PUG lfm etiquette

[Sarisa]

Both the LFM's mentioned here and the ADQ1 ones are based off greed. The ADQ1 leader just wants all scroll chances going to them before bringing anyone else in. Still, I may join the ADQ1 ones and honour the LFM because they DID do the resource draining Swords part.

I won't ever join one of those "GIMME X SHARD OR ELSE" ones, because they want pulled through the content and still want their loot. And, this is from someone who has no desire to make an Epic Jidz, or Deneith Chain, or whatever else those people are looking for.

[SirValentine]

Having a little difficulty understanding what is expected from the dozens of "we are doing this quest but do not join if you need this awesome item that drops here" lfm that pop up everyday.. mostly for weapon shipment... is it just to increase the probability of the item dropping? if so are the folks joining for improving your number game expected to do anything? after all you want my loot...

They are usually not asking for all your loot. Usually just one bound-to-character and exclusive item that isn't useful to all toons.

You can still get regular loot, and boot ingredients, from Weapon Shipment, even if you agree to pass the Mysterious Bauble on.

[Shade]

You should always be respectable of group leaders, even if they are asking something you deem unreasonable.

If you think it's unreasonable, the simple solution is not to join.

To join while agreeing to their terms and purposely grief another player by intentionaly breaking their rules, is far worse behaviour then someone putting up an LFM you may deem "greedy".

Greed is one thing. Lies, deceit and purposely wasting a players time are another.

As long as the rules are clearly specificly in the lfm and group chat before/as you join, breaking them is pretty dis-respectful.

If you REALLY want to the loot on said quest, and really think you can contribute enough to be deserving of it, just send a tell ask if that would be ok.. Joining wihile agreeing to intentionally sabotage someones desires is very rude.

Personally I don't put up "Your loot is my loot lfms"..

But I do put up "I'll buy your X for X plat" lfms, and triple confirm that the player would be willing to sell the item to be in LFM/Tells/Group chat before accepting them.

And no I don't expect them to have any big contribution on the quests. I'll do the work, and even pay you for your time if you can agree to my terms.

Those that agree then come and loot the item purposely are quite rude imo. I don't get too upset about it, but I do squelch them for lying to me if nothing else.

[Ugumagre]

Join, get the item, loot it, /point, /laugh.

I am not sure... I was thinking more like /laugh and then /dance
But anyway... I never hit an LFM ... so, just my fantasy

[Ugumagre]

(snip)
So you admit you're a griefer then?

-1. Because people like you deserve to get a wake up call.

Maybe I am wrong, but stating that you -1 rep someone, is against the forum rules.

You are causing him/her distress and is a provocation. If you want to neg rep him/her, do it privately, and that´s it.
It causes unnecesary flame and a dirail.

[Arshan]

I've put up several (>100) "farming eATDQ1, please be willing to pass the seal of the marilith chain". Even if i eventually didnt get it from there, it was a good way to multiply by 6 your chance to get it. I understand these lfm perfectly. Though politeness is a must of course. But that goes without saying in my opinion.

[Galeria]

I think the wording could be more effective but I generally assume those are kids (or kids in maturity level) both that start those or join them just to grief the leader. It's not going to end well in most cases. Drama, drama, drama.

I think in any co-op game like this that throws perfect strangers of all ages, skill levels and temperaments together to accomplish a shared goal... drama is inevitable.

Apparently a lot of people prefer to stir the pot rather than just stay out of it.

[somenewnoob]

I did see a free epic completion as long as you give me this if it drops........I don't think anything is wrong with that if you jump in, quest is about over, free completion and loot pull. That is ok IMO. No work for me to get a token is worth me giving you that if it drops for me.

[Paleus]

As has been pointed out the best way to deal with LFMs like this is too simply not join the group. Even better, put up your own group for the quest without the restriction or say something like "your loot is your loot." I do see LFMs like this very rarely on Argo.

One time though I did join a pug chrono (not epic, so 5-20 range) where the leader was a level 5 who had posted "Looking for Hellstroke Axe." The LFM didnt say "give it to me," or "don't loot it," so I think a majority of those running it just assumed the guy was adding color to the LFM because, c'mon its a hellstroke axe, whoopededoo. Well, he wasn't adding color and absolutely flipped out and dropped group when someone had the audacity to loot his greataxe. So, if you're gonna be the type to want other people to run you through a quest and hand over their loot to, all I can say is you need to be quite explicit about it.......so I can avoid your LFM.

