Race Selection for Artificer

[Musouka]

Helfs will make good arties too if you get 14 ch to start and take the pally/FvS dilettante they will beable to self heal as well.

wouldn't you be able to self heal with UMD anyway?

[KreepyKritter]

I'm personally going Elf for my first run-through, full-specc Arcane Fluidity to negate ASF, and I'd also like to see if they qualify for Aerenal Arcanum enhancements (because I'm curious)

As well, it opens up a number of martial weapon proficiencies (rapier specifically, for finesse built melee)

I may change my tune once it goes live, and drink the WF Kool-Aid, but for now I'm sticking to my guns.

[Unsure1]

I took Half Elf with the barb dil for the dr. at lvl 6 i have 119hp and 2dr not to mention my pet has 5dr and 160hp abouts.

[Samadhi]

Dwarf.

Far as self healing goes a lot of people seem to be missing the fact they get cure spells too.

Yea cure spells that use potions and have lower limits, but they are still full on cure-mass spells, with very low SP cost, which you can fully apply metas, enhancements, and even a special feat to further boost them. I tested them briefly and they seemed to work pretty nice too. They also cure your pet. Also unlike repair spells - they ignore arcane spell failure.

So the WF-Repair thing while nice - isn't quite as big as you may think.

re: Stats. Seems like a no brainer to me:
Str - They suck at melee, so not a priority.. Maybe 2 points so you can carry lots of bolts and loot.
Dex - This is kinda the trick stat.. Youd think since they are good with crossbows youd want some.. But really you should dump it because they get a spel to replace dex with Int for attack rolls. They also have really poor reflex saves without much way to boost it other then taking insightful reflexes.. So pretty much nothing uses dex.
Wis - saves and spot skill.. low priority.
Cha - they get really killer UMD anyways, maybe put 2 points.

So pretty simple stats distribution thats quite hard to argue:
Max Int = 16 points
Max con -2 = 10 points
Leaves you 6 on a 32pnt build.. spread into str/wis/cha as you see fit.
On a tr, max con and spread rest into str/wis/cha as you see fit.

This is actually a lot like what I was leaning towards at work today, with a bit more priority on Str, but a max Int dwarf with the rest of the points in con/str.

[Samadhi]

I'm personally going Elf for my first run-through, full-specc Arcane Fluidity to negate ASF, and I'd also like to see if they qualify for Aerenal Arcanum enhancements (because I'm curious)

As well, it opens up a number of martial weapon proficiencies (rapier specifically, for finesse built melee)

I may change my tune once it goes live, and drink the WF Kool-Aid, but for now I'm sticking to my guns.

Oh I didn't even think of weapon proficiencies... what do Artificers get for weapon proficiencies?

[Dcloak]

Oh I didn't even think of weapon proficiencies... what do Artificers get for weapon proficiencies?

Crossbows, repeaters, and simple weapons.

Although you can get master's touch spell at level 1.

[hit_fido]

Dwarf.

This is what early WotC material had to say about artificer:

races: Dwarves were the first artificers, combining their race's
crafting skills with magic. Other races likely to produce artificers
include humans, eladrin, gnomes, and warforged.

http://www.wizards.com/files/365_Artificer.pdf

I expected there to be some special racial enhancements for dwarven artificers, naturally I was disappointed.

But yeah, dwarf!

[Failedlegend]

A couple facts

- You need 19 base dex for Improved precise shot...so minimum 17 dex with a +2 tome.

- Any Race can be a construct just take construct essence a special arty feat so any race can self-heal and use the construct specific spells.

- Arty's get Rapid Reload, Weapon Prof: G-Xbow, LRXBOW & HRBOW for free (and simple weapons)

- Extend DOES NOT work on Arty spells

- Stats

Str: Pointless leave at 8
Dex: 17+ is your to-hit if your missing stuff your doing ZERO damage..also is prereq for most ranged feats
Con: 14+ basically fort saves and hp but you do ZERO Damage/Buffing if your dead
Int: 16+ This is your casting stat and it will be your damage stat once you get Lvl 3 spells as you get a spell that lets you apply your INt to damage
Wis: Dump this
Cha: Dump this..unless you got a point or two left over that won't go in Dex, Con or Int

[FrozenNova]

Dex - This is kinda the trick stat.. Youd think since they are good with crossbows youd want some.. But really you should dump it because they get a spel to replace dex with Int for attack rolls. They also have really poor reflex saves without much way to boost it other then taking insightful reflexes.. So pretty much nothing uses dex.

