Secrets of the Craftingbots

[dkyle]

Actually Shards are bound, and can not be transferred to other characters.

Shards are nothing.

The significant ingredients, the Larges, can be transferred.

If the significant part of crafting, the XP, could be transferred, I wouldn't have as big a problem with this change.

Really, you're just being pedantic here.

[Aaxeyu]

No, it gives *some* people an incentive to cap a toon they will never play.

Everyone gets an incentive to cap a toon they will never play.

Wow, the concept of incentive is really unknown on this forums... Everytime I mention it someone answer in the exact same way.

Here's how it works:
If say to you that I will give you a dollar if you jump off a roof top you will most probably not do it, but the offered dollar is still an incentive.

[Lord_Thanatos]

Also, Its obvious that the devs wont be balancing future crafting around the assumption that some characters can get +20 crafting levels. No, they will just be just ignored and balance everything around the 'average' player.

[Cyr]

Everyone gets an incentive to cap a toon they will never play.

Wow, the concept of incentive is really unknown on this forums... Everytime I mention it someone answer in the exact same way.

Here's how it works:
If say to you that I will give you a dollar if you jump off a roof top you will most probably not do it, but the offered dollar is still an incentive.

Indeed. I run into this same issue all the time on the forums. It is amazing how difficult it is for people to understand the concepts of reward/risk and incentive/disincentive.

[dkyle]

How would it be stupid if (for example) you decide you hate playing artificers?

I said stupid for me.

But I'm confident that plenty of people would prefer to level a first life character to 20, than grind the last 20 levels of crafting.

I'd argue leveling a toon to 20 that you don't like playing,no matter the bonus, is stupid, you feel differently.

I might not especially like artificers, but I also don't especially like the crafting grind. At least one of those things is new.

[Khurse]

Shards are nothing.

The significant ingredients, the Larges, can be transferred.

If the significant part of crafting, the XP, could be transferred, I wouldn't have as big a problem with this change.

Really, you're just being pedantic here.

??
How are Shards nothing?
You need the Shards in order to craft teh greensteel.

In any event,I (obviously) have issues with the arguments you're making.

Your examples make no sense and have no relevance, your complaints (imo) are largely baseless.

Again, if Turbine suddenly say "Here's some level 160 recipes that Only Dragonmarked level 20 Artificers can create" I would be 100% behind your complaint. (And don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely sure that won't happen some day)
but how this is working now?
It's not a problem.

[Khurse]

I said stupid for me.

But I'm confident that plenty of people would prefer to level a first life character to 20, than grind the last 20 levels of crafting.


.

And I'm equally confident an equal number of people would prefer to grind out the last 20 levels, and that a greater number than both aren't going to care about crafting that high anyway.

[Dolphious]

I would have preferred if crafting stayed independent of builds, but as long as we get a one time item to transfer crafting xp, it's not that big a deal. We can all level our crafting gimps together... it'll be fun in a weird sort of way.

OTOH if we don't get a way to transfer crafting XP this really is a "loosing trust" moment with Turbine. I understand that thinks change and that crafting was in some sort of "live-beta" state, but this is just too much and really makes a mockery of the time and effort that people put into crafting. The "it's beta" argument is fine as long as we get a way of moving the xp, but it really doesn't make sense to say "it's beta so they can change it" and at the same time "it's on live so you have to live with the choices you made, no mulligans."

If a dev could just weigh in and say that there will be a way of transferring -at least some- of our acquired crafting xp it would save a lot of heartache and complaining.

[Kilnedric]

False. It went live BtC. It was switched to BtA in an early patch.

BtA was not confirmed, and the nature of what Unbound was going to entail was unknown. For all we know, the cost to produce Unbound items would be massively higher than bound items, again meaning that the best choice would be to craft on our mains.

And actually, the cost of Unbound is massively higher than bound. So the choice was correct in that regard. The problem was the completely unexpected replacement of BtC with BtA.

Hindsight is 20/20. You seem to be forgetting that.

Sorry for the minor derail. Are you saying crafting "bound" items are now BTA, not BTC? How'd I miss that?

To get back on track, yes this change stinks for the early adopters. Maybe they'll change it before it goes live.

[Dolphious]

I stopped caring so much about getting loot. In some cases I may be getting a little obsessive like on my TR project but then I switch to another character when the obsessiveness gets too much.

If I cared that much about raid loot, all my characters would be decked out.

I play more for the social aspect and the fun quests. Loot is nice and makes my character a little better but it is a minor part.

Well that great, but if you don't care about the loot portion of the game, why are you getting into such a worked up argument about what that loot system should be like? "Not caring either way, but making heated arguments for one side" sounds an awful lot like the definition of trolling.

