Wings wings wings: A Discussion

[Stanley_Nicholas]

It's not such a big deal. I do a lot of winging on my FvS, and SP is never an issue. Since I'll be able to wing less than half as much now, SP is even less of an issue even if the cost is doubled. So basically, the question you're raising is a non-issue.

Our playstyles must differ then. I generally don't spam my wings even now, so the charges change won't make much difference to me in general. But because my number of wing uses isn't changing, it will cost me double the SP to act as I normally do. It's either that or use wings less, which will be less fun/convenient.

Though for you, if the change is making you use half as many wings, that right there is a change you are going to feel to some extent at least. And even though you will be winging half as much, you will still spend the same total SP, so you're paying the same for half as much. In a way, you're getting hit twice as hard as I am.

Of course you might not mind that nearly as much as me, but to each their own. To me, is it most definitely not a non-issue.

[walkingwolfmike]

So, I still haven't seen any rational explanation why wings are going to cost both spellpoints AND charges. Almost all the talk so far has completely glossed over that point, and to me it's a very significant point. Don't the charges already prevent everything Turbine felt was overpowered, with the added "bonus" of also nerfing them in situations that weren't exploits or overpowered at all? Why is this the only ability in the game that should cost charges AND spellpoints? Rationally, it seems to me it should be one or the other, and the new charges mechanic seems to make the use of SP entirely redundant. But instead of changing the cost from SP to charges, they're adding charges and not just keeping the SP cost but actually doubling it?? It makes no sense to me, and is only going to discourage people, including myself, from using a fun ability in situations where it doesn't need to be discouraged.

If there absolutely must be both costs simultaneously for wings, which I think needs some explanation if that is the case because I'm not seeing it, then why does the SP cost need to double in addition to the other new restrictions being applied?

Yes. Curious as well.

It's not such a big deal. I do a lot of winging on my FvS, and SP is never an issue. Since I'll be able to wing less than half as much now, SP is even less of an issue even if the cost is doubled. So basically, the question you're raising is a non-issue.

No. Obviously it is NOT a non-issue. An explanation would be nice.

[picaisfun]

Sorry for your loss FvS

[dragon2fire]

This is good its part of the process not the change of wings mind you my stance on that is well known. But i was just thinking if no lam this would of just happened and the number of wings posts would be a good bit higher i would think.

.For the record i have not stopped posting about how much i hate it cause of turbines attempt at a comprise. I have stopped because there is no point in spamming.

[Faent]

Of course you might not mind that nearly as much as me, but to each their own. To me, is it most definitely not a non-issue.

I'm claiming that this is a non-issue because your SP pool should be just fine even if you wing constantly now. If you run into SP issues winging after the changes, then you're doing something else wrong. If you almost never wing now, then yes, your winging SP cost will go up. But that cost shouldn't hurt you at all, unless you're already doing something wrong.

In short, a FvS has never had (or should never have had) problems with SP when winging constantly. Since the changes enforce you spending less SP than you could have spent before, we don't have a problem here.

[FledglingPHNX]

Another voice to the outcry... First thing that has ever prompted me to care to voice my opinion. Favored Soul got me hooked on the game. I love the wings. Many people have made great points. Let's not add FvS Leap of Faith to the graveyard of things that were once very cool.

Lose the DoT spells, I'd gladly trade them for wings. When they got added it just made me think "Don't be WoW, please don't turn into WoW." If I wanted to play a differently flavored WoW I'd play Rift. Tried 'em - don't like 'em. I like DDO. A check of my characters will show just how much I enjoy playing FvS.

The last update saw some heavy-handed changes including an additional SP cost to the Heal spell. Compounding all these SP increases seems as though it starts down the path of making a Favored Soul a Cleric with less spell options who can't turn.

A post on page 39 of a sea of posts. Who cares, make your change, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Yalina]

FvS is OP, everyone should know that, cause what class is the last to fill in a raid? Divine. Why? Because they are just soloing them!

Instead of telling how overpowered the favored soul class, people just should roll one, and rule the world... Somehow, I dont see that happening... why? There is a lack of divines on all server, and nerfing something you really love in those divines won't help... At the end, there will be only guild runs, and u can PUG only Korthos... Congratz Turbine to step into the wrong direction.

[Viisari]

There is a lack of divines on all server, and nerfing something you really love in those divines won't help...

This isn't really true, it's more like that lots of divines like to run with guild and friends because they don't have to watch arseholes blame the healers because someone else screwed up or hear gimps whining how they died because they had no fort and 200hp at cap.

So it'd be more correct to say that there is a lack of healers pugging things. And that doesn't even concern epics really, most people running difficult epic content have a *much* more difficult time getting a good enough arcane than a healer, unless it's the arcanes party.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

I'm claiming that this is a non-issue because your SP pool should be just fine even if you wing constantly now. If you run into SP issues winging after the changes, then you're doing something else wrong. If you almost never wing now, then yes, your winging SP cost will go up. But that cost shouldn't hurt you at all, unless you're already doing something wrong.

In short, a FvS has never had (or should never have had) problems with SP when winging constantly. Since the changes enforce you spending less SP than you could have spent before, we don't have a problem here.

I do not generally have "SP issues", but I do like to stretch my SP pool as far as it can go without the use of consumables. So yes, if I wing at all it will hurt me.

