Arcane Guardian bard12/wizard8

[Opposite0479]

Whats special about this build is that bard warchanter makes it so that medium armor doesnt effect arcane spell failure resulting in more protection. The build also uses Rapiers to TWF with the weapon finese feat. and therefore has a high dexterity for better TWF.

Please give some feedback thank you

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Arcane Guardian
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(8 Wizard / 12 Bard)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 826

BAB: 13/13/18/23
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 13 16 16
Dexterity 15 21 22
Constitution 16 19 20
Intelligence 13 18 20
Wisdom 8 11 11
Charisma 8 11 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 21 21
Bluff -1 1 1
Concentration 7 28 29
Diplomacy 3 24 24
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 3 19 19
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 3 6 6
Intimidate 1 9 13
Jump 5 18 18
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 3 6 6
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 3 24 24
Repair 2 6 6
Search 2 5 5
Spot -1 8 8
Swim 6 18 18
Tumble 4 7 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
\cf5 Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I

Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (2): Heroism
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perfoorm (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II

Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Acid Spray
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Shield
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I

Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (1): Tumble
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I

Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Medium Armor Proficiency
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Spell (2): Web
Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Spell (2): Lesser Death Aura
Spell (2): Knock
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I

Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Spell (3): Acid Blast
Spell (3): Stinking Cloud
Enhancement: Raciaal Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III

Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Repair Serious Damage
Spell (3): Water Breathing
Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II

Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II

Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Repair Critical Damage
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III

[ulticleo]

ugh, where to begin?

- what are you trying to accomplish with this build? mellee with some good buffs? firewall? your mellee will be weak (low str), you'll have hard time hitting (dex not high enough for a finess build), and your firewall will be weak as well, as you're only lvl 8 wiz, besides which, FW becomes useless around level 16 or so when you hit the vale.

- medium armor doesn't grant you any additional protection by level 12 (the earliest time you'd be able to don it with no penalties) as mobs will have enough to hit to get you every time unless you work hard to maintain high AC. It is relatively easy to maintain reasonable AC until lvl 10 or so, but then it becomes a non-issue for 99% of builds.

- I am also quite curious where you are going to pick up a full complement of +3 tomes (which can be eaten at lvl 11, not 7) on a 28 build by the time you get to lvl 7? I would love to know for my own toons :P

If you want a melee with good buffs, bard is great. pure, 18/2 with fighter, 16/2/2 with fighter, barb, or rogue are all viable builds (search the forums for some viable builds). It is very hard to build a viable battle mage in DDO, and not recommended for new players.

If you do decide to go that route, comb the forums carefully for some builds and advice. 12wiz/6rgr(or ftr)/2rogue and 16 sorc/2pally/2monk are both viable builds, but require gear, game knowledge, and don't generally contribute to a party as much as a pure mellee OR a pure caster, though they are good soloers in the hands of an experienced player.

[Cam_Neely]

Whats special about this build is that bard warchanter makes it so that medium armor doesnt effect arcane spell failure resulting in more protection.

Ok given this, what kind of Protections are you expecting to have that a typical 20 bard would not have, given you are using all +3 tomes? Can you provide your AC break down at end game, as well as your expected running DR?

How about your expected DPS? These are the only two things you state in your intro, and it looks like, at first glance, this guy will have neither protection or DPS comparable to other decent lv 20s

Why did you dump UMD? It seems you put ranks in Intim, what do you expect your final intim to be? When you have power attack running, whats your expected 'to hit'? Many of these quests are rhetorical, but you should be asking the, when you are building a character.

[karl_k0ch]

It's a nice perk that Warchanter 2 allows to wear Medium Armor with no ASF. But you should be aware of the fact that the benefit of this is not necessarily more protection, but more selection.

There are some nice medium armors which grant properties otherwise not found on light armors, most notably (Epic) Marilith Chain and Epic Cavalry Plate. If you are really attracted to the idea of casting in medium armor, I'd either go pure Warchanter, splash some Barb levels for 14 Bard/6 Barb, or go a path along the lines of Purgatory's Moshet build (16 barb/2 Fighter/2 Rogue, which can obtain an AC of 79). AC and Warchanter do mesh, but it needs quite a bit of work.