Insightful damage and insightful strikes are mutually exclusive, as I understand it.
You can have +int to hit or +int to dam. And generally speaking +int to dam is what you want. So you need some dex to hit.
Moreover, you're likely to want some dex for improved precise shot.

[Valakai]

Helf with rogue dilettante. +3d6 SA damage is nothing to sneeze at or WF for good self healing. (fleshies get self healing too but not nearly as good as WF)

And as helf you also get HV with the buff that is given to damage boost this is also nice as you can have arti dam boost and hv dam boost. (they dont stack but you get enough boosts to be boosted almost all the time.)

And if you are planning on mainly xbowing then I would definately not dump dex since you want to use insightful damage buff.

[Mjesko]

Str - They suck at melee, so not a priority.. Maybe 2 points so you can carry lots of bolts and loot.
Dex - This is kinda the trick stat.. Youd think since they are good with crossbows youd want some.. But really you should dump it because they get a spel to replace dex with Int for attack rolls. They also have really poor reflex saves without much way to boost it other then taking insightful reflexes.. So pretty much nothing uses dex.
Wis - saves and spot skill.. low priority.
Cha - they get really killer UMD anyways, maybe put 2 points.

So pretty simple stats distribution thats quite hard to argue:
Max Int = 16 points
Max con -2 = 10 points
Leaves you 6 on a 32pnt build.. spread into str/wis/cha as you see fit.
On a tr, max con and spread rest into str/wis/cha as you see fit.

I think its easy to argue about the distribution , because instead of Int for attack an Artificer could use Dex for attack and Int for damage with the Insightful Damage spell. Thats the reason why Drow Artificers could be interesting, too.

[Igrovin]

For me, I go Human and then take Mark of Finding.

Seriously.. 3 chances a rest for free wands? (Then it quickly builds up to 5 or more..) Since arts also get masters touch they can use almost any weapon that drops out too. (sometimes exotic drops)

[Failedlegend]

Thats the reason why Drow Artificers could be interesting, too.

If you only have 28pt builds drow are godlike for artys/ mech rogues (or a mix of the two) if you have 32pt Human, H-Elf (Human if you need the feat, H-Elf if you don't) and Halfling are much better choices

For me, I go Human and then take Mark of Finding.

Seriously.. 3 chances a rest for free wands? (Then it quickly builds up to 5 or more..)

What are you talking abut the DM of finding doesn't do that...it Creates one Random temporary item when cast on a destroyable object that disappears upon exit.

The closest thing to that is arty's have a chance to not consume a wands charge.

If your going to waste feats on DMs go with DM of making they add to your crafting skill but between the ranged feats, metamagic feats (mind you it seems alot of artys spells are unaffected by metas) and special arty feats (construct essence, augment summoning)

On a pure Arty (Or a Mech/Arty) you need at least the following

Point Blank Shot,Rapid Reload, IC:Ranged, Precise Shot,Improved Precise Shot,Toughness, Construct Essence, Augment Summoning

Thats 9 feats that are 100% required

On a pure Arty you get 12 Feats (7+5 bonus) leaving 3 feats left.

Sure you COULD use those for Dragonmarks of Making, Finding w/e but there's other optionals to look at: Extend, Maximize,Empower, Heighten, Quicken, Any SF (ie. UMD)

Mind you the usefulness of metas on a Arty IS debatable as it seems alot of their spells do not function with metas currently...although this may be a bug. Also they only get bard level sp so running around with a maiximzed,empowered, heightened Blade Barrier probably isn't a good idea. (Personally I don't think you'll be using BB too much anyways but others think its the holy grail)

Since arts also get masters touch they can use almost any weapon that drops out too. (sometimes exotic drops)

First why would you use anything besides repeaters (which you get free proficiency for)

Second master touch DOES NOT give you exotic weapon profs.

