Wings wings wings: A Discussion

[crimsonrazac]

hey while you are changing timers on abilities you should make the pally smite have a 15 second recharge timer instead of 90

[Venny]

Congrats to omen on winning the thread!

I think the idea is good also..

But being it was my talk of wing clipping that started this evil.... What do I win?

heh.

Actaully my idea was more wing clipping while under the effects of things like chains, or other speed debuffs specificly in lord of blades.. and adding more of those to elite/epic lord of blades.. Hopefully those ideas aren't forgotten. As LoB is a challenging raid, and on elite/epic should really bring us to ur kneess.. But seems the more I run it on elite, the easier it seems, especially in regards to kiting the hounds. That can really be done without wings, and he chains so infrequently that 5 uses would actually be fine...

Dogs should get some kinda movement speed debuff.

Grrr you started this.... no more heals for you *pouts* I am just kidding there really as I will always love watching you deal out the damage.

Kiting is the problem... not my wings.... A bunch of people went in realized that Kiting was the way to beat him, and who are best at Kiting.... the Pay for Class or 2500 favor reward... Favoured Souls. So they returned with their Favoured souls. Not everyone is going to have Epic Gear like Greataxer or the Favoured souls that Did actually make the raid. Rangers can also Kite. Sorcs can kite, Wizards can kite... those are Free to play Classes... the only thing people play Fvs for is the wings. That was the only reason I fell in love with the class. I wanted wings.

We paid so that I could use my wings when ever I felt the need to wither it is flying around the harbor or across the trap pit in rainbow

[Inferno346]

How bout we give the Lord of Blades wings! And +45% run speed!

If bosses could catch up to us would kiting be a problem?

[LeLoric]

Indeed.

Why is the idea of chains stopping flying a bad idea? Esp is it is 'easy to code'. Makes the anti flying debuff raid specific and doesnt affect everyone's enjoyment in the other 99% of the game.

The amount of chaining a boss would have to cast to effectively stop this would be excessive for other player classes as it hurts them much more. Why should all players be punished by spam casting of chains due to one classes overpowered ability. Any change to frequency of casting chains I would consider a nerfing to all classes.

[jandhaer]

The eardweller is not easy to get,.

Actually it is. Myself and a guildy (both Wizards) pulled 3 eardwellers in 7 runs that took 4 minutes apiece. So I would say that its rather easy just have to have a little know how and start farming.

[Elaril]

Indeed.

Why is the idea of chains stopping flying a bad idea? Esp is it is 'easy to code'. Makes the anti flying debuff raid specific and doesnt affect everyone's enjoyment in the other 99% of the game.

Because Turbine is like a troubled teenager. They can't learn from mistakes, particularly their own, despite the continued advice of their parents. They continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.

They sat in on a couple of raid completions/attemps, perpetrated by those who are not at all similar in skill and ability to invest playtime to their general playerbase, on a test server where the cost of resource usage is nonexistent, and have decided that it is again time to nerf a class. How many players are willing to drink ten to fifteen potions per completion on the live server in a raid that they are going to run in the hundreds of times? This simply does not happen. First time completions? Sure. Learning runs? Sure. But for grinding a raid. Not on your life.

[Rizzyn]

The amount of chaining a boss would have to cast to effectively stop this would be excessive for other player classes as it hurts them much more. Why should all players be punished by spam casting of chains due to one classes overpowered ability. Any change to frequency of casting chains I would consider a nerfing to all classes.

But if "KITING" is the problem, then the Nerf needs to hit ALL classes, or at least those that can "Fly" away. Shade has just stated you don't need the wings. Others have said that a properly buffed and equipped Ranger can just backpedal all day. The problem is not Wings. If the underlying reason is Kiting, which no Dev has yet to confirm, then altering the ability will not stop, delay, fold, spindle or otherwise mutilate the tactic. Someone else will simply do the kiting, as it was done before the advent of the Favored Soul. My Wings have never been a deciding factor in any Raid I have been on.

Besides which, a debuff can focus on just those with wings, as would a "Heavy Gravity" effect. It didn't slow us down in Dreaming Dark, just kept us from flying off, and that would avoid Nerfing everyone rather neatly.

You just ran with a Stalwart Defender and found some issues. Shade talked about having 3 tanks to share the load, and transfer aggro to better manage healing/damage absorption and other parts of the Raid, as well as Kiting the Hounds as it was most effective -- even without Wings. Why is this the solution?

[Elaril]

How bout we give the Lord of Blades wings! And +45% run speed!

If bosses could catch up to us would kiting be a problem?

How about keeping it simple, just give mobs that the developers feel should not be kited the ability to chain pull/teleport/whatever, the object of his aggro back to them, and let them use it frequently.

[Venny]

Actually it is. Myself and a guildy (both Wizards) pulled 3 eardwellers in 7 runs that took 4 minutes apiece. So I would say that its rather easy just have to have a little know how and start farming.

Really? Then that was luck because the guy that farmed for the Dweller I got ran EoT 59 times before it dropped on Elite and he did that cause he was bored.

[jandhaer]

Simple Nerf my Wings and I will nerf the money I send you each month.

