Secrets of the Craftingbots

[dkyle]

Uhmm, do you have anything better?
I had taken you guys at what you said that the devs said there wouldn't be any class/crafting bonuses.

In the first one, the poster quoted talks about separating build from crafting ability, and the rest of the post was predicated on BtC favor breaking the principle of keeping crafting ability separate and MadFloyd says he's with him in concept.

But, as I've said, indications. Every indication until now was that character abilities would be separate from crafting. There was no hint of this changing, and an update that would have changed it was revamped so it didn't. That's about as clear an indication as we get about Dev intentions. The preponderance of evidence pointed to build being separate from crafting.

[Dandonk]

I'm wondering why Turbine doesn't mark the mailboxes and banks as being in "BETA" since they are also use-at-your-own-risk and Turbine doesn't offer any support for them. That way, we could have Postumus and others leaping to Turbine's defense every time someone lost an item or a bag during a bank lag spike.

Hehe. Nice one.

[Jahmin]

Do you not remember when crafting launched? All shards were BtC when crafting launched. I was there. I made a crafter.

I was there, and you are wrong. Shade says so

[dkyle]

I was there, and you are wrong. Shade says so

Well, now you're simply wrong.

Shards were BtC.

There is a way to use BtC Shards to make BtA Items. I consider it an exploit. I would consider it rather foolish to base a build decision on an exploit. Especially one that doesn't even overcome the benefits, at the time, of crafting on a main.

[gloopygloop]

I was there, and you are wrong. Shade says so

Shade also says that Gianthold Tor's Epic version is complete. He is incorrect about things sometimes. Usually if it has something to do with a subject other than Two Handed Fighting Barbarians.

All crafting Shards were BtC when crafting was first introduced. That is a fact. You might not remember that for some bizarre reason, but you are wrong.

ALL CRAFTING SHARDS WERE BtC WHEN CRAFTING WAS FIRST INTRODUCED. Go back and read the forum posts from that time. You'll see.

[kernal42]

I was there, and you are wrong. Shade says so

You're mistaken. The first crafted shards on live were BTC, not BTA.

More on-topic, I feel betrayed:

I'm already reading loud and clear that any ingredient that can only be obtained by forcing the actual crafting toon to complete content (e.g. favor rewards) is objectionable.

Understood. Thanks.

I believe we have made steps toward this (and are with you in concept). I know that we have changed several rare ingredients to be BTA (formerly BTC) for this reason, but I would have to double check if the favor ingredients are BTA.

And now this fiasco...

-Kernal

[Postumus]

I'm wondering why Turbine doesn't mark the mailboxes and banks as being in "BETA" since they are also use-at-your-own-risk and Turbine doesn't offer any support for them. That way, we could have Postumus and others leaping to Turbine's defense every time someone lost an item or a bag during a bank lag spike.

Well you're obviously very disgruntled if you can't understand what I'm saying and instead feel the need to accuse me of drinking the Turbine koolaide. Please send Turbine a letter recounting my undying support of their every decision in the forums. Maybe they'll toss me a few TPs. :O


Let me simplify this:

If you see someone at the beach run past the sign that reads "swim at your own risk" and dive into the surf, do you blame the sign maker or the swimmer for what happens next?

[Thrudh]

Can =/= must

Many betas give the option to spend money, but don't require it. They simply reward the cash expenditure somehow when the beta period is over in most cases, either by allowing them to keep what they paid for in beta, or by some other means.

I think that's exactly what people are mad about... They are losing all that real-world cash, and all that in-game plat without being compensated.

[Postumus]

Uggg, my crafter is one of my main characters on their 5th life as a caster. I'm not sacrificing all the uber I've put into that character to make them better at crafting.

The best way for the devs to fix this issue is to make your crafting XP account based, not character based. They have said multiple times that the intent of crafting is that you only need one crafter to make items for all your account characters. The only thing that making it be character based does for crafting right now is add the frustration of having to move items around in your bank. There is no reason to make the crafting xp character based, and with this new artificer and dragonmark bonus there is even more reason to make it account based.

This is an intriguing idea. They could also make the dragonmark available to everyone, but then people might complain that they have to 'waste feats' to get the bonus.

[dkyle]

If you see someone at the beach run past the sign that reads "swim at your own risk" and dive into the surf, do you blame the sign maker or the swimmer for what happens next?

Well, "Swim at your own risk", means just that. Doesn't mean "don't swim".

If someone goes in, and is unprepared for the normal behavior of the ocean, and has problems, that's their own fault. But if the ocean turns out to be acid, well, that's kind of the sign maker's fault.

[Aelonwy]

I'm reluctant to list all the immediate changes, but I can tell you we are making shards BTA. You won't need to make each alt a crafter.

to end that argument at least.... from Dev tracker thread - U9 Crafting debate or discussion, you decide.

[Postumus]

I think that's exactly what people are mad about... They are losing all that real-world cash, and all that in-game plat without being compensated.

Aren't the crafted items themselves compensation for the time, money, and plat expended?

It's not like Turbine's saying they will take away all crafted items. All this fuss is over a new dragon mark and class, yes?

[Dandonk]

Aren't the crafted items themselves compensation for the time, money, and plat expended?

A few +2 to hit goggles, some fun twik robes, and some otherwise easily SP items? Not nearly worth the millions I put into this.

[Postumus]

Maybe they'll change it before it goes live.

I think that's a given.

Which is why I, and many others, are waiting to see what this looks like when the dust finally settles before spending any more real time and resources on this system.

[kernal42]

Maybe they'll change it before it goes live.

Given their quick response to player feedback in previous updates (for example, regarding the use of the Dreamspitter as a crafting ingredient), I have faith that the devs will once again realize the cause of our collective outrage and modify the system(s) in question before they hit Live.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Dandonk]

Given their quick response to player feedback in previous updates (for example, regarding the use of the Dreamspitter as a crafting ingredient), I have faith that the devs will once again realize the cause of our collective outrage and modify the system(s) in question before they hit Live.

Cheers,
Kernal

Well, we can hope. But the lack of any response so far doesn't look good.

[Postumus]

A few +2 to hit goggles, some fun twik robes, and some otherwise easily SP items? Not nearly worth the millions I put into this.

So you have buyer's remorse. I get it. But what could you reasonably expect to craft? Torcs and Esos?


I'm happy with my +4 holy silver of EOB and +4 silver ghost touch of undead bane weapons. It sure beat grinding for a min2 just to run shroud and for a few other things.

I'm enjoying making customized lowbie items for my TR until he can get to the good stuff.

But my expectations weren't very high (in fact, I had none), and I stopped at 50 when I saw where this was going.

[patang01]

I was there, and you are wrong. Shade says so

Shards were BTC in the beginning and we asked the devs to at least make them BTA like now with BTC item when crafted.

[Dolphious]

I think that's a given.

Which is why I, and many others, are waiting to see what this looks like when the dust finally settles before spending any more real time and resources on this system.

Right. The take-home-message is to stop crafting for xp and save your essences. Using essences to level a crafter right now could very well be a waste of resources no mater what some of our more prolific fanboys say about how this doesn't screw anyone.

[Dandonk]

Right. The take-home-message is to stop crafting for xp and save your essences. Using essences to level a crafter right now could very well be a waste of resources.

This.