Nerf SP pots in the new harder content

[grodon9999]

Give them a 1 minute cooldownin hard, 3 minute in elite. This will force people to develop real strategies for handling the tougher content and not just brute-forcing our way through things.

[Sandheart]

If you drink more then 1 mana pot every 3 minutes or even 1 min something is very wrong and your group is doomed to fail anyways =P.

[Chai]

Its a good player suggestion, but a bad business suggestion, which is why I dont think they will do it. If people are actually guzzling their way to victory like some claim, Turbine is making money on that if their supply of mana potions includes store purchases.

[Truga]

If you drink more then 1 mana pot every 3 minutes or even 1 min something is very wrong and your group is doomed to fail anyways =P.

If you give me an infinite amount of sp pots, I can solo any content in the game most likely. And I'm not even that good or well geared.

[grodon9999]

Its a good player suggestion, but a bad business suggestion, which is why I dont think they will do it. If people are actually guzzling their way to victory like some claim, Turbine is making money on that if their supply of mana potions includes store purchases.

I just think if people want a real "challenge" they shouldn't have brute-force SP-pot usage as an option.

[Truga]

I just think if people want a real "challenge" they shouldn't have brute-force SP-pot usage as an option.

I really don't think SP pots are an issue in most situations though? I mean sure, there's some people who gulp them and run through everything, but I'm a miser like that. I won't drink a pot until it's absolutely sure I _need_ to cast a spell or we're not finishing the raid. And that said, I don't even remember anymore when was the last time that happened, and I mostly PuG. :P

[Aaxeyu]

Yes please, make it so.

[Elaril]

I just think if people want a real "challenge" they shouldn't have brute-force SP-pot usage as an option.

Then remove them from the game. It's annoying to have a cooldown timer on anything. I think the only time any of my characters have to drink pots is first runs through things.

That's what I'm saving them for; that is, in my opinion, the purpose these potions serve. After the first time through, I know where the shrines are and how many and where mobs are, so I don't need pots.

That being said, I can't remember the last time I chugged through pot after pot after pot, but that doesn't mean someone else, who has been saving their potions for the same thing, wouldn't have the need.

[voodoogroves]

Pots can be one mechanism of pay-to-win.

I'm a huge miser, but I'll chug them when I'm trying to figure something out. Funny enough, I rarely use them in a group. The need just isn't there as much (though PUG epic Chrono can get touchy ... I may not run it on a caster/healer if it becomes a de-facto requirement to drink pots to complete).

[voodoogroves]

Then remove them from the game. It's annoying to have a cooldown timer on anything. I think the only time any of my characters have to drink pots is first runs through things.

That's what I'm saving them for; that is, in my opinion, the purpose these potions serve. After the first time through, I know where the shrines are and how many and where mobs are, so I don't need pots.

That being said, I can't remember the last time I chugged through pot after pot after pot, but that doesn't mean someone else, who has been saving their potions for the same thing, wouldn't have the need.

Funny story, the most pots I drank in one session was when I was learning Ascension chamber ... and I drank the pots to get back to max SP before re-entering to do the puzzles again. We'd fail, recall out, I'd down some pots and we'd head back in. Didn't use any inside ...

[Jandric]

If you give me an infinite amount of sp pots, I can solo any content in the game most likely. And I'm not even that good or well geared.

You are, however, rich, and Turbine appreciates your DDO store purchases too much to do this.

[Truga]

You are, however, rich, and Turbine appreciates your DDO store purchases too much to do this.

Exactly.

[grodon9999]

I rarely drink them on my Cleric but occasionally stuff happens and I've power-healed a group that should have failed to victory because I drank my blue-bar back up. It's way too much of a "safety net" that can recover many disasters into victories.

if people wanting more "challenge" are applauding doubling boss HPs I'm curious to what their stance is on this.

[Chai]

I just think if people want a real "challenge" they shouldn't have brute-force SP-pot usage as an option.

