Explain this to me...

[Zillee]

Just going to drop in and mention Inferno of the Damned. I am unaware of any way to douse all of the torches without icestorm.

Use the mephits.

[Antheal]

I'm fairly new to the MMO version of DnD, only a couple of months in. I'm tempted to just ascribe this to general min/maxer MMO-mania but maybe there's some sense to it I am not seeing:

Ran Sands yesterday with a full PuG - had an awesome cleric on the team with a splash of fighter - healing left and right and always right up there with the melee - I think he was 11/1 Cleric/Fighter but I might be a lvl off. I know he only had one level of fighter. Point is: he was on top of things the whole while.

Somewhat later, I get picked up by a different team that wants to run Invaders on hard. We have one slot left and the leader wants a "healer"... I had friended this guy so I suggested inviting him and the leader does. Cleric joins us, "Omw...", etc.

So we're about to enter when the leader says "Battle Clerics suck" and *pop* the cleric is booted from the team.

Please explain what happened here. I may not know DDO as well as I know the core rules, but it seems like the leader shot us in the foot. We ended up with a "pure" cleric who ran out of spell points repeatedly.

The leader was a n00b, blacklist him for being an idiot and move on.

[karnokvolrath]

A good player is far more valuable than any particular build.

+1 The answer is simple as this.

[ToKu]

Ultimately he is the group leader and can decide who he wants to take. If I were you i'd just move on.

I know when I was going through my "run nothing but pugs" phase I ran into A LOT of bad players of every form and build. Maybe he just encountered one too many "battle clerics" who refused to heal or only would on themselves and decided a blanket ban was the solution.

Its awesome you found a good cleric, they are rare if the compliments and requests for friends I get when I do runs is any indication. Funny enough I think of myself as only above average because when I play a healer I don't melee, I keep my party alive and cast CC when appropriate.

I have seem some amazing healers who could do what I do AND contribute more.

[Mubjon]

You know you also screwed the other people in the party right?
Were they also responsible for what the leader did?

Guilt by association, they should have dropped and did the same thing to a poor leader. By choosing to stay they are explicit in helping continue a practice that does nothing to help the game.

[Entelech]

Guilt by association, they should have dropped and did the same thing to a poor leader. By choosing to stay they are explicit in helping continue a practice that does nothing to help the game.

I disagree.

The groupleader behaved badly. He cost the party a good healer and delayed the start of the adventure accordingly.

But someone else behaving cluelessly does not give you the right to be even worse. Waiting in group then hosing them with multiple reentries makes you a worse jerk than the stupid leader. He acted from ignorance. You acted with full awareness of what a jerk you were being.

Not only that, but you make it less likely that the leader will learn from his mistakes, since you change his outlook from "I wonder why that guy left right after I dropped his friend" to "Gosh, that guy was a childish twit. I'm glad I dumped his idiot battlecleric friend who was probably even worse."

If you want to help the game, control your own behavior. You cannot control anyone else's.

[Ebonrook]

You know you also screwed the other people in the party right?
Were they also responsible for what the leader did?

Was confused by what you meant until I saw I wrote "...a 6th, a low lvl sorc..." - he invited a "6th level sorc". By the time we got around to this run (hard) it was just he and I.

Edit: Lol too late! Neg rep!

Ah, this community.

[Ebonrook]

But someone else behaving cluelessly does not give you the right to be even worse. Waiting in group then hosing them with multiple reentries makes you a worse jerk than the stupid leader. He acted from ignorance. You acted with full awareness of what a jerk you were being.

I suppose it's pointless to clarify as people have already gone on a gleeful neg-rep fest due to the other post, but at the time this cleric was invited, the leader and I were the only two in the party and he was trying to rebuild it. Not your fault, I typed "A 6th" in the first post instead of "A 6th level sorc".