Is multi-class only good for solo play?

[Lodestone99]

Know what you are doing. If you are going to play some weird rogue/cleric/sorc variation have a **** good reason for doing so (and no i dont mean because you think its cool) and make sure that you can perform as well at your chosen role as a straight build while bringing something else to the table. A bad multiclass (like the one above who i played an adventure with recently) doesnt have a good grasp of any of the classes they are playing and for example couldnt see any danger, had pitiful reflex saves, couldnt find trap boxes or disarm them and so tried to run through traps and survive (somehow) by healing himself.

A good multiclass build has a focus in mind but also attempts to fill the roles of the classes it has. Dips into rogue and monk levels happen a lot because of they shore up one dimensional builds by offering skills/evasion/saves/ac bonuses to classes that lack them. Prestige enhancements are some of the best reasons to multiclass but again the focus should be on what you want the character to do. For example my 13/6/1 rogue/barbarian/fighter build was built as a dps build (warforged power attks, acrobat speed increase, sneak attack and frenzy can be a pretty good beating) but because he also had rogue levels primarily I made sure that he was always geared properly to be an effective thief. Will he be good as a rogue at epics? Hell no! But the end goal was dps not being an effective thief. Proper gear helps a lot and I would definetly recommend 32pt build as they can turn a lame multiclass into something awesome or at least smooth out potential rough edges - unless you for some reason have a slew of +2 or +3 tomes lying around. But thats just my opinion and experience, I'm sure there is more uber out there.

[hakoist]

My main is a 12ftr/6rgr/2rog
kensei manyshot umd
sprint boost,wand,scroll
trap skill
yay love it

alter is 16bard/2ftr/2bbn
with better gear,it has more HP than my ftr with gs,madstones,bbn rage
viable dps
WC is strange, WC need BBN RAGE!!
ultimate buffer except resistance arrh
scroll use is great

currently leveling a pure monk and the goal is 12ftr/8monk :S

Have fun multiclassing

[ThePrincipal]

Go big --- 5 classes!

do a 12fighter/6pally/2rogue with Helf racial Arcane Archer (counts as ranger) and Monk Dilly!

Monk AC and Healing Amp
AA for slayer + manshot
rogue for umd, sneak attk, evasion
pally for saves, smites, divine sacrifice, mental toughness & sp for AA
fighter for kensei, haste boost IV and enough feats to make this work on paper

[sdrocky]

Ive splashed a fighter with a rogue. Mainly for sneaking, bluffing and sneak attack. I like to hunt. At the moment its 3rd ftr/1st rogue. I intend to splash a level of rogue ever 4 fighter. Should end up with 16th ftr/4th rogue. Im running a pure fighter up at the same time and am trying to keep them at about the same rank.

Rogue gives me benifits such as faster sneaking and rogue sneak attack bonus's. And at lower levels i can pick locks and disable traps. It also,if you splash rogue first, gives you way more points to spend on skills at char creation.

Lets see how it goes and who's the better hunter.

Only time and experience will tell.

[r3dl4nce]

Should end up with 16th ftr/4th rogue.

No no no. That's very bad.
If you want rogue just to disable traps/open lock, 1 level is more than sufficient. If you want a useful character who can dps and disable traps, you could go 12 fighter (KensaiII - power surge is super!) / 7 rogue / 1 barbarian. You get power surge, snieak attack from rogue levels and some rage for boss fights... Or even better, blitz build 12fighter/6barbarian/2rogue

[hakoist]

Go big --- 5 classes!

do a 12fighter/6pally/2rogue with Helf racial Arcane Archer (counts as ranger) and Monk Dilly!

Monk AC and Healing Amp
AA for slayer + manshot
rogue for umd, sneak attk, evasion
pally for saves, smites, divine sacrifice, mental toughness & sp for AA
fighter for kensei, haste boost IV and enough feats to make this work on paper

you wont have enough feat for melee
the Helf angels dont have enough feat even rgr grant a lot of needed feat

[santiago66]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I should have said at the start that I am a newish player and have not had a character reach lev 20 yet. The toon I'm finding a bit of a spare part is Wiz 5, Rog 3 at the moment. I like playing the character but in a tough quest with a group of lev 8-10 single classes, she's a bit of a liability.

Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.

I've had a go with the character planner but as someone said, without good knowledge of the enhancements and what is most important at high level it's a bit of a pointless exercise.

[ThePrincipal]

you wont have enough feat for melee
the Helf angels dont have enough feat even rgr grant a lot of needed feat

sounds like a challenge

you'll get access to AA because pally can take Mental Toughness. Anything else you do to improved ranged, thf, or twf is up to you. Fighter 12 gives you 7 bonus feats. If you need more, take 2 monk and rogue dilly. Either way it's a monster build excellent for solo and it's 5 classes

EDIT:
7 base, 7 fighter bonus, 2 monk bonus = 16 feats. this will get ur kensei 2 with khopesh specialization, AA, and Rogue Dilly.

Khopesh
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Weapon Focus: Ranged
Weapon Specialization
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Power Attk
Mental Toughness
Point Blank
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Rogue Dilly
Toughness

[Phidius]

...
Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.
...

Highly recommended. My first was a halfling sorc named Phidius Ent.