[KillEveryone]

Well that great, but if you don't care about the loot portion of the game, why are you getting into such a worked up argument about what that loot system should be like? "Not caring either way, but making heated arguments for one side" sounds an awful lot like the definition of trolling.

This isn't a argument about loot system. It is crafting.

[Khurse]

Everyone gets an incentive to cap a toon they will never play.

Wow, the concept of incentive is really unknown on this forums... Everytime I mention it someone answer in the exact same way.

Here's how it works:
If say to you that I will give you a dollar if you jump off a roof top you will most probably not do it, but the offered dollar is still an incentive.

.....

Really, that's your argument?

OK, how about this, the disincentive of leveling a new toon to 20 that you might not like could outweigh the incentive.


I don't consider something an incentive if the deterrent is such that I'm not going to do it.But I will admit that technically you are correct and it is an incentive.

So I will change my argument to some people may choose to play a toon to cap that they will never play beyond that, some people will not choose to level a toon to cap they will never play beyond that.

Again, choices.

How are they bad?

[gloopygloop]

IF, it took a artificer with dragonmarks to make certain stuff, yes they would be more potent.

They are not.

You can still make the same exact stuff that any other person can make.

You can still cap your crafter to the highest level that every other person can make.

IF, they make it so that artificer with dragonmarks is required to craft and hit the highest levels, I'll throw my full support behind your arguments.

Right now however, your point is a non-issue.

Imagine if making a Fighter took 1.9 million XP to cap on your first life, but making an Artificer took only 1.1 million XP to cap on your first life.

Can you see how that might be perceived as something other than a non-issue?
Can you see how getting crafting XP (something that is quite tedious) might be percieved as an even bigger grind than getting regular XP (something that comes automatically with questing)? And can you understand how that might magnify the issue for some people?

You have already said that this doesn't matter to you. Are you capable of thinking beyond yourself and understanding how it can be a significant issue for someone that isn't you?

[Montoya]

any human can get +10 with dragon mark of making correct?

[KillEveryone]

Imagine if making a Fighter took 1.9 million XP to cap on your first life, but making an Artificer took only 1.1 million XP to cap on your first life.

Can you see how that might be perceived as something other than a non-issue?
Can you see how getting crafting XP (something that is quite tedious) might be percieved as an even bigger grind than getting regular XP (something that comes automatically with questing)? And can you understand how that might magnify the issue for some people?

You have already said that this doesn't matter to you. Are you capable of thinking beyond yourself and understanding how it can be a significant issue for someone that isn't you?

I am.

I don't care about other characters because I have my own to worry about.

I will continue to do what I've been doing in the game regardless of what changes come about. I will adapt.

Worry about your own character, not others.

[jojje_b]

this thread is becoming pretty huge faster than i can read it so im not gonna bother to read it all before posting, so sorry in advance if im just saying stuff thats already been said.

this change feels kinda lame because its gonna punish the people who put alot of effort into testing the system for you. the world wont end if you do follow through with this but its still lame.
secondly i wonder if you really want a system where the best crafters, which is usually what most people strive for, will ALWAYS be an alt which got leveled up to 20 and then never used again for any other purpose

[gloopygloop]

I am.

I don't care about other characters because I have my own to worry about.

I will continue to do what I've been doing in the game regardless of what changes come about. I will adapt.

Worry about your own character, not others.

I am thinking about my own character who is a Half Orc Heavy Pick specced Kensai. I'm thinking about whether I'm
a) going to throw away everything that I invested into crafting on my primary crafter or
b) going to throw away everything that I acquired from questing on my primary crafter by TRing him into a craftbot that won't be particularly effective in quests and won't use 90% of the gear I acquired either or
c) continuing to level my Fighter in crafting even though I'd be getting signifcantly less return on my essences than if I picked a) or b).

All three of those options kind of suck.

[ulticleo]

I don't really care.

then go away

[dkyle]

This isn't a argument about loot system. It is crafting.

Crafting is a loot system.

Loot = items. Loot system = system to get items. Whether it be normal chests, Raid chests, or crafting.

I am, of course, giving you the benefit of the doubt here. I suppose it's possible you think "loot" only refers to items from chests. But, given that you've been here more than a day, that would be silly.

[KillEveryone]

Crafting is a loot system.

Loot = items. Loot system = system to get items. Whether it be normal chests, Raid chests, or crafting.

I am, of course, giving you the benefit of the doubt here. I suppose it's possible you think "loot" only refers to items from chests. But, given that you've been here more than a day, that would be silly.

I can also use logic to make anything smell like a rose.

Try again.

This isn't about loot. It is about crafting and the artificer.

If you wish to discuss loot, you should probably start another one of your threads because you are derailing this one.