FvS are my Faves, MAIN reason the wings, its just fun to zoom around and make little feathers fly, see what the tallest thing I can get on top of and WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE all the way down

[wiglin]

Actually it is. Myself and a guildy (both Wizards) pulled 3 eardwellers in 7 runs that took 4 minutes apiece. So I would say that its rather easy just have to have a little know how and start farming.

I am fully aware of the nice easy tactic of using open lock and a caster for the quickest run. It is still however a random luck pull. I looted 2 sos scrolls in less than 100 kills does that mean it is easy to get? If so why is it still the second highest in value scroll?

[mikemattd50]

Really? Then that was luck because the guy that farmed for the Dweller I got ran EoT 59 times before it dropped on Elite and he did that cause he was bored.

it drops better in elite DD then EoT

[Xioden]

Really? Then that was luck because the guy that farmed for the Dweller I got ran EoT 59 times before it dropped on Elite and he did that cause he was bored.

If you're farming Eye of the Titan you're doing it wrong.

[jandhaer]

Really? Then that was luck because the guy that farmed for the Dweller I got ran EoT 59 times before it dropped on Elite and he did that cause he was bored.

Well thats the problem I would NEVER farm EoT for an eardweller IT takes FOREVER you have to do the entire quest which is what like 20 minutes at least? Why do that when you can just run 4 minutes or so of Dreaming Dark see if its there, if not recall and try again...

[Venny]

If you're farming Eye of the Titan you're doing it wrong.

As I said the Dweller that I got, the guy that gave it to me Farmed 59 times cause he was 'bored'
I would also like to point out that Iq1 and iq2 is a pack and not everyone has it or wants to own it

[jandhaer]

I am fully aware of the nice easy tactic of using open lock and a caster for the quickest run. It is still however a random luck pull. I looted 2 sos scrolls in less than 100 kills does that mean it is easy to get? If so why is it still the second highest in value scroll?

Umm ya actually SoS scroll is pretty easy to get too, especially compared to the shard. As far as 2nd highest value Im pretty sure there is no finite cost of anything so whateves. I pulled 2 gloves of the claw scroll in back to back kills awhile ago so maybe I am lucky but meh regardless truth is your buddy did it wrong :P

[Kabaon]

Kiting is nothing new in MMO's. Hell I'm sure the current (or was it always) king of MMO's (WoW) has content in which you have kite or die moments. So I don't understand exactly why this is an issue (Don't blame DoT's, because thats not really the problem. If the people can heal themselves fine, and don't kite, doesn't that make them hate tanks?). And not everything can be tanked, or it can be given enough hp and damage mitigation (ToD Shadowfiends are strong examples, even some epic mobs).

[wiglin]

I am lucky but meh regardless truth is your buddy did it wrong :P

You must have me confused with someone else?

[LeLoric]

But if "KITING" is the problem, then the Nerf needs to hit ALL classes, or at least those that can "Fly" away. Shade has just stated you don't need the wings. Others have said that a properly buffed and equipped Ranger can just backpedal all day. The problem is not Wings. If the underlying reason is Kiting, which no Dev has yet to confirm, then altering the ability will not stop, delay, fold, spindle or otherwise mutilate the tactic. Someone else will simply do the kiting, as it was done before the advent of the Favored Soul. My Wings have never been a deciding factor in any Raid I have been on.

Besides which, a debuff can focus on just those with wings, as would a "Heavy Gravity" effect. It didn't slow us down in Dreaming Dark, just kept us from flying off, and that would avoid Nerfing everyone rather neatly.

You just ran with a Stalwart Defender and found some issues. Shade talked about having 3 tanks to share the load, and transfer aggro to better manage healing/damage absorption and other parts of the Raid, as well as Kiting the Hounds as it was most effective -- even without Wings. Why is this the solution?

The bigger problem was kiting the boss who is super fast and the hounds and having other casters/dotters dps while any melee just stand and watch the show. This is the best way to do the raid by far as it's easy and poses the least threat of failure.

Shades suggestions are what to do if not kiting everything. If the kiting of everything isn't put in check then shade's suggestions would never come into play and melees would never find a way into the raid.

Leap of Faith has two uses really, first is to move around faster and generally is nothing more than a convienence factor. The second is to continually kite extremely dangerous mobs allowing fs to continually avoid danger while using bb/dp to dps down the mob. Sad that the second funcion which does need to be reeled in may prevent some of the versatility of the first but sometimes that happens. Get a pendant of time and run around everywhere liek the other classes do.

Some of the very best players in this game play fs and refer to them as the "easy button." Why? Because of Leap of Faith.

Changing a Boss to throw more chains around is counterproductive to all the other classes and forces them to eat the brunt of the changes. Sometimes you just got to sit up and take your nerf bat swings like a man because they are warranted and then just say "thank you sir may I have another"

[wiglin]

Umm ya actually SoS scroll is pretty easy to get too, :P

Let me rephrase, yes it is easy to get, however to say that it drops frequently would not be true. Scrolls on average drop 1 per 100 kills, to get 2 sos scrolls in less than that is not the norm. I will retract the word easy and replace it with time frame. The normal time frame can be quite long on the sos scroll, eardweller, and every other item that is a random chance of percentage each time you open a chest. If an item has a 10% chance of dropping, it is 10% each time you open the chest. That does not mean you will get 1 our of 10 opens. You could never see it because its the same 10% each time.