[flaggson]

Id have to say this is smart.... You learn a lot just going through it .... And suddenly things start clicking together in your head... At this point yer not goin into multiclassing blind but instead with eyes wide open.

.

Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.

[ThePrincipal]

While it requires more planning to multiclass, mixing melee classes is pretty fool proof. Same as with single class, pick your fighting style and any prestidge requirement feats. make sure you plan the order in which to take your classes as you level up and you're golden.

[Firesmall_at]

No Cleric with a Fighter splash on here.... R u kidding me!

And don't listen to the 2 weapon fighting is better than 2 handed fighting. Only in a perfect world with super fast computers and no lag. It is much easier to hit and do splash damage with a longer weapon. 2 handed builds are easier to build and equip too.

__________________________

Awe heck here he is. I didn't reduce wisdom though and still took the fighter lvls, but it is 32pt build. Bought a +2 Wisdom tome on sale.

28Pt.
STR15, CON13, CHR13 (one level up for 14) and take DM1 for Burst Preq on this build. The other Burst Preq are not that great.
[Take STR13, CON13 and CHR15. Level up 1 in CHR for 16 and DM2. But like I said STR is better IMHO.]
With 2HW STR is 1.5X with DMG.

With these stats you can level up in WIS or STR. I went Wisdom even with the 2 fighter levels in this build. Spell focus feats help with wisdom DC cks to saves against your fav spells. Spell pen feat is situational and not used as often.


No such thing as a Battlecleric. Just a poorly played Cleric that does not 1-Offensive Cast/Crowd Control, 2-Heal, and 3-Melee.... in that order

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

T3 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 1249 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 5
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    16
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    24
Charisma             14                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     7.5
Bluff                 2                     2
Concentration         6                    25.5
Diplomacy             2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  3                     9
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     2
Jump                  2                     3
Listen                3                     7
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     7
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble               1                    1
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II

I just don't think you will ever get the STR up to melee good no matter what you do because the enhancments are not there to melee. Just a couple of feats llike power attack and imp critical for moderate STR.

You see melee builds get enhancements to power attack, and critical multipliers. Ie. my Pally has an extra 2X to his critical smites. And a Borc gets Orc power attack and Barbarien power attack stacked plus rages.

However, the 2 FTR lvls or some go 2 monk is worth it if you want to do it. It is a lot of fun to play if you play it right and don't think you are a "Battlecleric." No such thing.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________

No such thing as a Battlecleric. Just a poorly played Cleric that does not 1-Offensive Cast/Crowd Control, 2-Heal, and 3-Melee.... in that order

[Thrudh]

My build is an Arcane Archer Dual Kopesh trapmonkey self buffer. 11 ranger, 8 wizard, 1 rogue.

You make me happy...

When the cap was 16, my favorite character for a long time was a 11/5 Ranger/wizard. When the cap was raised to 20, I got him to 12/7/1 ranger/wizard/rogue...

Very fun character... Extremely self-sufficient.

But, after a while, you collect magic items that emulate all your spells (even lasting longer), so you realize there's not as much point to the wizard levels.

But I agree that a ranger/wizard is a fun build. (You don't get a whole lot of ranger bonuses for the levels past level 12, so trading those levels for some spells or some feats is a good deal)

[JasonJi72]

Thanks Thrudh.

Yeah, I know you can replace many spells with clickies later, but I get to use them throughout his carreer.

Like you said, I don't loose much by taking wizard levels, and it actually gives me more SP than I would have as a Ranger (I think).

My goal was to make a fun to play flavor character anyway. I plan on TRing it to add ranger lives to a 12bard / 6ranger / 2 rogue build. I figured I'd get the past lives I want with a fresh character so I could still play my capped multi-bard lol.

Stoneskin, displacement, haste, fireshield, firewall, and start killing with either kopeshes or a bow.

I really wish they would implement bladesingers for elves and drow. Here's to wishing! *cheers*

I just hope my next ranger life build will be even crazier! *Laughs like a mad scientist*

[Entelech]

I think a big part of your "Multiclasses have trouble getting groups" perception is a question of skewed sampling.

Specifically, you're joining PUG's. That's the real issue.

The PUG population has a higher concentration of...well...people who don't have regular groups. Sometimes this is because they're new, sometimes this is personal choice or RL issues...and sometimes it's because they're dumber than a sackful of hammers and nobody will group with them twice.

Even Hjealmee, the 6-Int Barbarian can usually figure out what a pure class is supposed to do in a PUG:

Cleric -- Heal me until you run out of SP, potions, scrolls, and money.
Wizard -- Haste me, and cast Repair if I am a Warforged.
Sorcerer -- Haste me and use Repair/Reconstruct scrolls if I am Warforged.
Rogue -- Hide in the back and disarm traps after I run through them.
Favored Soul -- Same as nannybot Cleric...
Fighter -- Roll his eyes while I showboat and brag about how uber I am...

You get the idea.

Teaming up with a Multiclass build requires (*gasp*) communication. It's something Hjealmee is terrified of, and avoids like the plague. Sometimes Hjealmee even learns to fake a thick foreign accent to avoid it.

Is it any wonder then, that players like Hjealmee fear and despise multiclassed characters...especially when they design, build and play them themselves?