When to TR?

[Llewndyn]

So it happens every time: I get to 20, start running epics, realize I'm grinding for level 20 stuff that I can't use until I hit level 20 again, which is mind boggling, and I usually end up wondering if I can stay interested long enough to run shrouds and get the cleansers (yes I am that lazy) for the 438920893048302 GS items I have started/ gimped. I then out of frustration/ excitement over my newer build TR and then remember I don't have any other toons anywhere near level 20.

This time I am hoping is gonna be different. I got a level 18 toon and a few others I can level pretty quickly, and I am real excited about my first multiple TR but wanted to know if I was in the vast minority. People talk all the time about all the stuff they are going to get done before they TR - get all the gear mapped out so they never have to buy anything, have all these weapon sets and stuff already organized, etc., but is that what's really happening? How many of you out there are 100% geared out and ready to go when you TR? I find as I am running epics and waiting to get off timer for stupid shroud I am getting boreder and boreder, and for me it seems to just make more sense to go ahead now while I am still excited about it, just wondering if that is the norm so I can feel like less of a nerdicle.

On another note, I heard when I TR again that my TR cache will be cleaned empty. Is this true? I am ashamed to say for a while I forgot I even had one and have on more than one occasion bought something I had in said cache... do I need to empty that out before I TR or will my new **** get added to the olde ****?

Thanks for listening/reading/listening to someone read this to you...

[r3dl4nce]

Before doing TR, you must empty the old Reincarnation Cache.

I think the best time to do TR is when you have GS weapon and sp or hp item ready for next life.... They'll be too much useful at level 11-12

[eruhuan]

On another note, I heard when I TR again that my TR cache will be cleaned empty. Is this true? I am ashamed to say for a while I forgot I even had one and have on more than one occasion bought something I had in said cache... do I need to empty that out before I TR or will my new **** get added to the olde ****?

Thanks for listening/reading/listening to someone read this to you...

During my last TR, (~2 to 3 days ago), it required me that I need to clear the TR cache first before I can proceed.

[grayham]

Hey llew.

I would recommend it, great experience. I didn't plan the gear too heavily until it came to BTC stuff I could use -Bloodstone FTW! The best part for me is being a much better player on the early quests. Build points + PL feats are noticeable too, gives you an edge. Yes, the grind is bigger but it's a lot of fun.

Which class are you leaving/taking etc?

[Dark_Knight_Silver]

I think pre-gearing is boring. I also think the time is right for you to TR.

I read somewhere that its supposed to get added to the new cache but hey I also read that turning in 20 epic tokens(as listed in the compendium) was bound to acct rather than character. I was wrong in that instance(there are no typos in DDO) so I would empty your TR cache just to be on the safe side

[Thrudh]

You do need to clear out your TR cache before you TR again.

I wouldn't bother spending too much time on epics on a character that you plan to TR...

I would highly recommend at least one good Shroud Tier III GS weapon (Lightning II or Mineral II are probably the two best choices), and a couple of Shroud GS clickables...

Having two haste clickables and two displacement clickables are huge helps when leveling. Those and a planar gird are pretty much my only requirements before I TR.

However, other raid gear is nice too.

If you can fit in nine runs of ToD, that is very helpful... By then you should have all the belts and necklaces you want, and hopefully 1 or 2 rings that can be upgraded using 9 trophies...

But really, I'm good to go with the GS clickables, and a good weapon (For a caster, replace that with a GS +9 stat item, and a GS Spell Point item)

[Ryan220]

When I TRd my Fighter into a Warchanter (my first TR) I made sure I had a Conc Opp item, HP item and a Min2 and Lit2 Greataxe.

Those 4 items have made things so much smoother.

If I was TRing again I cant think of anything else Id to add, but I probably wouldnt worry about a Min2 though


Edit added......things like Planar Girds and stat items I just borrowed off of my other toons

[WirelessJoe]

...

If you can fit in nine runs of ToD, that is very helpful... By then you should have all the belts and necklaces you want, and hopefully 1 or 2 rings that can be upgraded using 9 trophies...

You are one lucky SOB if you get the rings you want in 9 ToD runs. I'm on my second life and still haven't pulled or won a Ravager ring.

[voodoogroves]

I've gone both ways. Anecdotal evidence here for two TRs I have going currently ... both happen to be FVS.


