Active/Shield Blocking needs an upgrade to percentage based reduction

[Shade]

Posted this in another thread but I think its a good enough idea to deserve its own thread to discuss.

First off no - THIS IS NOT A NERF SUGGESTION. This would be ADDITION to the existing flat numeric DR.

I think shield blocking needs to be upgraded to a percentage. As thats where the games heading where we have 1000+ (and even 2200+ with the new arti buff and epic destinies) HP tanks, and bosses (Lord of Blades can do this) dealings 500+ damage in 1 hit, the old 5-30 DR system barely scratches the surface of our power and the enemies power. Fixed numbers just end up either game breaking (DR blocks all damage because the monster hits fast, but for low amounts) or too weak (Lord of Blades hits you for 500, 20 was stoped.. Who cares? should of just not blocked and kept swinging)

I'd suggest:
Martial "Tank" Classes (Full BAB, d10 HP or higher):
Thus - Ftr, Bbn, Pal:
When blocking with a non-shield (two hander, twf, etc): +50 PRR
When blocking with small/heavy shield: +75 PRR
When blocking with a tower shield: +100 PRR. (This only works if you proficent, else you get the regular shield +75, to discourage ppl from using shields they arent prof in just to block)
This stacks with shield masterys current bonus. (tho keep in mind, shield mastery is now PASSIVE, and this Suggestion purely has to do with ACTIVE blocking)

Tough, non-tank classes (Full BAB, D8 HP)
Thus - Ranger, Monk:
When blocking with bow/two hander/two weapon/wraps: +30 PRR
When blocking with small/heavy shield: +50 PRR
When blocking with a tower shield: 80 PRR (This only works if you proficent, else you get the regular shield +50, to discourage ppl from using shields they arent prof in just to block)

Squishies (Less than Full BAB)
When blocking with bow/two hander/two weapon/wraps: No physical damage resistance.
When blocking with small/heavy shield: +10 PRR
When blocking with a tower shield: +60 PRR (This only works if you proficent, else you get the regular shield +10, to discourage ppl from using shields they arent prof in just to block)

To qualify for these bonuses you can't splash.. Your class icon must match the class listed. (So 11 levels of ftr is enough, but 9/10 may not be)

Similar to the current shield mastery feats upgrade. But different in that the shields function all the time while wearing a shield... These would only function while active blocking (and facing the enemy)

Tho on the subject of caster shield DR: Imo in the cases of some 0% ASF shields, I think there flat DR should be lower then ones which can't get to 0% ASF.. And Currently that is true (Epic warding shield is 0% sloted, DR12, Lorriks champion is 15% ASF, DR15), and I hope it hold true for the upcoming alchemical shields also, and that they get a good base DR for the heavier/higher ASF ones.

[Grenada]

Interesting, but it would hurt S&B in situations where dps is lower (and would also hurt s&b characters at lower levels)

[Kmnh]

So you want to kill shield blocking casters? Why?

I don't see the point, really. I find a caster that has dedicated feats and gear to tank as more interesting than the silly barb with a loincloth and an esos.

[Failedlegend]

Its a good idea but I don't see the reasoning why non Barbarians should get penalized.

[Seventh]

So you want to kill shield blocking casters? Why?

I don't see the point, really. I find a caster that has dedicated feats and gear to tank as more interesting than the silly barb with a loincloth and an esos.

Assuming I read the post correctly, this wouldn't kill anything- these bonuses would be in addition to the Shield Mastery feats.

My 2cp- why not just make it so that each tier of the "Defender" PrEs (Stalwart Defender, Defender of Siberys, and eventually Dwarven Defender) gives you 5% stacking damage absorption while blocking? Seems simpler, IMO.

[Elaril]

What in a barbarian class makeup would make them qualify for this bonus?

I'd have to agree with Seventh, the buff should be tied into the tanking PRE's. They sacrifice quite a bit to be tanks, so why wouldn't they be the best tanks?

[Shade]

This is not a nerf suggestion. Any bonuses would be in ADDITION to the current shield blocking DR.

So no, m not asking for casters shield blockign to get nerfed. Im asking for tank classes, to get bonuses so they properly be tanks at endgame when we get hit for hundreds of damage.

[Shade]

What in a barbarian class makeup would make them qualify for this bonus?

Um isn't that obvious?
They are and have always been an exceptionally good tank class.
Or have you never done an endgame raid? They are typically done with bbn tanks. Mine has tanked every single raid in the game quite wel, as have thousands of others.

And I also explained a straight DnD reason too in the OP:
Martial "Tank" Classes (Full BAB, d10 HP or higher):
There are 3 classes that meet this criteria:

They gave Barbarians, Fighters and Paladins the highest hitpoints and currently the best shield DR (The current formula is based on your BAB) for a reason. It's not so they can hide in the back and let the sorcerer with his D4 hitdice shield block and hold agro with DoTs. Thats not DnD, and thats not DDO.

Far as SD fighters and DOS paladins remaining the best shield users in the game.. They certainly would be with this change. There are also huge upgrades incoming to there tank PrEs - check lamaninia dev tracker.

The fact Barbarians don't yet have there tanking PrE (Occult Slayer) implemented yet isn't a good reason to ignore them on mechanical upgrades like this. It's certainly planned and will come eventually.

[Bodic]

just one small thought:

Cleric and Favored Soul are the same 3/4 BaB and HP as Monk. As in no stance not full BaB and as much Divine Power grants full BaB

[Seikojin]

Interesting... 1% on LoB would be 5 damage blocked.

