18/2 barb/rogue questions about trap skills and evasion

[rakhtal]

I want to tr my paladin into half orc 18/2 barbarian/rogue but I cant decide on a final build.
I take rogue levels mostly for umd, because I like being self sufficient but i thought that if I'm taking them I could get some trap skills as well.

My first plan was 20str/8dex/16con/12int/8wis/8cha
This allows me with +2 int tome to max search, dd and umd, but my spot and open lock will be almost non existant, as well as my balance, and my reflex save is low

If I go 18/12/16/12/9/9 or 20/12/14/12/8/8 that gives me +2 to my reflex save but hurts either my strength or con and im not sure if it's worth getting it.
According to planer my reflex in this variant is +10 at level 20. With +6 dex item, +5 resistance and gh thats only 20 reflex save. Im not sure if it's worth it.

Other variant is 20/8/14/14/8/8 or 18/8/16/14/9/9
That would give me another skill point to put into open lock to make it viable.

So my questions are:
Is it worth raising dex to get higher reflex save?
Is it worth raising int to get another skill point?
Do I need to max dd and search or can I put some points in open lock for example, and how high my open lock should be to be somewhat usefull?
(getting +15 skill items is not a problem and I'll be able to get gh with clickies or scrolls)
I dont need those skill to be high enough to disable every trap in the game, but I dont want to discover at level 20 that I wasted tons of skill points and cant do anything anyway.

Thanks for any advice

[kuro_zero]

For evasion, mid 30s reflex save is preferable. Unlocking Madness from the new quest series will give you a +10 (non stacking, so net +5 gain) this does mean using one of the armors that drops there.

UMD is great for self sufficiency but realize that you will meed to dismiss your rage to UMD anything.

Horc penalty to INT means the next bump to get another skill point will cost 4 build points. Not worth it.

Majority of the locks in game have a very low DC and you can't blow them up so of patient you can retry until you get that high roll. 4 ranks from first level rogue and 28 dex (+9) have not encountered a lock i coukdnt open. some may take a few tries.

I think this build has better synergy with TWF barbs (not many around from what I see) as they have decent dex (15+2 tome) for the TWF feats.

Also, not 100%, but I think you need to dismiss rage before you can search/disable traps. The splash is for evasion and skills like balance and UMD for race restricted.

Human extra skill point per level makes your concept easier, plus no penalty to starting INT.

With 8 starting dex, max reflex save I see for you is:
6 (barb levels) +3 (rogue levels) - 1 (start dex penalty) +3 (+6 item) +5 (resistance) +4 (gh) + 1 (haste) + 2 (good luck) = 23
+1 (ship dex buff) + 1 (yugo pot) +5 (unlocked madness upgrade) + 3 (i think, shroud exceptional save bonus) = 33

Maybe some other sources I cant recall ATM. Best to have first line total mid 30s, IMO. Hopefully makes it easier for you to figure out if evasion is worth it.

[KutchemesTheDark]

How can you give skill points umd,dd and search at same time ? What abaout balance and intimidate ?

[karl_k0ch]

Open Locks and Spot are the ones you can afford to dump, actually. I recommend keeping Search and DD at the maximal level if you plan to be a reliable disarmer.

OL allows multiple tries, as it has no critical failure.
Spot can be substituted by trap box knowledge, either through memory, the ddowiki or fellow party members.

Consider also skipping rogue skills altogether, except for UMD and a few spare points in OL, going for base Int, Max Str, high Con and a mediocre Dex. The latter is to ensure that you get some mileage out of your evasion feat.
This would be the most combat-focused and least versatile option. But then, no one is expecting that a Barb with 2 Rogue levels can do the traps. It's nice to have, but no one will blame you if you are not a trapmonkey.

[Trowa88]

Was planning something similar for Umd, some utility, evasion and haste boost.

Personally was just going to max umd and open lock.

Don't forget you get a big bonus +6 to reflex saves vs traps as a barbarian from trap sense, in addition to enhancments you can take (rogue trap sense I boosts that to +8) and improved uncanny dodge gives you an extra +6 to reflex for when you click on it (and lets face it, you wont be using it for the ac boost).

That puts you into a situational 34 reflex save which can be easily self buffed to 37 with recitation wands and haste, not enough to dance around in epic traps but nothing to laugh at either.

Not going to help you out with the odd fireball to the face though...

[Forzah]

I suggest to do this build on a dwarf instead. It works a lot better for several reasons:

-No intelligence penalty
-Extra constitution enhancements so that you can lower con and invest in dexterity.
-+2 search from a free dwarven feat
-Dwarven spell defense. It increases your reflex save vs spells by 5.

The 12 starting int is enough to max out search, disable and umd and leaves a couple of points for open lock, balance and jump. For open lock you only need 4 ranks or so. My dwarven barb has a reflex save vs spells of 33 and vs traps of 38, before buffs. With buffs and uncanny dodge, you can get trap saves close to 50, which is enough for most content. Disable and search should be in the mid-high 50's fully buffed and geared. My UMD is 44 with a GH. I do use a +3 reflex save shroud item.


On my 32 point build, the starting stats are:
18str/15dex/14con/12int/8wis/6cha
and geared:
40str/26dex/32con/20int/18wis/16cha

On a 34 point build you could take 2 more con.

[rakhtal]

Just wanted to thank everyone who responded. I still have some time to think about the build before I tr (5 more shrouds to do for a chance at +3 tome) but your responses were definitely helpfull.

[Uchuujin-San]

one aspect to consider if you're staying with THF is to take 18 barb/1 rog/1 Ftr. you do lose out on evasion but you gain a valuable feat on a feat starved class. And with needing a base reflex save in the 20's and 30's buffed to save on leet, it might not be worth it for that second rog lvl.

also consider human. you get a free feat and with the new buff to human versatility (if you can fit it in) coupled with haste boost could more than make up for the 4 less str from HOrc, plus you don't need to have higher int due to the extra skill point inherent to humans.

[Chaoscheerio]

Been looking to TR my rogue into something like this... Thanks for the ideas
One thing I'm curious about is being able to fit in the rogue past life :/