Most useless class in DDO?

[Candela90]

They just spelled 'need rouge' wrong and need to apply some makeup while looking for an available artificer for traps. Or wizzie splash. :P

Bleh. Artificers. Saw only 2 builded good enough. all others are nto able to do trap on epic. Giiiimps.

[deahamlet]

Bleh. Artificers. Saw only 2 builded good enough. all others are nto able to do trap on epic. Giiiimps.

I've met two situations so far where the trap wasn't for me. Both in GH. One is the underwater in Crucible which tbh is better done by a monk considering the mobs at the other end. Nothing to disable, just need evasion. 2 rog/18 arti could do it to perfection, monk could do it to perfection too. Rogue, depending on build, may get killed by the mobs on elite. In fact, I've seen them get killed.
The other was an air trap that pushes you into the ceiling. I'm not convinced evasion would help on that one, just carefully stepping (which I'm not always perfect at). The box is on the other side of the trap.

I have Trap Sense which makes traps I DO have to go into a lot less painful. I usually know what kind of trap and if it's elemental can prepare.

I have not reached level 20 yet, but according to my calculations I can easily reach the skill level required for epic traps. Mind you, I also wear gear that boosts skills and stats, have human Versatility for skill boost (temporary).

I have met artificers who couldn't even do elite traps on level. I managed, always, but again... I wear gear to ensure 100% success on traps. I don't think it's the artificer class.. it's the players.
This is the new flavour of the month and many people play them... a lot of them with a very poor comprehension of what they can do.

Or maybe they don't care one bit about the trap skills. In which case they should just warn everyone and save everybody headaches.
Artificers can do many things, but not all of them well (kind of like FvS). Traps, ranged weapon, rune arm, casting, self-heal, scroll usage up the wazoo. Can't do them all.

Don't ask an artificer who hasn't spent a single point in scroll enhancements to scroll heal during a raid. Don't ask an artificer that doesn't have trap gear and boosts to deal with epic traps. Don't ask an artificer that refuses to use their blue bar to cast tactical detonation (trip!) or BB. They might buff you but other than that... xbow only.

I might not agree with every one of these ways of playing artificer, but they are valid in their own right.

Just like one shouldn't assume FvS=healer, one should not automatically assume artificer = epic trapper. I will be, but the next arti might not.

[deahamlet]

Two things I've noticed: Get a Cleric early and group fills FAST, don't get a Cleric early...Group takes forever to fill.

Seems 80/20 I'll be looking for clerics/FS/Bard with 2 or 2 spots left and of the 3 I'm gonna be most worried about the FS.

Within 2 mins of posting that my party needed a healer (I don't need one in Tor really so it almost slipped my mind), I got a healer - we had only the one spot for healer left. When I posted for Reaver, I got one arcane who said she'd bring her healer if we didn't get healers. Didn't need to, we got 3 healers (all of them after we already had about 7 people). I wasn't even asking for healers at that time. Maybe it's my joky attitude in my LFM posts, maybe I'm just lucky.

One of the healers was a FvS, one was a healer/caster cleric and the last was a melee kind of battlecleric. We had zip problems with healing (first fail we had was due to being unlucky and the AOE casters dying in a 500 HP hit zapping disaster - no arcanes, no way to deal with air elementals), my blue bar was ridiculously at near 100% at all times from the DVs... and not even once did I fret whether or not the battlecleric or FvS were going to sufficiently heal.

Of course, this wasn't anything scary like LotB or Shroud.

Point is... a light attitude seems to attract divines a lot more. Nobody looks forward to being grieved and met with a oh so serious attitude.

Ask that FvS what he is, politely say "I'm sorry but we need a main healer" and everyone goes about their way.
It's no big deal.

[deahamlet]

And now to give my opinion... It's a long list of uselessness :P.

To be honest, it's always the player not the class. For every bad monk and barbarian I've met, I've met a great monk and barbarian (and I mean GREAT). That's my disclaimer.