[Unreliable]

yep, i'll join anyways and just loot it if I need it. (I won't loot on a non-viable toon of course)

Player's who put those lfm's up deserve to get a wake up call.

Im sorry, but if you join a group where the leader is asking for a specific item and you agree to his condition and then do no abide by his condition, I think this is wrong.

However dumb it may be, if you do not like the conditions set by the leader in the LFM just DONT JOIN. Make your own group instead, or wait for another.

For other quests like weapon shipment I dont see this being too big of a deal, but when I fully clear quests like epic ATDQ pre raid on epic and ask that party members who join abide by 1 rule and pass a spellstore shard if they get it (In exchange for saving them 20-45 minutes of time) I would be really upset if they did not listen and took it for themselves even after I did all the work.

[TheDjinnFor]

Maybe I am wrong, but stating that you -1 rep someone, is against the forum rules.

You are causing him/her distress and is a provocation. If you want to neg rep him/her, do it privately, and that´s it.

It causes unnecesary flame and a dirail.

And stealth neg repping someone can be seen as wrong, since it causes people distress when it happens and provokes them into starting threads about it or derailing the topic. It goes both ways, and it really just depends on who the person is and whether or not they can handle criticism. Whether or not its anonymous doesn't change things.

I always tell people that I've neg repped them and I've yet to be told off for it. Maybe I'll get an infraction, maybe I won't.

Whether or not the conditions set forth on the LFM and agreements between players can and should be violated on a whim is very on topic when it comes to "PUG lfm etiquette".

My point was that there's no real reason to have an lfm up like that, generally I'll join them and have a good time with whoever it is. I also will usually say something like "Hey I'm gonna run this once or twice on my caster, then a few more times on someone who doesn't need it. That way I'll toss it to ya if I get it on one of them"

See how that works? It's a positive instead of a negative.

You really should ask before assuming, you know what they say about that.

Oh come on. You made yourself quite clear when you said you'd "join anyways" and "just loot it" to give them "a wakeup call". There's not much left to assume there. If you want to tell me you made a mistake and that's not what you meant when you wrote that, fine, but really now.

How else do you suppose people will interpret those words? There's a big different between "I'd join anyways and just loot it to give him a wakeup call" and something like "I'd still join, but offer to do it a few times on a melee toon who doesn't need it in exchange for the opportunity to run on my caster who does". I'm paraphrasing you here, but you get the point, right? The first one describes you willfully breaking an agreement, and the second one describes you proposing a counter-offer.

You don't know me or have any idea who I am mate.

really? dude how many threads have you and I posted in, you should **** well know by know that's not how I roll.

seriously?

Look, you're right. I don't know who you are past a few posts on the forums. Maybe you're a real nice guy in real life. But what you wrote was pretty clear.

I said if I need it i'll loot it. I specifically said i won't loot if I don't need it.

The difference between a person who steals something because he wants to spite the person and not because he wants it and a person who steals something because he wants it is the difference between a griefer and a thief. So you're right, in a sense, but that doesn't change much.

People who claim they'll loot it *only* on toons they *need* it on are still breaking the clear agreement that was made (...assuming a clear agreement is made). It's like a guy who promises to mail you icy burst kits in exchange for plat who then bails on you once you hand him the plat; it's a scam, a robbery. You make a promise and then you break it out of your own self interest. If you want to say you'll make an alternate offer, then that's a different case... but for everyone else here who thinks its okay to just steal a bauble, this is for you.

Picture this: you see an LFM up that says "want to buy icy burst kits 5k plat" and you click the LFM. He says "meet in marketplace 1", you both get there and he passes you the 5k plat. Never mind the fact that icy bursts aren't worth as low as 5k plat and he really isn't giving you much at all for them, how is breaking the agreement okay by bailing on him with the icy burst kits still in your inventory? Is it "your icy burst kits, your choice" or something? What's the difference between "I'd join anyways and just loot the Bauble to give him a wakeup call" with "I'd join anyways and just take the 5k plat to give him a wakeup call"? Stealing or griefing, it's wrong either way.

