'm sure there's a chart out there that shows the dimenishing returns on Power Attack.

I would definitely take gTWF over Power Attack.

You should also consider taking the light path, and switching it for the dark path at level 13. Fists of Light with handwraps will be very helpful as you level, while the dark side will be mostly useless until you get Ninja'ed.

[burnt2nothing]

thanks wax and phidius for not simply telling me this build is stupid, like i said earlier, this is an idea i had and put a little bit of thought into since i didnt see any others like it. my ultimate dream would have been kotc/avenger, but sadly those pre's do not work together. i have made all of the adjustments to the "radiant ninja" and i know im stoked to roll it up in the next few weeks after i get enough items to make the transition easier.

[Khumbaaba]

I think this will be an interesting build. I have a few friends that run with necro ninjas (similar idea) and they love them. If you can convince a friend or two to make one as well, they will be more or less unstoppable once rad serv kicks in.

The cleric will have a few advantages to the wiz version on the buff side and you should end up needing less sp to get the same job done.

[EpiKagEMO]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=3#post3700057
i think the fvs has been made(better belief=better damage).
i like the cleric version tho!
racial enhancements ftw!