Enchants the items currently equipped in the target's right and left hands to grant their wielder proficiency if the items are simple or martial weapons, or shields, and lasts until the target rests.

[Shade]

I think its easy to argue about the distribution , because instead of Int for attack an Artificer could use Dex for attack and Int for damage with the Insightful Damage spell. Thats the reason why Drow Artificers could be interesting, too.

mm yea I had heard they remove insightful damage spell.. (Sounds overpowered to me.. In pnp its impossible to get dmg bonuses on crossbow for a reason)
Guess I heard wrong.

Could still dump it tho i think if you multi:

14 arti/6 rog
6rog for mechanic, which gives Int for dmg on crossbows
Then use insightful attack spell.
Int for both.

Yea you couldn't get improved precise shot... But youd end up being a better caster and tougher.

Course you could go high dex/int and fully focus on crossbows and it might actually be worth it.. But Id bet the crazy rate of fire they have now will get reduced before it goes live..

Seems like there primary DPS is meant to be spells, not ranged. but well see..

Maybe a squishy 20 dex/int Drow will end up being the best. Still too early to tell.

[Failedlegend]

mm yea I had heard they remove insightful damage spell.. (Sounds overpowered to me.. In pnp its impossible to get dmg bonuses on crossbow for a reason)
Guess I heard wrong.

Could still dump it tho i think if you multi:

14 arti/6 rog
6rog for mechanic, which gives Int for dmg on crossbows
Then use insightful attack spell.
Int for both.

Yea you couldn't get improved precise shot... But youd end up being a better caster and tougher.

Course you could go high dex/int and fully focus on crossbows and it might actually be worth it.. But Id bet the crazy rate of fire they have now will get reduced before it goes live..

Seems like there primary DPS is meant to be spells, not ranged. but well see..

Maybe a squishy 20 dex/int Drow will end up being the best. Still too early to tell.

If you only have 28pt builds drow are godlike for artys/ mech rogues (or a mix of the two) if you have 32pt Human, H-Elf (Human if you need the feat, H-Elf if you don't) and Halfling are much better choices

How is it overpowered?

Without IPS..or since your dumping the ranged feats entire (no dex = no feats) you might as well not bother with a weapon and since Arties have a very limited supply of attack spells your pretty much a buff bot that cant see his buff timers nor can he extend said buffs

Besides there's no reason to dump any feats on a pure Arty you need at least the following:

Point Blank Shot,Rapid Shot, IC:Ranged, Precise Shot,Improved Precise Shot,Toughness, Construct Essence, Augment Summoning

Than you have 3 feats left to fit in. Extend, Maximize,Empower, Heighten, Quicken, Any SF (ie. UMD) 4 if your human. (probably either Extend, Maximize,Empower, Heighten or Maximize & The DM of Making Line depending on how many arty spells actually end up being affected by metas.)

Mind you the usefulness of metas on a Arty IS debatable as it seems alot of their spells do not function with metas currently...although this may be a bug. Also they only get bard level sp so running around with a maiximzed,empowered, heightened Blade Barrier probably isn't a good idea. (Personally I don't think you'll be using BB too much anyways but others think its the holy grail)

I feel like a broken record

[Igrovin]

If you only have 28pt builds drow are godlike for artys/ mech rogues (or a mix of the two) if you have 32pt Human, H-Elf (Human if you need the feat, H-Elf if you don't) and Halfling are much better choices





What are you talking abut the DM of finding doesn't do that...it Creates one Random temporary item when cast on a destroyable object that disappears upon exit.

The closest thing to that is arty's have a chance to not consume a wands charge.

