A Tale Of Two Pugs

[krackythehoodedone]

I ran two Epic WizKings last night.

Both with some Pugs.

First one was a great group. We smashed it as usual.

Even took along someone who was new to that particular Epic

And helped him through. Showed him all the danger spots

Explained the tactics etc.

Then came the second group.

Which i wasn't leading

After we got wasted the caster quit saying

''i am not ready for this yet'' . I believe the same applied to one or two others.

LFM clearly stated need to know quest.

WizKing/EDQ1/Chains are not easy Epics.

A group of just made 20th levels will get massacred

A group of really well geared and experienced toons will massacre the Adventure

You really do need to know the quests and your roles

And have specialised equipment/scrolls/spells/Dr breakers

This is not a rant aimed at any individual

But it takes a fair while to put together and run E Wiz

And if you come unprepared you will cost you fellow partymembers.

If your not sure if you are ready for these Quest's

At least have the courtesy to ask, before it's too late

[Anzanel]

Whilst getting wasted, I went to the Khyber forum

And saw a thread about pick-up groups

I clicked, out of boredom

Expecting tips for getting mad l00ts

But no. Another post about newbs in epic

With people not ready, dying miserably

But I am also a newb, and I mean not to nitpick

As a Wizard, I have this inquiry:

How high DCs does one need in epics,

In order to not get one's ass kicked?

[Namey]

Good lord people, let your Enter keys rest for a while. Put a longer paragraph in there every now and then.

[fartlord]

+1 to the op for bringing up a sensitive subject without comming across as a elitist.
And i also agree in the world of epics the degree of difficulty can be VERY dramatic.

Fact is you dont go to sands without spending some time in house p/k epics and shroud/tod/vod to get the right gear/exp first.

there should be a loading screen with the "have the right gear when going into epics" p.s.a.

[Namey]

there should be a loading screen with the "have the right gear when going into epics" p.s.a.

Honestly, I've always found the information on all things epic related a bit lacking. Both ingame and community-based. There's a ton of great class and build guides, guides how to complete quests, guides on raids, guides on basic and vital game mechanics, guides on obscure game mechanics, etc. But I have never seen a good, well organized guide on getting started with epics, and what the general build and equipment expectations are. Some better posts I've seen do cover some basic epic requirements, but usually they just list what awesome gear you should get in epic. And then there are scattershot "Am I ready for epics" threads, which can be anything between informative and useless.

I understand these vary vastly between classes and epic quests, and that only adds to the problem. I've reached the point where I think my bard is ready for some easier epics, but I honestly I'm not sure, because I have no reference level. I'm currently unguilded, so I can't ask any guildies about this. And I don't want to start hitting epic PUGs randomly, in the case that I'm not ready and screw up a quest for someone else.

[Anzanel]

Ok, I'm sober now (and not hungover, wooo!) so I can post without being fake-poetic, and without hitting enter every sentence.

I totally agree with Namey. Some info is out there, but one has to dig pretty hard to find it. So far the best source of Epic information I've found was the occasional "Am I ready" thread, as well as the Epic Education blog: http://my.ddo.com/pjstechie/

Honestly, I think there needs to be a stickied thread along the lines of "Everything You Need To Know About Epics" which would link to a bunch of other threads about specific topics related to epics.

[NeutronStar]

I think a pretty good way to think about Epics is this:

"If you think you're uber and have never done Epics, think again."

Now that's just a general way to look at it. Some Epics are much easier than others and can lead to a false sense of security.

When you actually hit the hard Epics, you'll know it and you'll know it pretty quickly in most cases. Don't be surprised to find out you're not ready for those if all you've been doing are the easy ones.

Tuberculozis, earlier you asked what your DCs should be for Epics. As a general rule, 40+ is what you're looking for. Try to get your DCs above 42 to be a really effective Crowd Controller (Hold Monster, Web, etc.). If you're a PM who uses Wail of the Banshee a lot, try to aim for DCs of 44+. Those can be difficult to get. They would be HIGHLY dependent on gear and you'll probably have to TR your Wizard at least twice.

[Enoach]

Outside of gear and personal skill there is one other component that is needed for Epic's.

Willingness to be a team player...

There are people out there that can solo different Epics and I applaud their abilities/luck at gear, but the best epic runs are those where everyone is working together to accomplish the goal.

[jandhaer]

. I've reached the point where I think my bard is ready for some easier epics, but I honestly I'm not sure, because I have no reference level. .