For those who spend all their time running Shroud and Shavarath and IQ on normal, you're right they will never ever have problems with SP unless something else goes terribly wrong. That should also be true in guild groups on harder settings and raids. But when you really start to challenge yourself, running the game's hardest elites and epics, often shortman, sometimes solo or with pugs, then every spellpoint counts unless you have an overflowing wallet.

In my case, the changes enforce me spending more SP than I would have before, and nobody has even bothered to explain why, so we do have a problem here.

Is the non-spammable version of wings still so overpowered, even compared to abilities like Barbarian Rage, Smite Evil, Maximize, Quicken, Lay On Hands, Inspire Courage, Touch of Death, or DOTs, that it deserves to be the only ability in the game with a cost of both charges (or ki) AND spellpoints? Is it vastly overpowered compared to class abilities that cost nothing at all to use, like Divine Grace, capstone CLW/Searing Light, Sneak Attack, and Evasion? And if so (I'd like to know the "official" reasoning for that btw), is it really to the point where the SP cost needs to double? That is my question, and I think it is valid.

[Samadhi]

FvS is OP, everyone should know that, cause what class is the last to fill in a raid? Divine. Why? Because they are just soloing them!

Instead of telling how overpowered the favored soul class, people just should roll one, and rule the world... Somehow, I dont see that happening... why? There is a lack of divines on all server, and nerfing something you really love in those divines won't help... At the end, there will be only guild runs, and u can PUG only Korthos... Congratz Turbine to step into the wrong direction.

This is definitely an insightful point most have not hit on.

I'm not someone running out saying I'm going to cancel because of wing changes (although the Artificer thing might push me over).

However, I have already shelved my melees. This change will make me shelve my FvS. Hope all caster/bard runs are cool; because if I can't flutter around aimlessly to amuse myself, I have no plans on playing a divine. Big change from my two FvS's being in my top 5 favorite toons.

[Splatterfart]

What's unfortunate here is that simply extending the cooldown to something in the neighborhood of 30 seconds would've kept the favored souls from being upset that they're suddenly being saddled with a finite use of their wings. Because of the actions of 1 or 2 people a large pool of players are going to end up sadly disappointed.

[Bob_The_Terrible]

I vote against changing the wings ability.

[gloopygloop]

What's unfortunate here is that simply extending the cooldown to something in the neighborhood of 30 seconds would've kept the favored souls from being upset that they're suddenly being saddled with a finite use of their wings. Because of the actions of 1 or 2 people a large pool of players are going to end up sadly disappointed.

Changing the cooldown to 9 seconds was an even WORSE idea than the current 3 second cooldown/15 second recharge.

Changing the cooldown to 30 seconds would have meant one Wing per BB.

If you think that FvS players would have been happy with a 30 second cooldown, then you're completely misunderstanding why people are unhappy with this change.

[Faent]

What's unfortunate here is that simply extending the cooldown to something in the neighborhood of 30 seconds would've kept the favored souls from being upset that they're suddenly being saddled with a finite use of their wings. Because of the actions of 1 or 2 people a large pool of players are going to end up sadly disappointed.

Please don't give Eladrin more ideas about how to gut the FvS further.

[smatt]

Please don't give Eladrin more ideas about how to gut the FvS further.

So you're saying they're no longer "Favoured Souls" and perhaps just "Souls" Or maybe small "f" as in "fvS"

[Samadhi]

I vote against changing the wings ability.

Thank you for chiming in sir.

So often, I wish that Turbine WOULD set up more polls so that we could more accurately gauge player reaction. I know trying to get my friends in-game to come post their disgust on the forum is just a losing battle. So I always want to applaud someone that never posts for stopping in and adding their 2 cents.

[pHo3nix]

This is definitely an insightful point most have not hit on.

I'm not someone running out saying I'm going to cancel because of wing changes (although the Artificer thing might push me over).

However, I have already shelved my melees. This change will make me shelve my FvS. Hope all caster/bard runs are cool; because if I can't flutter around aimlessly to amuse myself, I have no plans on playing a divine. Big change from my two FvS's being in my top 5 favorite toons.

This, exactly. Healing, expecially Pugs, is not that fun. Fvs was my favorite class, now i'll probably try a cleric life then switch all my casters back to arcanes, then they'll probably nerf PM and wf self-healing so i will eventually quit

[dragon2fire]

This, exactly. Healing, expecially Pugs, is not that fun. Fvs was my favorite class, now i'll probably try a cleric life than switch all my casters back to arcanes, then they'll probably nerf PM and wf self-healing so i will eventually quit

I was just thinking along those same lines get my toons to arcane just in time for that nerf and then throw my hands in the air and say skip it.

[Flugzeug]

after this hits 100 pages and 10,000 more views, maybe we'll see bosses get anti leap of faith, abundant step, and wind dance spell/ability and the wings will go back to the way they were.

I also appreciate everyone who doesn't normally post in the forums when they post here just to show their concern.

To those of you who think this thread is in vain...for Update 10 there was a planned change to the crafting system that would use dreamspitters and chattering rings for shards in the cannith crafting. After tons of people spoke against this change, Turbine stopped the update and changed it. The same should happen here.

[Faent]

after this hits 100 pages and 10,000 more views, maybe we'll see bosses get anti leap of faith, abundant step, and wind dance spell/ability and the wings will go back to the way they were.

Heh. You think the DEVs will change their snap, spur of the moment decision? That's some serious optimism.