So... monks and barbarian. useless useless useless. *wicked grin*

Monks and barbarians that run ahead pulling tons of mobs which inevitably go attack the arcanes and the divine. A monk I know ****ed off the healer so bad one day, if they weren't already friends, I think healer would have dropped party mid-quest. I admired his composure, I wanted to *****slap the monk. Oh and those same players do not bother to ever look back, always attack only the enemies in CC, ignore Firewall and BladeBarrier completely... and leave the arcane and divine enemies to the last (they attack mostly the melees)... My personal pet peeve is melees dying in the middle of my BB. Cracks me up. Wish I was the cleric so I could choose not to raise them. Or melees fighting next to the firewall instead of inside it. And taking major damage cause they're taking too long to kill the 6 guys around them.

Melees disguising themselves as arcanes... useless useless useless LMAO

Melee players who decide to roll a sorcerer and think they're still a monk. And die about 3 times from dogs tripping them. :P

Oh and melee players that think their DPS is oh so vital that they can't lay off for 1 minute to stop taking insane damage... and recover. And monks who run ahead at 25% health out of range of healer (who is not their personal nannybot anyway! stick with party, man!)... get surrounded by 3 huge guys and not for one second think to maybe run away from those guys and get back for some heals. Ding ding ding ding and more ding.

Monks with **** reflex save who decide to test traps with their biceps (despite the party leader having invited me precisely to deal with traps for divine SP efficiency and extra XP)... and die. On a pure max XP run filled with TRs on their 2nd or 3rd life.

Rogues... oh my lord, rogues... *giggles*

Rogues who go "let me sneak up to the boss and assassinate him". Yes, we are all here to sit and watch you play. Even more awesome when it fails *grin*. Or rogues who are pretty much piking half the time. It's shameful when I have to rescue a rogue. It's even more shameful when the rogue is squishier than my arcane. Pfft.

Oh yeah... last one.
Melees who decide to take on an optional boss without the two ranged toons around cause they are so badass... and manage to get themselves and the cleric killed. They should be ashamed... being rescued by an AA ranger and a puny little wizard. Tsk tsk tsk. Yep, the ranger and my wizard, we killed the boss and backpacked the melees and the cleric through respawning enemies to the shrine.

-----------------
What's the common theme?

Bad players. Bad team players. I play self-reliant toons. I play solo a lot. But when I'm in a group, it's about the group. I defend the squishies. I hit the hardest hitters first to save the poor squishies from death. I am self-reliant so the divine can focus their SP on others. I don't keep track of kills, I don't care who killed my target... if the wizard slaps an FoD on my target, I'm happy, unlike the melee who is ****ed that I killed the three dudes before he got to them.
Point is... it's not the class, it's the player.

If there's only interest in completion and fun... there's no need to begrudge anything. Did the enemies get killed? Did we do this with minimal damage and death? YAY.

With that attitude, the toon can be AA, can be rogue, can be bard, can be... the lowest DPSer on this side of the universe, I'd still take them first and foremost over the greatest DPS dude with a bad selfish attitude.

And that's it out of me.

[gavijal]

244 replays and I got bunch of neg rep for making this thread... fascinating ...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

244 replays and I got bunch of neg rep for making this thread... fascinating ...

While I feel for you. It is still my duty to point you towards the forum rules - one is no longer allowed to say that one has received negative rep for a post. If you have problems with the neg rep, just pm a dev and he/she will fix it if it's undeserved.

[Chai]

Bleh. Artificers. Saw only 2 builded good enough. all others are nto able to do trap on epic. Giiiimps.

Any int build arty should be able to trap in epics. Ive seen quite a few who do.

[Chai]

While I feel for you. It is still my duty to point you towards the forum rules - one is no longer allowed to say that one has received negative rep for a post. If you have problems with the neg rep, just pm a dev and he/she will fix it if it's undeserved.

Theres an entire thread that talks about this, and I have not seen anyone disappear mysteriously, or stop talking about it, which they would likely do if they received a warning. MODs were up in there from time to time replying to questions as well.

Rules lawyers always use this in online disputes btw, because if they cant justify their point logically, they certainly will report every little technicality while interpreting words posted in the way that most looks like its breaking the rules. Pretty soon everything posted in disagreement with what they say is an insult, trolling, or violates some specific rule that was written in 2006 when the first incarnation of the boards was in beta.

Theres the spirit of the rules and theres the letter of the rules. From what Ive seen the spirit is enforced rather than everything written being held as absolute.