If you maxxed your perform and have a +15 perform item (a fascinate that saves the day will get you reinvited everytime), DIDNT dump CON (to many squishy bards out there, honestly anything under 400HP no matter the class is suspect and will often get you denied with pugs in epics), and know what to do with your songs AND know when to re-sing them (seen alot of bards sing 1 time then not again till next quest /facepalm) then your ready enough (see bare minimum) AS A BARD. Bards can do ALOT more but can often get away with singing ,throwing acouple buffs and keeping up with the group without dieing.

Hope that helps this one guy at least.

[Grace_ana]

So far the best source of Epic information I've found was the occasional "Am I ready" thread, as well as the Epic Education blog: http://my.ddo.com/pjstechie/

I have looked for info before but haven't seen this link, it's excellent, thanks for posting it! +1

[Anzanel]

Tuberculozis, earlier you asked what your DCs should be for Epics. As a general rule, 40+ is what you're looking for. Try to get your DCs above 42 to be a really effective Crowd Controller (Hold Monster, Web, etc.). If you're a PM who uses Wail of the Banshee a lot, try to aim for DCs of 44+. Those can be difficult to get. They would be HIGHLY dependent on gear and you'll probably have to TR your Wizard at least twice.

/sadface

I was planning on TR'ing 3 times eventually, but had no idea that it would have to be before Epics. My DCs are in the high 30s now, and will hopefully cross the 40 mark when I get a GS item with +3 exceptional Int. Hopefully it will be good enough for me to get into the easier epics a few times because all I want for now is ONE Epic Token...so I can get an Epic Robe of Shadows next time the Mabar event rolls around :P

Which ones are the easy epics, by the way? I heard that Bargain of Blood was one, as well as everything in Red Fens except the last quest in the chain. What about Carnival? And Sands, well...I'm positive that I have to stay far, far away from Sands *LOL*

[anto_capone]

Big top is an easy token

[MeliCat]

/sadface

I was planning on TR'ing 3 times eventually, but had no idea that it would have to be before Epics. My DCs are in the high 30s now, and will hopefully cross the 40 mark when I get a GS item with +3 exceptional Int. Hopefully it will be good enough for me to get into the easier epics a few times because all I want for now is ONE Epic Token...so I can get an Epic Robe of Shadows next time the Mabar event rolls around :P

Which ones are the easy epics, by the way? I heard that Bargain of Blood was one, as well as everything in Red Fens except the last quest in the chain. What about Carnival? And Sands, well...I'm positive that I have to stay far, far away from Sands *LOL*

Excep int on your TOD ring? Yugo pots? Do you want the epic diabolist robe from Chrono as that's a relatively easy to get +7 (therefore no Mabar and upgrade a DD Deaths touch for the +2 necro )

[Anzanel]

Excep int on your TOD ring? Yugo pots? Do you want the epic diabolist robe from Chrono as that's a relatively easy to get +7 (therefore no Mabar and upgrade a DD Deaths touch for the +2 necro )

ToD ring and Yugo favor are a work in progress :P I just don't feel like my spells land reliably enough to do much of the Amrath content right now. With ship buffs I can land things around 70% of the time, but if they happen hapen to run out, the word "save" and blue hexagons start to pop up all over the place. The +3 exc INT greensteel would make me a lot better in those quests until I do get the TOD ring and Yugo pots. I'm also hoping it will make me passable enough for an Epic Big Top (or other "easy" epics).

I was planning on getting the Epic Diabolist Robe as well, but didn't realize it was relatively easy to get. I still want a Robe of Shadows at some point though, just in case I get more uber gear later on and want to swap robes.

[Alternative]

You don't need DC to run epic wiz king. Just a stack of halt undead scrolls and wall of fire spell. There are a couple of gnolls at the entrance but it's nothing you can't get by with irresistable dance and power word stun/kill. Also I'm sure your holds will land just fine on non-caster gnolls.

The rest of the quest you just fight the undead, and rather than high DC you need a knowledge of the quest, where the traps might be and how to avoid them. Skeletons you can hold with halt undead scrolls, mummies and golems with web, then just burn them with firewalls. Wiz king is the easiest of the desert epics and many casters just solo it up to the end fight. So pretty much not a matter of DCs in this particular case, but rather some game knowledge/player skill.

But yea, I have seen some lfms requiring DCs for wiz king which was rather amusing, the same lfm expected non-monk melees to have an equivalent of mabar wraps which was just LoL. Lfms like that might confuse and discourage new but decent players from setting foot in epics, while bad players don't care/realise they are bad and will join regardless of what's asked.

[sweez]

I just don't feel like my spells land reliably enough to do much of the Amrath content right now.

Most people won't expect you to land DC stuff in Amrath on a first life toon, as long as you keep them hasted/displaced they'll be happy.