If he tells you that he wants the bauble/seal/xyz and you'll have to pass it to him if you want in on his party, then you're no better than a scammer or a thief if you join anyways and just loot it when it drops for you. It's true that "Your Loot, Your Choice" still applies... but you clearly "chose" to "give" it up beforehand and are now breaking that promise, either out of your own self interest or because you want to grief someone. It isn't yours anymore, particularly when the quest is done and you've opener the chest: it's like those Icy Burst kits that are sitting in your inventory after a buyer forks over the plat for them. You certainly have control over them for the few seconds after, but it doesn't belong to you anymore, it belongs to the person you agreed to give it to. It's just theft, gift-wrapped with a bow.

[Gkar]

I've been known to start a competing LFM that either says "and in my group you keep your loot if you want", or, if I'm really in a mood, "offering $100Kplat if you pass XXX to me"

Let's just say it makes the original LFM poster very angry...

[danotmano1998]

Nothing wrong with posting LFM's that are asking you to hand you specific loot if you join.

By joining an LFM that specifically asks for an item and not giving it up if it drops, what you're doing is worse, IMO. Why? Because you're joining the group, thereby agreeing to the terms posted, either implied or consciously.

If you're ok with not being honest, then more power to you.

What ever happened to the "A person's word is their bond" philosophy?


I'm not advocating these sorts of LFM's by any means. I don't join them. If I am farming a specific item, I'll run with guildies or friends that I trust. I'll ask them to help, and then in turn when they are farming an item, I'll jump in and do the same.

[Jinpo]

I think those type of LFMs are ludicrous, would not join them and would publicly mock them if I could. But if you click to join you are agreeing to their rules, and if you take the item you are a thief plain and simple. Don't join something you don't agree with.

[Ungood]

Im sorry, but if you join a group where the leader is asking for a specific item and you agree to his condition and then do no abide by his condition, I think this is wrong.

However dumb it may be, if you do not like the conditions set by the leader in the LFM just DONT JOIN. Make your own group instead, or wait for another.

Exactly! Really. No is forcing you to join this LFM's. If you do not like them, do not join them.

[Kevorkian]

I will occasionally put up LFM's for the Weapons Shipment for inviting non-blue bar classes. I state free loot pull, looking for bauble, but I don't even post the LFM until at least one dot is up during the end fight. By the time any joiners get there, the quest is done and I'm waiting by an unopened chest. If you don't want any other items that drop besides an item that is useless to you as a non-spellcasting toon, feel free to not accept free loot from my already completed run.

[somenewnoob]

I will occasionally put up LFM's for the Weapons Shipment for inviting non-blue bar classes. I state free loot pull, looking for bauble, but I don't even post the LFM until at least one dot is up during the end fight. By the time any joiners get there, the quest is done and I'm waiting by an unopened chest. If you don't want any other items that drop besides an item that is useless to you as a non-spellcasting toon, feel free to not accept free loot from my already completed run.

I'd join something like that any day. Free loot pull for this piece I can't use anyways if I pull it. Definitely ok in my book. Both parties benefit, I get some quick loot for zero effort, and you get a greater chance to get the loot item you want.

[Indoran]

I would not mind if the LFMs would be more...polite?

Like:
"I really need to get X item, anyone wants to help me?"

Instead of:
"GTFO if you want the same item as me IT'S MINE"

Greedy jerks.

This... even so I just avoid those greedy guys I tried to give them a chance helping them in other quests and they behaved immature and selfishly... now I just take note of those players and avoid them like the pest

[bendover]

Why does this have to be a big deal? Who makes up the rules of what is etiquette and what isn't? Some man, or a group of people? If he wants his lfm to say whatever he wants, there shouldn't be a thinking twice about what he's allowed to say (with obvious exceptions none of which would be relevant to this subject matter).

[Chilldude]

Clicking join is not an end user license agreement. However, I think all the drama here is completely caused by the phrasing of the LFM. Text is so very ineffective at conveying emotion and intent.

Don't join if you want X isn't necessarily intended to be rude, but it is a bit misguided. You are needlessly excluding people that could help you obtain the item faster.

If one wanted a muckbane, they're likely to get one much faster if they put up Let's get a Muckbane! rather than Don't join if you want a Muckbane, precisely because they are attracting other people who are also interested in spending time farming it. A full group could run Durk's quickly and repeatedly and as each person got their Muckbane, the odds for the rest would go up. I can't speak for everyone, but if I joined a group of people looking for a Muckbane, if I got it on the first run I would stay and help the others and pass along further Muckbanes. I think a majority of others would as well.