Secrets of the Craftingbots

[dkyle]

Hmm....I wonder if that means you will get free levels or if they will lower your existing xp to maintain your level

The bonus CLs don't show up as XP. You start with the same 0 XP, and level through the same XP progression from level 1, but you just craft things at a higher effective CL.

It's possible that they'd remain after TR, but I doubt it, since they're never applied as actual XP.

[Aelonwy]

Right, because turning a mult-TR into a crafting bot totally makes sense.

False. XP from crafting shards degrades. You do not level at any appreciable rate at high CL just crafting useful items. You level by crafting useless shards over and over, moving on to different ones as the old ones degrade.

Upon reaching 130, and applying the +20 bonus, I doubt the crafter would gain even a single level without intentionally leveling.

Indeed. And isn't it preferable for games to avoid subjecting their players to vicious cycles?

I'm more or less a newer player. I have not TR'd yet mostly due to being an altaholic. Where would the +20 artificier bonus be most helpful in your opinion? I agree about vicious cycles.

[Gkar]

Levels are higher on Lammania.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=335757

Bonus! Thanks!

[Thrudh]

And I did actually plan ahead.

I have a haggle bot just for buying and selling.

I have a crafter bot just for crafting.

Again, a crafter bot just for crafting was completely worthless when crafting was released...

So no, you didn't plan ahead...

I just find it amazing that you can't see how someone else could reasonably make their main character (who could USE BtC crafted items) their crafter.

Look, I semi-agree that this isn't THAT horrible a thing for people who already have crafters... They still have their crafting levels... They can still be very good at it... Just slower than people who roll up new crafting focused characters.

I vehemently disagree that they didn't plan ahead, and you were a genius who saw the obvious future.

[dkyle]

The biggest problem with the thread is the assumption that players will make crafting bots.

People make Haggle bots for the sake of a few percents of plat.

Crafting bots are vastly more potent. And you think it's some crazy assumption they'll get made?

But, the crafting possibilities are just a fraction of the entire package.

Yes, but for a crafting bot, the crafting possibilities are all that matter. Once you've spent three feats on the DMarks, your character is already gimped for questing compared to a character that didn't. You're already disincentivized to play the character for real. If you want to actually play an Artificer, you're better off making an additional one, that isn't a crafting bot.

Whether the class overall will be OP remains to be seen, and is an issue for another thread. Personally, I don't see it, based on the Release Notes. I think they'll be like Bards: one is always nice, but not required, but more is pointless.

[protokon]

This is why I have not invested any serious time into crafting, and am currently hoarding a few month's worth of essences .

Actually I doubt I will participate in the crafting at all since even with a +20 bonus it is still painful to level to me (painfully boring). I'll stick with my greensteel weapons, I'd much rather keep grinding shroud than grind crafting at this point, even after spending years grinding shroud.

[KillEveryone]

I vehemently disagree that they someone didn't plan ahead, and you were a genius who saw the obvious future.

I can live with that.

I don't really care.

[Aaxeyu]

Where is it hurting someone?

It hurts those who didn't make the right choice. They are not getting the benefit. You say that you will benefit from this because of the choice you made. Then everyone could have made that choice and benefited from it.

It's obvious that you like teh change because you will benefit from it. Can you please tell me from a gameplay perspective why it's a good change?

[KillEveryone]

People make Haggle bots for the sake of a few percents of plat.

Crafting bots are vastly more potent. And you think it's some crazy assumption they'll get made?

IF, it took a artificer with dragonmarks to make certain stuff, yes they would be more potent.

They are not.

You can still make the same exact stuff that any other person can make.

You can still cap your crafter to the highest level that every other person can make.

IF, they make it so that artificer with dragonmarks is required to craft and hit the highest levels, I'll throw my full support behind your arguments.

Right now however, your point is a non-issue.

[dkyle]

I'm more or less a newer player. I have not TR'd yet mostly due to being an altaholic. Where would the +20 artificier bonus be most helpful in your opinion? I agree about vicious cycles.

The ideal method would be:

1. Create a new Human Artificer, but don't level it or take any DMarks.
2. Level crafting to cap minus 20 (so 130, for now)
3. Level the Artificer, take the DMarks. Once you cap, don't bother to quest with it again.

However, leveling the Artificer, and taking the DMarks, while still leveling crafting is not a big loss. It's what I'll be doing, since I want to get to Holy Burst Greater Banes as soon as possible.

What isn't a good idea is to take the DMarks on anything you plan to quest with. It's just pointless. Crafting is now best reserved for crafting bots, not for real characters.

[Khurse]

It hurts those who didn't make the right choice. They are not getting the benefit. You say that you will benefit from this because of the choice you made. Then everyone could have made that choice and benefited from it.

No, it hurts no one.

If they hadn't of released Artificer and DM bonuses, my crafter would need (give or take) 65 levels to reach the proposed cap of 150.

If they release Artificer and DM bonuses as they are, my crafter will still need (give or take) 65 levels to reach the proposed cap of 150.
I will need the same number of ingredients,Xp and such that I needed before.

Therefore,this has not hurt me.

It HAS given someone the option of creating a new toon with a number of crafting related leveling bonuses, but that's not the same as hurting me (imo anyway)

Also a bit harder to calculate with the reduced XP cost, I've gained +/- 10 levels to all three schools on Lammanina.
Of course we don't know if this will go live this way or not.

