Damage Boost Enhancements Changed...

[Yalann]

Apparently Class Damage Boosts as well as human versatility damage boosts are now becoming +25% weapon damage instead of +5 base damage at tier 4. This was nowhere in the release notes that I could find.

This is a rather significant change to not be included. As it stands, it would in many cases undo what game balance existed for melee DPS. A horc 20 Barbarian, for example, would do 10%+ more DPS than a horc 20 Kensei with the same epic setup instead of being balanced with similar DPS. This change applies to the damage boosts for FvS, Rogue, Barbarian, and human versatility based on testing.

Was this part of some future balance changes? Am I missing the bigger picture here? Some information about this would be useful...

[TheDjinnFor]

Apparently Class Damage Boosts as well as human versatility damage boosts are now becoming +25% weapon damage instead of +5 base damage at tier 4. This was nowhere in the release notes that I could find.

This is a rather significant change to not be included. As it stands, it would in many cases undo what game balance existed for melee DPS. A horc 20 Barbarian, for example, would do 10%+ more DPS than a horc 20 Kensei with the same epic setup instead of being balanced with similar DPS. This change applies to the damage boosts for FvS, Rogue, Barbarian, and human versatility based on testing.

Was this part of some future balance changes? Am I missing the bigger picture here? Some information about this would be useful...

iirc human damage boost can be used at the same time that class damage boost can. If they stack then I think we've found the new top DPS race...

edit: heck, even if its nonstacking humans just got a massive boost anyhow for all classes without a damage boost enhancement

[QuantumFX]

iirc human damage boost can be used at the same time that class damage boost can. If they stack then I think we've found the new top DPS race...

Close. You can use 2 different boosts at the same time. So, for a human rogue you could do Rogue Haste Boost and Human Damage Boost.

If this rumor is true it would definitely be good news for Frenzied Berzerkers.

[Tuney]

this +25% weapon damage... depends if it will be like how 'Point Blank Shot' will increase the 'BASE damage' of said ranged weapon by 2 or if it is a universal +25% damage with all your damage bonus in play.

[Felix_the_Rakshasa]

where are you seeing this change? I am on test now with rank IV Half Elf Human Versitility and it's still +5 damage

[TheDjinnFor]

where are you seeing this change? I am on test now with rank IV Half Elf Human Versitility and it's still +5 damage

rofl maybe helfs got kicked in the shins again this time...

[altrocks]

where are you seeing this change? I am on test now with rank IV Half Elf Human Versitility and it's still +5 damage

The text has not changed, but I have heard from several reputable people on Lama that testing is showing much higher numbers than what the +5 listed usually gives. Gonna have to wait for a Dev comment or update to the release notes to confirm any changes, but something has changed there, and for the better.

[Vanshilar]

where are you seeing this change? I am on test now with rank IV Half Elf Human Versitility and it's still +5 damage

Actually just tested on Lamannia, yeah half-elves are suffering the same erroneous description as humans regarding human versatility, but it's a percentage damage increase just like the class-based damage boost. So yeah it's working fine.

Testing was with the +1 starter dagger, which is 1d4 weapon damage, on a level 4 half elf. My str bonus and the +1 enhancement bonus makes it do 1d4+5 damage, so I should see damages of (6, 7, 8, 9). Verified that this was the case. I then activated versatility damage boost 2, which is +3 damage if it's the old version, so I would see damages of (9, 10, 11, 12), and +15% damage if it's the new version; +15% of (6, 7, 8, 9) would make the damages (6, 8, 9, 10). Verified that it's the latter case:



So yeah the screenshot pretty much sums it up. You can see the combat log damages of (6, 8, 9, 10) on the left, the inventory panel saying the damage is 1d4+5 on the right, and the enhancement description in the middle. I even won't mind if you bother to copy-paste the screenshot elsewhere because I don't know what's the big deal with going on Lamannia and getting screenshots of the enhancement description and why it would be restricted, but there it is. So yeah, it's confirmed that the half-elf human versatility damage boost description is wrong, it's giving the % damage increase just like the class-based one.

So yeah this makes things more interesting. Incidentally, for pure barbs, this damage will be "free" since you can activate damage boost during frenzy/death frenzy cooldown and thus not affect your activation timers, and will result in probably around a 13% increase in your overall DPS versus 0% fort (depending on gear), since your main damage (which is what the damage boost affects) when using the ESoS is around 80% of your overall DPS, which any self-respecting barbarian would know (those are just off-the-cuff estimates, not spreadsheet calculations). The more interesting case is how this will affect human and half-elf 18 barb / 2 fighter builds, since they will be able to use both fighter haste boost 1 and human versatility damage boost 4. Maybe my human respeccing to 18/2 wasn't a bad choice after all.