If your going to waste feats on DMs go with DM of making they add to your crafting skill but between the ranged feats, metamagic feats (mind you it seems alot of artys spells are unaffected by metas) and special arty feats (construct essence, augment summoning)

On a pure Arty (Or a Mech/Arty) you need at least the following

Point Blank Shot,Rapid Reload, IC:Ranged, Precise Shot,Improved Precise Shot,Toughness, Construct Essence, Augment Summoning

Thats 9 feats that are 100% required

On a pure Arty you get 12 Feats (7+5 bonus) leaving 3 feats left.

Sure you COULD use those for Dragonmarks of Making, Finding w/e but there's other optionals to look at: Extend, Maximize,Empower, Heighten, Quicken, Any SF (ie. UMD)

Mind you the usefulness of metas on a Arty IS debatable as it seems alot of their spells do not function with metas currently...although this may be a bug. Also they only get bard level sp so running around with a maiximzed,empowered, heightened Blade Barrier probably isn't a good idea. (Personally I don't think you'll be using BB too much anyways but others think its the holy grail)



First why would you use anything besides repeaters (which you get free proficiency for)

Second master touch DOES NOT give you exotic weapon profs.

Enchants the items currently equipped in the target's right and left hands to grant their wielder proficiency if the items are simple or martial weapons, or shields, and lasts until the target rests.

I know MT only does up to martial, thats why I said, Almost anything that drops.

DM of Finding, Does give you free wands. They may be temporary, but they are still free.

Rapid Reload.. If I'm not mistaken..

Feat Changes

* The Rapid Reload feat now significantly increases the reload speed of crossbows.
* NEW: Rapid Reload is now automatically granted to Artificers at level 1.

One feat that is 100% not needed to be taken. Cause you already got it.

Frankly, I don't find toughness to be "needed" either. Mental Toughness, sure, but not toughness. And when you are a wand/scroll master, Xbow Feats? Pfft.

I'd rather be able to increase the value of chests, and have the potential to decrease my costs by producing temporary free loots. Yes, I know this means that I'm not going battle engi..

[Failedlegend]

I know MT only does up to martial, thats why I said, Almost anything that drops.

Master touch your exact words I was referring to were "sometimes exotic drops" which you claimed you could use with M-Touch.

DM of Finding, Does give you free wands. They may be temporary, but they are still free.

Free wands no...it give you a free RANDOM item ANY item, if you cast it on a breakable ONE breakable per use (so 3 per quest) which can have as little as 1 charge on it if you do happen to get a wand.

Rapid Reload.. If I'm not mistaken..

One feat that is 100% not needed to be taken. Cause you already got it.

Ok correction...i meant Rapid "Shot" brain fart there

Xbow Feats? Pfft.

....

I'd rather be able to increase the value of chests, and have the potential to decrease my costs by producing temporary free loots. Yes, I know this means that I'm not going battle engi..

Otherwise you go ahead and find out how useless those DMs are and how well you do solely using wands and scrolls to fight. Aldo no Battle engineer...that would REALLY suck but apparently your gonna wand everyone to death, you know with your "free" wands...so your good right?

I'd REALLY like to see your build actually.

[Mercureal]

This same question was asked in-game on Advice channel.


Of course, as helpfully as I could, stated that Horc was the obvious choice.


(then I cleaned it up with a proper Human/WF answer after the chucking died away.)

Arti-horc SMASH puny kobolds!

[Ssmooth]

I feel like a broken record

Definition of insanity: Repeating the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.

You could have copy/pasted

[Jahmin]

Master touch your exact words I was referring to were "sometimes exotic drops" which you claimed you could use with M-Touch.

Since arts also get masters touch they can use almost any weapon that drops out too. (sometimes exotic drops)

In this case, yes it could be construed to indicate that he uses Master’s Touch on exotics as you are doing; however, the ‘almost any weapon’ would generally indicate that the ‘sometimes exotic drops’ is the exclusion.

Of course, Dwarves get their DAxes with the spell which is generally an exotic, merely not for them.

In any event I think it is too early to tell how Artificers will play out, and as such I think the ranged build or gimp mentality is a little premature. The various marks do provide benefit, and thus cannot be ‘useless,’ even if they are often suboptimal.