Please mods/devs, do away with the rep system. All it is is a griefing button for vets to put newbies into automod status with, while being protected due to "cant talk about" being written into the rules.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Theres an entire thread that talks about this, and I have not seen anyone disappear mysteriously, or stop talking about it, which they would likely do if they received a warning. MODs were up in there from time to time replying to questions as well.

Rules lawyers always use this in online disputes btw, because if they cant justify their point logically, they certainly will report every little technicality while interpreting words posted in the way that most looks like its breaking the rules. Pretty soon everything posted in disagreement with what they say is an insult, trolling, or violates some specific rule that was written in 2006 when the first incarnation of the boards was in beta.

Theres the spirit of the rules and theres the letter of the rules. From what Ive seen the spirit is enforced rather than everything written being held as absolute.

Please mods/devs, do away with the rep system. All it is is a griefing button for vets to put newbies into automod status with, while being protected due to "cant talk about" being written into the rules.

Wait a minute, why are you implying that I'm somehow *in* this discussion. I've made one statement in this thread that no one has replied to, and then this last post.

If you so blindly hate me that you insult me with this out of the blue then I suggest that you ignore me. And if this wasn't directed at me, then I suggest that you do not quote me.

Furthermore, the rep rules were changed *very* recently (about 3 months or so?), and it was then this rule came into effect. So some random exaggerated rant about 2006 and rules leading to the end of the world isn't really relevant.

[FranOhmsford]

Within 2 mins of posting that my party needed a healer (I don't need one in Tor really so it almost slipped my mind), I got a healer - we had only the one spot for healer left. When I posted for Reaver, I got one arcane who said she'd bring her healer if we didn't get healers. Didn't need to, we got 3 healers (all of them after we already had about 7 people). I wasn't even asking for healers at that time. Maybe it's my joky attitude in my LFM posts, maybe I'm just lucky.

One of the healers was a FvS, one was a healer/caster cleric and the last was a melee kind of battlecleric. We had zip problems with healing (first fail we had was due to being unlucky and the AOE casters dying in a 500 HP hit zapping disaster - no arcanes, no way to deal with air elementals), my blue bar was ridiculously at near 100% at all times from the DVs... and not even once did I fret whether or not the battlecleric or FvS were going to sufficiently heal.

Of course, this wasn't anything scary like LotB or Shroud.

Point is... a light attitude seems to attract divines a lot more. Nobody looks forward to being grieved and met with a oh so serious attitude.

Ask that FvS what he is, politely say "I'm sorry but we need a main healer" and everyone goes about their way.
It's no big deal.

There's always one who has to say that they got the perfect group when you say something like I said in my previous post.

I DID NOT say that not getting a cleric first always left you with a long wait - just that that happens a lot.

I DID NOT say that I grief players who join my LFMs in any way.

I DID say that if u get a cleric early chances are you're group will fill much faster.

I DID say that you have to be careful with Fav Souls {Esp WF} as there are a few out there who don't like having to heal.

I've had amazing groups where I've had five players waiting on a Cleric/FS/Bard - I've had terrible groups where the Cleric was the first to click the LFM.

Last night I had an LFM up for Devil Assault elite - Cleric was second to join - Group Filled, Cleric afk - Cleric had to be booted - LFM went back up Fav Soul joined instantly.
Fav Soul died while attempting to cast unqickened mass heal on 1st wave {1st 3 waves before shrine that is} Another party member /deathed and left party, FS having been ressed DCs - I called for a reset and released.

Other 3 decided to stay in - good on em but I wasn't taking chances - Got a tell off one of them later saying that they'd completed with a hire - As party leader I would have preferred they join me in releasing and resetting but No worries and congratz.

I set up another group - Cleric rejoined, got 2 amazing Sorcs, a PM and a Pally. One of the best groups I've ever had.

Both times Cleric joined early - two totally different outcomes.

[Chai]

Wait a minute, why are you implying that I'm somehow *in* this discussion. I've made one statement in this thread that no one has replied to, and then this last post.

If you so blindly hate me that you insult me with this out of the blue then I suggest that you ignore me. And if this wasn't directed at me, then I suggest that you do not quote me.