[Cold_Stele]

The more interesting case is how this will affect human and half-elf 18 barb / 2 fighter builds, since they will be able to use both fighter haste boost 1 and human versatility damage boost 4. Maybe my human respeccing to 18/2 wasn't a bad choice after all.

Surely it's HElf Ftr20 with eSOS who's benefitting most from this? SA damage is boosted, and they're not dependant upon (unboosted) elemental/frenzy damage for their DPS.

Human/HElf Barbs would have to spend an extra 10AP to buy HV IV (for damage) along with Barb DAM IV (for FB) to benefit from simultaneously using FHB I - don't know if that's worth the cost?

[Monkey_Archer]

Surely it's HElf Ftr20 with eSOS who's benefitting most from this? SA damage is boosted, and they're not dependant upon (unboosted) elemental/frenzy damage for their DPS.

Human/HElf Barbs would have to spend an extra 10AP to buy HV IV (for damage) along with Barb DAM IV (for FB) to benefit from simultaneously using FHB I - don't know if that's worth the cost?

Im not convinced on the merits of THF helf fighters yet... you get that 25% damage boost but loose 13 damage per swing for not being horc. A decently geared helf would average about ~90 damage per hit base damage and boost to ~112.5, while a horc would have a consistent 103 average without having to worry about activation times or running out of boosts. With sneak attacks the helf is definitely ahead while boosts last though... Overall the benefit vs horc is minor at best.

Horc THF barbarians are going to benefit the most from this change because unlike helves, they make no dps sacrifices to get damage boost. Helf fighters will only get the same benefit if they are TWF.

[Yalann]

Im not convinced on the merits of THF helf fighters yet... you get that 25% damage boost but loose 13 damage per swing for not being horc. A decently geared helf would average about ~90 damage per hit base damage and boost to ~112.5, while a horc would have a consistent 103 average without having to worry about activation times or running out of boosts. With sneak attacks the helf is definitely ahead while boosts last though... Overall the benefit vs horc is minor at best.

Horc THF barbarians are going to benefit the most from this change because unlike helves, they make no dps sacrifices to get damage boost. Helf fighters will only get the same benefit if they are TWF.

This is exactly the problem I have with this. It seems like a change that should have been included in an overall rebalance of races/classes in a single update. The overall result of this is going to be that all barbarians, rogues, FvS, and humans/helves who also use haste boost will be better. It is definitely nice for certain class/race setups.

This means that anything that doesn't fit into this list though, such as monks, paladins, rangers, non-human rogues, or non-human fighters, will be outright shafted. A horc fighter who could compete with horc barbs is now weaker since said barb gained DPS while the fighter gained nothing. Races like dwarves and elves now fall even further behind in everything.

This should really be implemented as part of an overall rebalancing of classes/races that focuses on improving poor feats, enhancements, and class features rather than introducing new ones. For instance, replacing the rather useless critical accuracy line with something for fighters to balance them vs barbarians in the same update, would be much better. Upgrading the racial weapon bonuses for races like dwarves/drow/elves would make them more appealing as well. Otherwise, this update just further pigeonholes top DPS into all being THF Horc barbarians or human/helf TWF haste boost builds.

[Stillwaters]

Apparently Class Damage Boosts as well as human versatility damage boosts are now becoming +25% weapon damage instead of +5 base damage at tier 4. This was nowhere in the release notes that I could find.

Wait.. WHAT???

How does it multiply? - if it is JUST the base wep damage melee/ranged are getting screwed.. Take a 2d10 (avg 11damage) wep, before that 11 turned into a 16, now it may very well be 13.5 (11x1.25)

if its on total wep damage, how does it interact with the new PBS feat or Crits?

[Dawnsfire]

This is huge if it is actually intended and not a bug. I can't imagine making a non-human melee if it stays this way.

I noticed my human rogue doing a bit more damage than I expected on Lam but 404 power leveled her to 20 and I thought I had just done the math wrong.

I hope we can get a Dev confirm one way or the other sometime. . .

[Felix_the_Rakshasa]

Made a new human barbarian


Listed as:
the barbarian damage boosts are 10%/15%/20%/25%
human boosts 2/3/4/5

when you use the human it is 10/15 (only had rank 2 on that character)

they are on different timers.. but clicking both doesn't give double the buffs

so you can have 10 shots of 25% but not 5 shots of 50%

[Vanshilar]

Hey this is a nice find. I tested on Lam today with 18/2 barb/fighter using ESoS, ignoring other damages (like frenzy damage) and focusing specifically on the main ("slash") damage:

Using fighter haste boost 1: 90.25 average damage per hit (76 hits)
Using barb damage boost 4: 112.56 average damage per hit (27 hits)

So yeah, it's giving a 25% damage increase on the weapon damage.