I've got one toon I ran to all the 20s on, cleansed one item, made a few others, farmed out the DQ/VON/HoX/Reaver/VoD/etc. gear I thought I reasonably needed and went to town. He's a beast. I love the HP buffer, haste clickies, etc. After I run him, the thought of leveling another first-life toon is painful. He's a multi-TR. The downer to playing him is the speed of leveling ... it does become noticable and the gear may help be successful, but it isn't the biggest factor ... that's simply time. That said, the thought of doing a 2nd TR and not having the great gear would be deflating.


At the same time I'm leveling another TR (first TR). I TR'd him with one set of raid gear - Tharnes Goggles. He's a different race, so can't use his old DT. No shroud HP or SP items at all. Still, he feels like he levels plenty fast enough and, truth be told, I've not found myself missing the HP / SP items, Torc, etc. that my other toon has as much as I thought I would. In stead, I've geared him out with BTA and related gear from the new chains once he hit raid-loot-levels and honestly, he's pretty darn capable. Yes, I intend to make him a SP item and an HP item and a GS weapon or two ... but the difference in speed of leveling makes it less painful and far less noticable.



So ... the gear is noticable ... but on a TR1, not so much. You'll hit the raids, etc. plenty. I wouldn't let that stop me before doing a first TR if you had other reasons for doing so. The 2nd I listed above I TR'd to level with two friends of mine who were TRing more "main" characters.


If you've got some compelling reason to TR, I wouldn't necessarily wait on the gear.

[Llewndyn]

Hey llew.

I would recommend it, great experience. I didn't plan the gear too heavily until it came to BTC stuff I could use -Bloodstone FTW! The best part for me is being a much better player on the early quests. Build points + PL feats are noticeable too, gives you an edge. Yes, the grind is bigger but it's a lot of fun.

Which class are you leaving/taking etc?

And no I am not following any real plan or anything, like everything in life I just kind of play it by ear, but this is kinda sorta what I'm gonna do:

1st life - human Cleric *sniff, I loved playing cleric
2nd (current) life - human Sorcerer
3rd - WF bard virtuoso - and yes I am building the entire thing around my impressive collection of BTA/ BTC docents (quorforged docent of battle!) that I somehow got on my human toons but have yet to see on my WF ones.

order may change, but:
4th - paladin (hate melees)
5th - rogue (already have tons of gear)
6th - wizard
7th through whatever - mix it up a melee and a caster every other one

[Llewndyn]

You do need to clear out your TR cache before you TR again.

I wouldn't bother spending too much time on epics on a character that you plan to TR...

I would highly recommend at least one good Shroud Tier III GS weapon (Lightning II or Mineral II are probably the two best choices), and a couple of Shroud GS clickables...

Having two haste clickables and two displacement clickables are huge helps when leveling. Those and a planar gird are pretty much my only requirements before I TR.

However, other raid gear is nice too.

If you can fit in nine runs of ToD, that is very helpful... By then you should have all the belts and necklaces you want, and hopefully 1 or 2 rings that can be upgraded using 9 trophies...

But really, I'm good to go with the GS clickables, and a good weapon (For a caster, replace that with a GS +9 stat item, and a GS Spell Point item)

I have run ToD once. Total. EVER. I have been grinding for boot ings (ground? Grunding? That one sounds right) for a week and I am getting tired of it, so am gonna go another life without running it methinks. Also heard as a sorc I am useless unless I got 38 DC, then heard I need 3 lives as a wizard to hit those kinds of numbers, which I do not plan to do. I can hit 35dcs on enchantment stuff, 32-33 on the rest, so epics are out for me, got told to just explain to epic party leaders that I don't have the DCs but am happy to be a buff bot; well, I'm not. I got Ring of Ancestors and tier 3 bracers, saw how short I was on ings for conc opp goggles (got em to tier 2 and have everything but sulf stones) and that has now turned into a journey rather than an urgent destination, was gonna make an axe for my next life as a WF bard virtuoso but I think I'm just gonna TR while I'm still enjoying myself. Stupid boot ingredients!

[Thrudh]

You are one lucky SOB if you get the rings you want in 9 ToD runs. I'm on my second life and still haven't pulled or won a Ravager ring.

Oh I didn't say "the ring you want"... I just said in 9 runs hopefully you'll have "a" ring, any ring.