How much do you think DR should mitigate?

But Percentage is a good idea since it would scale with the damage incoming.

[gloopygloop]

What good would this actually do for melee types?

If you're shield blocking, you're going to lose aggro.
If you're not shield blocking, then you won't get the benefit.

Under what circumstances do you expect people to shield block now that Intimidate has been chagned to instantly lose aggro as soon as you stop swinging?

[Elaril]

Um isn't that obvious?
They are and have always been an exceptionally good tank class.
Or have you never done an endgame raid? They are typically done with bbn tanks. Mine has tanked every single raid in the game quite wel, as have thousands of others.

And I also explained a straight DnD reason too in the OP:
Martial "Tank" Classes (Full BAB, d10 HP or higher):
There are 3 classes that meet this criteria:

They gave Barbarians, Fighters and Paladins the highest hitpoints and currently the best shield DR (The current formula is based on your BAB) for a reason. It's not so they can hide in the back and let the sorcerer with his D4 hitdice shield block and hold agro with DoTs. Thats not DnD, and thats not DDO.

Far as SD fighters and DOS paladins remaining the best shield users in the game.. They certainly would be with this change. There are also huge upgrades incoming to there tank PrEs - check lamaninia dev tracker.

The fact Barbarians don't yet have there tanking PrE (Occult Slayer) implemented yet isn't a good reason to ignore them on mechanical upgrades like this. It's certainly planned and will come eventually.

So you've seen quite a few shield bearing barbarians in your raid groups have you?

Thanks for playing scooter.

[Shade]

just one small thought:

Cleric and Favored Soul are the same 3/4 BaB and HP as Monk. As in no stance not full BaB and as much Divine Power grants full BaB

Monks are permanetly ful BAB all the time with the correct weaponry. The bonuses would go away with incorect weaponry like I said.

Acess to a limimted dispelable buff doesn't define a classes overall toughness/tank status.

As if you were say fighting the new titan boss.. He has a tier4 AOE mantle. so there is no way you can shield block his attacks with the same effectiveness as a Monk.

With the upgrades you actaully could, if both equiped shields, you would both qualify for the same resistance bonuses.

Same goes for anywhere there are dispels. And also any class can cast Divine power, as its available in clickies.

[Shade]

So you've seen quite a few shield bearing barbarians in your raid groups have you?

Every single raid i've ever done on my barbarian, absolutely the barbarian does have a shield.

If a barbarian does not have a shield , I will kick him from my raids on the spot (or decline them before they join). Sign of a poor player.

Sure we don't wear them often, but that doesn't mean we don't carry them and use them situationally. If I didn't have a shield, I can't even imagine how many more times I would of died in certan raids. They are critical to the bbn class when played as a tank.

You just seem to have it in your mind that Barbarians aren't tanks, but I've proven otherwise the last 6 years. Ask anyone whos played with me.

[Elaril]

Additionally, I would tie in a percentage chance to absorb a bosses special ability to the PRE tiers and the shield mastery feats, since the developers seem to want us to hate tank everything.

[Shade]

Interesting... 1% on LoB would be 5 damage blocked.

How much do you think DR should mitigate?

But Percentage is a good idea since it would scale with the damage incoming.

Actaully for most casters I think it would be 0.

Not a lot can even survive a 500 damage strike in the first place.

And not it wouldn't be 5. It would be 5 +their base DR + there current active DR.

[gloopygloop]

I'll ask again - under what circumstances do you think that Shield Blocking would actually be beneficial for a melee character?

I ask that because current DDO functionality would see the Shield Blocking character lose aggro almost instantly if the rest of the party is also attacking the same boss.

[Elaril]

Every single raid i've ever done on my barbarian, absolutely the barbarian does have a shield.

If a barbarian does not have a shield , I will kick him from my raids on the spot (or decline them before they join). Sign of a poor player.

Sure we don't wear them often, but that doesn't mean we don't carry them and use them situationally. If I didn't have a shield, I can't even imagine how many more times I would of died in certan raids. They are critical to the bbn class when played as a tank.

You just seem to have it in your mind that Barbarians aren't tanks, but I've proven otherwise the last 6 years. Ask anyone whos played with me.

I'm sure you do a fine job of tanking on your barbarian and I have long been an advocate of every party member carrying a shield for the oh crud situations, but I don't think that that you can argue that if you saw a barbarian tanking a raid with a shield in his hand the entire time, that you'd send him private invites to your groups.

The developers have apparently decided that barbarian dps tanking is not the way that they want us to play the game. Just as they decided that they didn't want us intimiturtling. It's a shame, really, as it will invalidate countless builds, but that's just the way it seems that they want it. I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with giving barbarians a passive shield dr equivalent to that of a dedicated shield tank. Maybe something similar with the occult slayer pre that you mentioned, but certainly not with the classes current iteration.

[Thrudh]

Every single raid i've ever done on my barbarian, absolutely the barbarian does have a shield.

If a barbarian does not have a shield , I will kick him from my raids on the spot (or decline them before they join). Sign of a poor player.

Oh man I'd love to go back to 2007-2008 and pull some of Shade's old posts...

[JollySwagMan]

Interesting idea, but overly complicated class divisions. Especially if you try to figure in multiclassing.

Tying it to Shield Feats/Enhancements/Defender Pres would be more appropriate IMO