Figures. I just respecced my barbarian from pure to 18/2 fighter right before copying him over to Lam this week, for the fighter haste boost. Guess I'll have to scrounge up another heart.

P.S. The text for barbarian damage boost does explicitly say 25% more damage, as well as the combat log. Didn't check what human versatility said, though.

[Quarterling]

Hm... I wonder if Damage Boost IV also increases a rogue's sneak attack damage by 25% as well...

[Stillwaters]

Hm... I wonder if Damage Boost IV also increases a rogue's sneak attack damage by 25% as well...

Cmon Quarterling, you know that if us rogues want a decent boon from the Devs we need to sneak in there and STEAL one.
need i cite the helpless state changes we just went thru (sneak attack got BONED)
Im still interested in how this interacts with Point Blank Shots wep increase -

[Alanim]

Cmon Quarterling, you know that if us rogues want a decent boon from the Devs we need to sneak in there and STEAL one.
need i cite the helpless state changes we just went thru (sneak attack got BONED)
Im still interested in how this interacts with Point Blank Shots wep increase -

While testing it on casual kobold assault, I couldn't get it to work with point-blank shot at all, but then I died and it appeared to start working. Didn't test to see if it was working with general ranged combat...

The damage ranges I was testing at are so low that I couldn't even confirm if it was a 25% boost or a +3 damage boost. I was using human versatility II

point blank shot with +4 str and and +1 1d8 longbow was 20-21 max. when I was testing it I was getting the same results with human versatility II UNTIL I died, then I was getting 21 damage mostly at PBS range, and my max in the short time I got to test was 24, sadly that was on my last boost and after I had shrined, so I couldn't test more, it appears to be a bit buggy.

Oh yeah, I'd of used Ram's Might to make the increase larger, but I forgot about wisdom >.>

[Vanshilar]

Hm... I wonder if Damage Boost IV also increases a rogue's sneak attack damage by 25% as well...

Looks like it. Testing was done on my barbarian by stunning a mob (to ensure sneak attack), while wearing Tharne's (for a consistent 8 sneak attack damage, without worrying about rogue damage dice).

Without damage boost, the sneak attack damage was 8:



With damage boost, the sneak attack damage was 10:



Of course this doesn't verify that this will affect a rogue's sneak attack dice, only the sneak attack damage from items, but it's likely from this that it affects sneak attacks in general.

It also works on ranged weapons, or at least, with shurikens (didn't test with bows or crossbows). I used shuriken because it's just a 1d2 so can see if damage change is due to damage boost, as opposed to weapon dice. Without damage boost, the damage was 24 or 25:



With damage boost, the damage was 30 or 31:



So it's multiplying your main hit -- i.e. with str modifiers, item bonuses, etc. -- not just the weapon's base damage. I also got a 62 damage on a crit (no seeker, not raged) so it looks like it affects your crits as well.

Also, for human versatility 2, the description is still the old one ("+3 Action Boost bonus to damage"), but the combat log does say 15% to damage, and it was giving 9 sneak attack damage from Tharne's, so it's the new percentage multiplier as well, at least for humans.

[Yalann]

Looks like it. Testing was done on my barbarian by stunning a mob (to ensure sneak attack), while wearing Tharne's (for a consistent 8 sneak attack damage, without worrying about rogue damage dice).

Without damage boost, the sneak attack damage was 8:

With damage boost, the sneak attack damage was 10:

Of course this doesn't verify that this will affect a rogue's sneak attack dice, only the sneak attack damage from items, but it's likely from this that it affects sneak attacks in general.

It also works on ranged weapons, or at least, with shurikens (didn't test with bows or crossbows). I used shuriken because it's just a 1d2 so can see if damage change is due to damage boost, as opposed to weapon dice. Without damage boost, the damage was 24 or 25:

With damage boost, the damage was 30 or 31:

So it's multiplying your main hit -- i.e. with str modifiers, item bonuses, etc. -- not just the weapon's base damage. I also got a 62 damage on a crit (no seeker, not raged) so it looks like it affects your crits as well.

Also, for human versatility 2, the description is still the old one ("+3 Action Boost bonus to damage"), but the combat log does say 15% to damage, and it was giving 9 sneak attack damage from Tharne's, so it's the new percentage multiplier as well, at least for humans.

Interesting to know it works for sneak attacks and ranged. When I was initially testing it, I only looked to see base + weapon damage (barb + human fvs) and it clearly affects weapon + base damage. As for the versatility, the description seems to be the part that is wrong. Even the buff icon was saying otherwise.