I don't have the ToD rings I want on ANY of my characters yet, and I've run ToD about 40 times...

I do, however, have a +4 Dex tome that sits in my bank. What a waste.

[Therigar]

So it happens every time: I get to 20, start running epics, realize I'm grinding for level 20 stuff that I can't use until I hit level 20 again

Stupid isn't it.

This is why I've said before that Turbine needs to build quests that are designed to take characters on genuinely epic adventures.

My recommendation was that they open a server just for epic adventuring and that they populate it with entirely new quests and quest lines. Access would be an option on reaching L20 where, instead of reincarnating, a character ascends to epic status and leaves the mortal world forever. The character is transferred to the new server and joins others to surmount the most implausible and impossible quests that the developers can envision.

It makes having all that epic gear meaningful and gives players something to do besides just grinding the same thing another 20 or 40 or 60 times. Maybe even allow the characters to advance in epic levels to L50.

Instead, look forward to more grind and more repetition.

[Thrudh]

I've gone both ways. Anecdotal evidence here for two TRs I have going currently ... both happen to be FVS.


I've got one toon I ran to all the 20s on, cleansed one item, made a few others, farmed out the DQ/VON/HoX/Reaver/VoD/etc. gear I thought I reasonably needed and went to town. He's a beast. I love the HP buffer, haste clickies, etc. After I run him, the thought of leveling another first-life toon is painful. He's a multi-TR. The downer to playing him is the speed of leveling ... it does become noticable and the gear may help be successful, but it isn't the biggest factor ... that's simply time. That said, the thought of doing a 2nd TR and not having the great gear would be deflating.


At the same time I'm leveling another TR (first TR). I TR'd him with one set of raid gear - Tharnes Goggles. He's a different race, so can't use his old DT. No shroud HP or SP items at all. Still, he feels like he levels plenty fast enough and, truth be told, I've not found myself missing the HP / SP items, Torc, etc. that my other toon has as much as I thought I would. In stead, I've geared him out with BTA and related gear from the new chains once he hit raid-loot-levels and honestly, he's pretty darn capable. Yes, I intend to make him a SP item and an HP item and a GS weapon or two ... but the difference in speed of leveling makes it less painful and far less noticable.



So ... the gear is noticable ... but on a TR1, not so much. You'll hit the raids, etc. plenty. I wouldn't let that stop me before doing a first TR if you had other reasons for doing so. The 2nd I listed above I TR'd to level with two friends of mine who were TRing more "main" characters.


If you've got some compelling reason to TR, I wouldn't necessarily wait on the gear.

Yeah, this is a good breakdown... First TR, not quite as necessary to be all geared out... Second TR and beyond, I'd probably want to have at least 75% of my gear before TRing.

[r3dl4nce]

Also heard as a sorc I am useless unless I got 38 DC

Strange, without epic gear you should be able to reach 38, with epic gear you'll go past 40. Max cha (20 if you go drow, 18 human+1 human adapatability cha), all level ups in cha, find a greater enhancement focus item, get a spell focus enhancement feat and youd have a good DC. I could be wrong on DC, i'm not a caster expert.
But you can't have exceptional CHA on ToD rings if you are not allowed to run ToD lol... And as a sorcerer you can go in last ToD fight without boots of anchoring, just grab the Threnal cloack and/or some spell absorption gems

[voodoogroves]

I have run ToD once. Total. EVER. I have been grinding for boot ings (ground? Grunding? That one sounds right) for a week and I am getting tired of it, so am gonna go another life without running it methinks. Also heard as a sorc I am useless unless I got 38 DC, then heard I need 3 lives as a wizard to hit those kinds of numbers, which I do not plan to do. I can hit 35dcs on enchantment stuff, 32-33 on the rest, so epics are out for me, got told to just explain to epic party leaders that I don't have the DCs but am happy to be a buff bot; well, I'm not. I got Ring of Ancestors and tier 3 bracers, saw how short I was on ings for conc opp goggles (got em to tier 2 and have everything but sulf stones) and that has now turned into a journey rather than an urgent destination, was gonna make an axe for my next life as a WF bard virtuoso but I think I'm just gonna TR while I'm still enjoying myself. Stupid boot ingredients!

Dude, you don't need to hit those big numbers to do epics. Maybe to do CC in epics, but honestly you don't need the big numbers.