[TheDjinnFor]

Please give some feedback thank you

You're either just trolling with this build, or about to get flamed. No offense.

Let's clear up some misconceptions right off the bat:

1. Medium armor generally doesn't provide any more protection than robes or light armor would; at levels under 12, it would, because enemy attack bonuses are reasonable, but that doesn't help you. After level 12, you need to go out of your way to invest in AC-increasing feats, enhancements, and ability points, which you haven't done and probably can't do on a bard/wizard build. At really high levels, heavy armor tends to have lots of different utility effects like the Epic Cavalry Plate which may help a heavy-armor tank, but generally robe-wearing builds with monk levels have the highest AC and thus the highest protection.

2. This build can't afford to finesse, because it has no source of melee damage. Rogue (particularly halfling rogue) finesse builds are acceptable only because rogues get insanely high sneak attack damage. If you want to make a melee-capable bard on 28 points you probably need to go THF with strength. If you're going to go with this build, you don't want to ever have to melee anything important, because you won't be able to hurt it.

3. 12 Bard/8 Wizard brings to level 20 quests what a 12th level bard would and an 8th level wizard would: almost nothing useful. The problem is, spellcasting classes only get better at spellcasting if you add a level in the same spellcasting class, unlike melee classes, which you can pretty well mix and match. Having two different spellcasting classes basically means you're bringing two level ~10 casters into a level 20 quest, but with less total HP, less total SP, and half the casting speed. In your particular case, you have a level 8 wizard who can cast spells in medium armor and also throw in weak bard buffs (those 12 bard levels don't do much else when 8 wizard basically provides a similar spell selection and the character can't melee worth anything). And you want to bring that into a quest at level 20? Not gonna end well.

4. I'm pretty sure the ability to cast arcane spells in medium armor without spell failure from Warchanter II only applies to bard songs (edit: spells), but I could be wrong (edit: apparently I am).

5. Pure builds are okay to play. Just make a level 20 bard, you can't screw that up if you do some basic research into what bards get. It looks like, overall, you have no real knowledge of what is good and what is bad in DDO. That's not an insult, just a fact. Minor things like not investing in UMD as a bard, taking Medium Armor Proficiency as a feat despite getting it for free with Warchanter II, or taking Merfolk's Blessing as a spell, and major things having both bad accuracy as a finesse build and crappy damage as a melee build, or randomly grabbing 8 wizard despite gaining no real benefits from doing so... you shouldn't be making and posting builds for a long time until you've read the forums more and understand bard and wizard better, or even DDO as a whole for that matter.

[stille_nacht]

read the link in my sig.

what are you trying to accomplish with this build? is the main question that springs to mind...

finesse rapiers: you wont have enough dex for that to matter much, and you have no extra source of damage like rogues, additionally, it is harder to raise dex than str, meaning your to-hit will probably be pretty crummy. even non finessed rapier will do pretty minimal damage with this build...

8 wiz: what is the point? firewall? its going to do 2d6+1 (8) damage at cap (only 24 maximized and impowered on average). Youll only acquire it at level 19 anyway, meaning most mobs are fire immune. Do you want pale master 1? or something? because pale master 1 is not adequate healing for a melee build.

[karl_k0ch]

4. I'm pretty sure the ability to cast arcane spells in medium armor without spell failure from Warchanter II only applies to bard songs, but I could be wrong.

Songs are not subject to ASF anyway.

As the feat is worded, ignoring ASF on medium armor is independent of the choice of the arcane spell cast; be it a wizard's spell, a bard's one or a scroll. Otherwise, one would have reports of Bards failing on Arcane Scrolls because of ASF.

[TheDjinnFor]

Songs are not subject to ASF anyway.

Meant bard spells, but typed the wrong thing.