Furthermore, the rep rules were changed *very* recently (about 3 months or so?), and it was then this rule came into effect. So some random exaggerated rant about 2006 and rules leading to the end of the world isn't really relevant.

The post isnt about you, however, if you post, you may be quoted to reference what the post is referring to. What I said is perfectly relevant. I also have 79 cases of it now on file, and this after I was told it doesnt happen very often.

Your advice is good advice but in his shoes Id take it a step further due to the pattern I recognize here (recent join data, gray pip, lots of neg rep given etc)

The pattern is: New guy posts opinion, rep-griefed into automod status or approaching automod status, simply due to disagreement in matter of opinion on semi anon internet forum where they arent allowed to talk about it.

Gavijal, I recommend doing more than just asking for the rep to be removed. I recommend asking for review of every situation similar to this where the griefing button is being mashed because of disagreement with something you posted (which is against the rules). When people see a recent join date they know its real easy to put you into automod status due to how the scaling rep system works.

[bigolbear]

my opinion:

The statisticaly worst class in the game is fighter (brings only DPS+minimal CC or tanking, and compared to casters DPS is poor - and this is not a NEW thing, defence requires the use of a second party slot for a 'healer') - It is however fairly easy to build and play, thus most fighters in pugs will be atleast middle of the road useful. Barbs (non frenzy berserkers) also fall into this category. Id consider Frenzy berserkers to be a serious DPS option because although they certainly do require a baby sitter they have to potential to cause massive damage to groups of enemies in the same way a caster can.

However in pugs.....

Its normaly rangers, paladins, monks and rogues that operate below par. The reason is very simple: These classes all cover multiple roles (fighting - mele and range, buffing, CC, healing, debuffing) Any of these classes will not be putting out the same damage as a half decent fighter or barb but they all get additional benefits. The problem is that most newer players will not be making full use of these benefits and will instead be plaing one of these more complicated versatile classes just like they would play a fighter.

None of these classes SHOULD need a healer in regular questing - raids are a fair exception to this rule.
ALL of these classes can provide bufs to the party or debufs to the enemy.
All have access to crowd control abilites that given careful play can be even more effective than a wizard. (eg bluff pulling for rogues)

To many times I see rogues and monks played and built like barbs, rangers that dont understand they have BOTH mele and ranged options, paladins and rangers that seem to be unaware they have a mana bar.

ITs these midle of the road classes that are the hardest to play well, and it shows in that many are played very badly indeed, looking at buffing alone a well played ranger or pally can save the cleric/fvs/wizy/sorc 400+ mana in bufs at the start of each quest.

[countfitz]

Off topic, but on topic to the thread derailing up top.

As a divine player (Four capped divines, no other toons) I pretty much only join PUG groups now a days that already have another "healer" (at least a WF FvS or battlecleric or bard) and in raids only groups that already have 2.

Most raid groups I join end up 4-5 divines, 4-5 arcanes, and the rest whatever. I still don't get why so many people roll non-divine/arcane toons.

Not saying they can't be played well, but the same quality player is going to do better on a divine/arcane than a non-divine/arcane.

Shade excluded.

Edit: A GOOD player is going to do better on an arcane/divine. A crappy player is probably going to do better playing a Barb and hitting autoattack.

Once again, Shade excluded.

[deahamlet]

There's always one who has to say that they got the perfect group when you say something like I said in my previous post.

I DID NOT say that not getting a cleric first always left you with a long wait - just that that happens a lot.

I DID NOT say that I grief players who join my LFMs in any way.

I DID say that if u get a cleric early chances are you're group will fill much faster.

I DID say that you have to be careful with Fav Souls {Esp WF} as there are a few out there who don't like having to heal.

I've had amazing groups where I've had five players waiting on a Cleric/FS/Bard - I've had terrible groups where the Cleric was the first to click the LFM.

Last night I had an LFM up for Devil Assault elite - Cleric was second to join - Group Filled, Cleric afk - Cleric had to be booted - LFM went back up Fav Soul joined instantly.
Fav Soul died while attempting to cast unqickened mass heal on 1st wave {1st 3 waves before shrine that is} Another party member /deathed and left party, FS having been ressed DCs - I called for a reset and released.