I hear that, but what we find is that people will SAY they want a real challenge, right up to and until they get it, then they will complain its too hard.

Remember the first generation of epics, where rogues were complaining about having to gimp their toons just to be able to build for worthy trap skills. The end result of that is we now have epic quests where full ****** 20 starting str 6 int 8 wis half orc rogues can do all epic traps, simply by having the gear and maxed skill points to do so. Now we dont have to build anything.

Or how about the "Chronoscope is too hard for level 6 raid groups" threads. Many self proclaimed best of the best players were asking for the level on that raid to be raised. Meanwhile in other news, permadeathers who wont even allow themselves to buy consumables were completing it on hard at level.

Dont get me wrong, I do believe there are people out there who want a challenge, and will accept something like a cooldown for resource consumption. I do not believe they are as numerous as people claim however. Most people are satisfied in their comfort zones running content overlevel and overgeared, and then come plowing onto the forums complaining that someone messed up their speed run and they got 900 xp per minute rather than 1k xp per minute.

[Truga]

I rarely drink them on my Cleric but occasionally stuff happens and I've power-healed a group that should have failed to victory because I drank my blue-bar back up. It's way too much of a "safety net" that can recover many disasters into victories.

if people wanting more "challenge" are applauding doubling boss HPs I'm curious to what their stance is on this.

Challenge is solo solving the drow wraith puzzle in monastery without a solver as a rogue who can't kill anything in there (along with the rest of the quest ofc). I've done my first completion of the quest that way and it was fun.

More hp on enemies = dps + SP pool check. :P

What I'd like to see is enemy hp reduced and damage increased. The problem with that is, you need to reduce drop rates to compensate for people powering through quests faster once they figure them out.

[grodon9999]

I hear that, but what we find is that people will SAY they want a real challenge, right up to and until they get it, then they will complain its too hard.

I think people will drink their way to victory and then post about it in the Achievements forum.

Remember the first generation of epics, where rogues were complaining about having to gimp their toons just to be able to build for worthy trap skills. The end result of that is we now have epic quests where full ****** 20 starting str 6 int 8 wis half orc rogues can do all epic traps, simply by having the gear and maxed skill points to do so. Now we dont have to build anything.

It was fine until for got easy-to-get +20 Search and Spot stuff from Crystal cove. My Exploiter as able to get them with boosts before but it took around 5 item swaps including Exceptional INT and INT skills items. But nobody should have had to have gimped their toons to the point needed to get those epic traps from back in the day.

[vorpel]

I don't get why this is such an issue. So what if people want to use mana pots to blow through quests - it doesn't affect you (unless you are in their party, and if you go on more than 1 run with them it's your fault for continuing to group with them).

It's not like this is a race to get the quest done first and if you do you get something that other people don't get.

Personally I'm a hoarder, but I don't care how other people play.

Stop trying to dictate how others should play the game they are paying for...

[joaofalcao]

Give them a 1 minute cooldownin hard, 3 minute in elite. This will force people to develop real strategies for handling the tougher content and not just brute-forcing our way through things.

Its a wonderfull idea, but Chai preety much killed it.

To me, it seems that the reason turbine is turning the game into a brute force game rather than a strategy/defensive game is to sell more SP pots on the store.

I can see any other reason why to what they re doing to the game.

[grodon9999]

I don't get why this is such an issue. So what if people want to use mana pots to blow through quests - it doesn't affect you (unless you are in their party, and if you go on more than 1 run with them it's your fault for continuing to group with them).

It's not like this is a race to get the quest done first and if you do you get something that other people don't get.

Personally I'm a hoarder, but I don't care how other people play.

Stop trying to dictate how others should play the game they are paying for...

People whining about how easy the game has gotten has initiated the current changes. The game has gotten as easy as it has because of over-powered arcane and divine casters having effectively unlimited firepower.

How others play ABSOLUTELY affects you as the game changes to accommodate things.

[maddmatt70]

Yep at least a cooldown, but I wouldn't mind if they removed mana and silver flame pots altogether from the game.