[gwenniez]

nice idea but wrong on many levels

like people pointed out

you start with 28 point and then expect to have all the +3 tomes at lvl 7.. or even at 11.. ok let me burst that
bubble +3 tomes can only be aquired inraids and there pretty tough to get, especially the ones you actually want
this has taken people years to aquire all the +3 tomes in every stat.\

bab will be miserable unless you get 20 divine power clickies and use them continuesly.. trust me keeping 1 minute
buffs on you to hit anything for hours on end will drain your fun on many levels.

no umd the best skill in the game you just drop for something near useless as intimidate for a bard.

lots of dex to hit things i asume yet no evasion to utilize the dex score.. turning you in a liability in a raid
and epic enviroment with low hp no evasion and mediocre buffs(haste rage displacement.) because of the 8 levels you miss in being a bard.

no level 5 spells so no gh wich is like the bread and butter in bard land or dispel magic. no +1 damage and hit to
your songs also at lvl 13 nor at 14 nor at 20.. makeing you to hit bonus a bit shallow.

bard extra song 2 . No

energy of music 3 . No

sublte spellcasting enh . do you seriously think you need anything in this let alone more ranks.. how much damage do you think your spells will do with an 20 int wich is fail dc on any spells with mobs who are higher cr rating then the kobold shamans in waterworks and 8 levels of wiz.

wiz and bards just dont mix especially if you wanna fight with it.. to make it work you need str. con. dex. int. and as high as possible.. and to be honest.. its not gonna happen with an 28 point build.. heck i would steer away from it even with a 36 piint build and all the +4 tomes in every stat..

want to try something remotely functional splash it with a sorc and go spellsinger II.. at least you make a decent healer that way.

[unbongwah]

Whats special about this build is that bard warchanter makes it so that medium armor doesnt effect arcane spell failure resulting in more protection.

I don't believe the no-ASF-from-armor ability of bards applies to wiz or sorc spells, so those will fail just as often as they would without bard if you're wearing armor.

+3 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

I suspect you meant to add a +2 Supreme at lvl 7 but clicked twice on top of the +1 Supreme, making it +3.

[Opposite0479]

I love how i get no comments on my real build but when i make this joke build i get a ton of serious responses it was a joke guys calm down :P

[gwenniez]

I love how i get no comments on my real build but when i make this joke build i get a ton of serious responses it was a joke guys calm down :P

I checked your other build and the reason people didn't comment on it because it's like the oldest bard build in the book and has been done over 50.000 times by tons of people who constantly post the same thing over and over again. So in a way yes it does make sense because

90% of the twf bard build include

gtwf
weapon focus
power atk

and it has proven time after time to be a functional thing so why would people make 4 pages long comments on something that has been done before for years ?

This however is new and just doesn't function so people tell you up front and honestly that this build is not gonna work and you do it off as a joke build and nag about your orignal build not getting so much comments afterwards..
If you want people to comment on your current build just bump it up and say something along the line of : any more comments i dont feel sure about this.. but no instead you choose to build this abonimation to redirect your frustration.

comments about your other build

power atk to late
fighter active past life feats is not that good unless you got a spectacular high combat feats the clicky is pretty worthless long cast time and only 1 minute duration you better off with the paladin active past life feat.

[unbongwah]

I love how i get no comments on my real build but when i make this joke build i get a ton of serious responses it was a joke guys calm down :P

Oh, you haven't heard of the DDO Forum Corollary to Poe's Law? "A sufficiently terrible 'real' build is indistinguishable from a joke build because they're both equally bad."

[TheDjinnFor]

I love how i get no comments on my real build but when i make this joke build i get a ton of serious responses it was a joke guys calm down :P

Called it :

You're either just trolling with this build, or about to get flamed.

But seriously now, that other build is weak too, and suffers from some of the same problems. Plus, you took past lives despite probably having no TRs... My statement still applies:

you shouldn't be making and posting builds for a long time until you've read the forums more and understand bard better, or even DDO as a whole for that matter.