[KillEveryone]

It hurts those who didn't make the right choice. They are not getting the benefit. You say that you will benefit from this because of the choice you made. Then everyone could have made that choice and benefited from it.

It's obvious that you like teh change because you will benefit from it. Can you please tell me from a gameplay perspective why it's a good change?

And how is it a bad choice to have a crafter that is not a dedicated crafter? You can cap any character and class in crafting levels with the current crafting system.

How is it a bad choice to have a main as a crafter? You can cap any character and class in crafting levels with the current crafting system.

Why do you think it was a bad choice?

Can you please tell me from a gameplay perspective why it's a bad change? As stated, you can cap any class and character with in crafting.

[dkyle]

IF, it took a artificer with dragonmarks to make certain stuff, yes they would be more potent.

Getting the same things for less cost is potent. It's completely absurd to say it isn't. It's the same, in principle, as getting more for the same cost, which is what Hagglebots do.

If there were a feat that doubled the droprate of all Shroud ingredients, would you say that feat is not potent because we'll get there eventually, anyway?

[Khurse]

Getting the same things for less cost is potent. It's completely absurd to say it isn't. It's the same, in principle, as getting more for the same cost, which is what Hagglebots do.

If there were a feat that doubled the droprate of all Shroud ingredients, would you say that feat is not potent because we'll get there eventually, anyway?

I wouldn't say it's not potent.
I also wouldn't argue that it completely invalidates all the Shroud ingredients I've already gathered.

[Aaxeyu]

And how is it a bad choice to have a crafter that is not a dedicated crafter? You can cap any character and class in crafting levels with the current crafting system.

Because it takes alot more effort to do so.

How is it a bad choice to have a main as a crafter? You can cap any character and class in crafting levels with the current crafting system.

It's bad to have a dedicated crafter (artificier with D-marks) because it means that you have wasted 3 feats on something that will not help you to contribute to your party.

Can you please tell me from a gameplay perspective why it's a bad change? As stated, you can cap any class and character with in crafting.

Because it gives far too much incentive to just cap a character that you will never actually play.

Now, why don't you answer my question? Reverting the question like that only makes it look that you can't actually give an answer.

[KillEveryone]

Getting the same things for less cost is potent. It's completely absurd to say it isn't. It's the same, in principle, as getting more for the same cost, which is what Hagglebots do.

If there were a feat that doubled the droprate of all Shroud ingredients, would you say that feat is not potent because we'll get there eventually, anyway?

It isn't getting me any new raid loot.

I have a hagglebard so I must be overpowered. I need nerfed now.

It isn't as potent at you are making it out to be. It may not cost as much in plat or essessences but that isn't a huge advantage and if any at all.

Nothing is stopping you from rolling a character just to gimp and park in the crafting hall.

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to craft on your main.

Nothing is stopping you from crafting at all.

[dkyle]

I wouldn't say it's not potent.
I also wouldn't argue that it completely invalidates all the Shroud ingredients I've already gathered.

Shroud ingredients aren't bound. They can be transferred to other characters.

If Crafting XP weren't bound, and could be transferred to other characters, I wouldn't have as much issue with the change. As I said in the OP.

[Khurse]

Because it gives far too much incentive to just cap a character that you will never actually play.

r.

No, it gives *some* people an incentive to cap a toon they will never play.

Some people will roll an artificer simply to get to 150 crafting and never play them.
Some people will roll an artificer to play them and get to 150 cap
Some people will not roll an artificer and get to 150 cap
Some people will not bother crafting at all, regardless of whether or not they roll an artificer.

It works for the game because it gives people more choices. (IMO of course)
As has already been shown some people don't care that there is now a faster/easier way to level a toon to Crafting cap,we'll continue to level our own.
Some people will create artificers and level them,possibly (probably) hitting cap before those of us who aren't artificers.

It's about choice.

[Khurse]

Shroud ingredients aren't bound. They can be transferred to other characters.

If Crafting XP weren't bound, and could be transferred to other characters, I wouldn't have as much issue with the change. As I said in the OP.

Actually Shards are bound, and can not be transferred to other characters.

If you want to admit your analogy was completely irrelevant though, I don't mind

[KillEveryone]

You are grasping at straws.

Because it takes alot more effort to do so.

It's bad to have a dedicated crafter (artificier with D-marks) because it means that you have wasted 3 feats on something that will not help you to contribute to your party.

Because it gives far too much incentive to just cap a character that you will never actually play.

Now, why don't you answer my question? Reverting the question like that only makes it look that you can't actually give an answer.

It isn't bad to have a dedicated crafter with D-marks because you gimp that character after you've capped that character. You didn't waste 3 feats on anything because you only partly gimp and use the free feat exchange and then you'll have to deal with two feats. You can then use in game resources to fix the rest. You do not have to spend any real money on this.

I have a haggle bard that I do not play. I see nothing wrong in this. The world is full of specialists and according to you they are gimped.

You still haven't come up with any good reasons to my questions and I think you are just arguing to blow some hot air. Really, your position is flawed because it does not hurt anyone.

Still, to answer your question...Dedicated crafters is where it is good.