Other 3 decided to stay in - good on em but I wasn't taking chances - Got a tell off one of them later saying that they'd completed with a hire - As party leader I would have preferred they join me in releasing and resetting but No worries and congratz.

I set up another group - Cleric rejoined, got 2 amazing Sorcs, a PM and a Pally. One of the best groups I've ever had.

Both times Cleric joined early - two totally different outcomes.

All right, all right .
I might point out that there was your mistake going in with full party on DA elite. :P My favourite person in the world is one of those FvS dudes you dislike... and he solo runs DA elite all day long... we pair every couple of days and manage it even with 2 dudes piking in the corner and comparing epeen sizes by number of (nonexistent) kills.
Mind you, he only needs to cast a cure or heal on me (and maybe if I'm unlucky a rez) once per wave so he is free to kill the heck out of things without having to nannybot me.

Can't we have conversations? I was giving examples solely from when I posted an LFM, I generally have rarely been in a party waiting forever for a healer... the only exception has always been, if you have 4 melees in a group, a bit of a hard time getting a healer. Every single time we had 2 casters in group, healer came asap.

I personally don't understand the gripe about FvS but that's cause my toons manage just fine with some cures here and there. Unless it's some intense raid, I don't give a hoot whether they're a very strong Quickened Heal bot.

Now we're just having a conversation, don't get all up in arms, I'm just saying things from my experience.

[Aashrym]

So the general consensus is as follows?

Top quality classes would be artificer, druid (when released), favored soul, and monk as premium classes. Included with this would be sorcerer and wizard as store pot generators.

Second stringers would be barbarian, bard, cleric, and fighter.

Who let these guys in group would be paladin, ranger, and rogue.

Okay, less a consensus and more conspiracy theory regarding which classes seem to get more development attention than others.


Disclaimer: this post is not serious and might not be an accurate comparison.

[Anthios888]

Cleric

[FranOhmsford]

All right, all right .
I might point out that there was your mistake going in with full party on DA elite. :P My favourite person in the world is one of those FvS dudes you dislike... and he solo runs DA elite all day long... we pair every couple of days and manage it even with 2 dudes piking in the corner and comparing epeen sizes by number of (nonexistent) kills.
Mind you, he only needs to cast a cure or heal on me (and maybe if I'm unlucky a rez) once per wave so he is free to kill the heck out of things without having to nannybot me.

Can't we have conversations? I was giving examples solely from when I posted an LFM, I generally have rarely been in a party waiting forever for a healer... the only exception has always been, if you have 4 melees in a group, a bit of a hard time getting a healer. Every single time we had 2 casters in group, healer came asap.

I personally don't understand the gripe about FvS but that's cause my toons manage just fine with some cures here and there. Unless it's some intense raid, I don't give a hoot whether they're a very strong Quickened Heal bot.

Now we're just having a conversation, don't get all up in arms, I'm just saying things from my experience.

Yes Fav Souls are awesome soloers.

My gripe is about grouping - in fact this thread is about grouping.

In that example I was playing my lvl 17 Rogue Mech / Fighter {2 levels of fighter}. The LFM was 17-20. The FS was lvl 18. The FS died before the first shrine because the FS decided to try and cast an unquickened mass heal with a mass of enemies on top of us and with the FS on a tenth of her hp at the time.

I'm not a fan of quicken myself - Not a fan of mass heal to be honest - I just don't understand why the FS tried that instead of just hitting mass cure crit.

I'm not one of the uber-elite - I know I can't solo the likes of Devil Assault - Just because some people can doesn't mean all should have to - I have no doubt 3 of the 5 people and possibly all 5 that joined the second group could have soloed it and I'm extremely grateful they decided to group with me instead.

[Downgreyd]

If you won't answer an OPINION question, then shutup. He askes for OPINIONS of most useless class, not useless responses. Your answer is flawed as it is not an answer but an argument.

[bhgiant]

The class not played well.

Obligatory fix stuff statement.

[stormsongs]

i'm always a little shaky accepting rangers, i always seem to attract aa's that seem to think their bowkiteing is substantially more dps then allowing the group to beat on a mob, and waste my time running in circles or using fearsome armor. fearsome armor is a insta-kick unles yer soloing.