I've been running the house P ones on a series of my characters since the update is going to be changing some of the items ... and I can tell you that you can get all the way to the bosses in Partycrashers with zero CC at all, spell-based DPS is fine. Snitch is a bit easier with instakills for the casters, but even with some moderately gimp DCs you can go pretty far with the debuffs first (mind fog, solid fog, cloudkill, circle of death, etc.) One thing about the spell pass is that I find I do use the debuffs pretty frequently. A CC caster is handy for Big Top, but a second sorc in there is just moar-DPS.

I also do the Red Fens when I can; you don't need any CC at all to solo Fathom the Depths or Claw ... once you learn them.

I'm saying this as a complete gimp player. My toons aren't uber-geared and as a player I'm a slow and dim-witted. I play on a crappy machine too.



You're on G-land right? If you see an LFM of mine for an "Epic, In progress" for the house P / Fens / etc. don't be afraid to click it.

[Thrudh]

Stupid boot ingredients!

Yeah, I usually buy mine... I'm not good at grinding out anything... Probably the only thing I've ever been good at grinding is the Shroud and the Vale quests...

I hate grinding for a random drop... because if it doesn't drop, you're no closer to getting it... Grinding Shroud is easier for me... Because every run, I get SOMETHING... So I'm always getting closer...

And Shroud can always be used to make plat... So if I want a boot ingrediant, I'll just do a couple of Shrouds, 12 chests of loot, and I'll sell my Shroud ingrediants, and I'll buy the boot ingrediant.

[Thrudh]

Instead, look forward to more grind and more repetition.

This your first MMO?

[Llewndyn]

Strange, without epic gear you should be able to reach 38, with epic gear you'll go past 40. Max cha (20 if you go drow, 18 human+1 human adapatability cha), all level ups in cha, find a greater enhancement focus item, get a spell focus enhancement feat and youd have a good DC. I could be wrong on DC, i'm not a caster expert.
But you can't have exceptional CHA on ToD rings if you are not allowed to run ToD lol... And as a sorcerer you can go in last ToD fight without boots of anchoring, just grab the Threnal cloack and/or some spell absorption gems

I started with 18 methinks, and I have only eaten a +1 tome, so that might contribute, got shart of Xoriat and +2 CHA bracers, got spell pen 8, blah blah blah, outside of a random +3 or +4 tome dropping (which I noted in another thread I have played for 2 years and NEVER seen one drop) how do I hit those numbers? I'm genuinely interested. MyDDO Llewndyn and tell me where I erred. I think I put too much into DEX because someone told me it gave me enough AC to be useful, but then that should point to how little I know about any of this.

Also, the items you speak of point to how frustrating it is to hit that number. I HAVE to have a Major Lightning Lore item, right? That's one weapon slot taken up. For the other I am using the epic ornamental buccaneer thingy. I got spell pen 8 on my DT robes, I found NO way to get all of the CHA increases while ALSO getting the spell pen increases AND getting all the elemental school increases AND toughness feats so I am not as squishy as your average caster. I am genuinely not arguing. I am wondering what I can do/buy/insult people into giving me that will help above and beyond what I got. Sadly it is a moot point as I am gonna TR tonight out of sheer frustration.

I dislike grind, but accept that it's necessary. I will grind, but a little light at the end of the tunnel would be nice. When I run weapons shipment so much I no longer get xp for it, and I have given out 5 baubles but have yet to get any boot ings, same goes for wrath, ugh.

[Thrudh]

18 CHA + 5 level ups + 6 item + 1 tome + 3 CHA enhancements + 3 exceptional CHA (from Shroud item or ToD ring) = 36

Spell DC = 10 + spell level + CHA modifier + DC items + Spell Focus feats

Spell level will be 9 for all spells if you have Heighten on (maybe this is the issue... Do you have the Heighten feat?)

So 10 + 9 + 13 (36 CHA) + 2 (Enchantment and Necromancy items are available in the new quests) + 1/2 (hard to afford two Spell Focus Feats on a sorc) = 35/36

+2 CHA airship gives you another +1... a +3 tome would give you another +1, wizard active past life feat is another +1

FYI, casting hypno gives all mobs -3 to their will saves, so thats like another +3 DC when using Enchantment spells... I always cast hypno first, then mass hold...