Elite Raid Boss Testing

[xTethx]

Just tested Elite Vision of Destruction. Suulo now hits for 110-120 pts of dmg on elite. Hes actually quite a beast now. And his hp are pretty high too. Note: you can no longer exhaust him, not sure if this is global for all raid bosses, so no debuff for -3 to hit, dmg, AC, and reflex saves.

Epic Lailat: non war-mode hits were in the mid 50's base, in warmode: average was 65-70 but way faster attack speed. Hit points about double maybe triple usual.

Elite Tower part 1: Judge hits for about 100-110 has about triple the hp, Jailer hits for 100-130 and same as Judge for hp
Elite Tower part 2: Pit fiend damage anywhere from 80-110, hp more than double
Elite Tower part 3: Horoth dmg 130-160; hp more than double, Suulo for some reason seems unchanged

Elite Hound: she hits for about 110-130, hp unknown because you can no longer insta kill the mindflayers

Edit: will try to keep this thread updated with all other raid boss info

[sirgog]

Can you test the HP exactly?

Just respec out of all crit enhancements for DOTs (DP or Niac's and Eladar's) and remove any crit items, then blast the boss with 1 minute of DOTs (an amount of damage that isn't hard to calculate), and then count the number of pixels missing from their HP bar.

Everything in the game has 146 pixels on their HP bar (regardless of the resolution you are playing at), so we can then determine very good approximations of HP.

On Live, Suulo has 350k HP and eLailat around 93k.

[jakeelala]

Here's the issue with the way Turbine likes to:

-Make something
-Let all the vets/hardcore players exploit the heck out of it
-fix it, but still not make it too hard for hardcore players
-fix again, taking away the best stuff, nerfing loot, or making this old thing the hardcore people have already looted the heck out of WAY too hard or out of reach of newer players just trying to gear up and catch up.

This is SO BAD for the game.

Turbine, I love that you want to make raids more challenging, and I think your hardcore players are screaming for it.

But what you've done, once again, is COMPLETELY alienate the little guys, the new guys, your future bread and butter, from being able to complete this content.

All of these raids still failed reasonably frequently as pugs on Khyber every day. I was basically guildless for a while; I would know I was pugging everyday.

Epic Queen? Occasionally fails. Sometimes lag, sometimes party.

VOD? On norm almost always complete. Hard failed 50/50 in pugs. Elite was never even tried.

Hound? Even advanced guilds don't run this on Elite now. Hard barely ever either.

Shroud has no point for higher diffs, maybe you geniuses should have addressed that instead of making normal harder for Pete's sake.

Dragon? The dragon was never the hard part, it's the pillars and djinni's that fail the most, and that hasn't changed.

ToD: No pugs EVER complete on hard. Especially not with a Suulo kill. Pugs finish normal without Suulo regularly, and occasionally complete with Suulo kill. Again, for your bread and butter idiot masses, buffing these raid bosses is a HUGE mistake.

----

So. Is anyone in charge over there? You did this with crafting last month, now you're doing it to raids. How long before there is literally NOTHING left except for your top 20% of players who have largely gone FTP and spend very little on your game thanks to favor, saved TP, and fast grinding?

Why don't you just make at level quests require twinks and TR's to complete, and then you can COMPLETELY bury this game in the ground where you seem to think it belongs.

You want harder raids? Make a new difficulty level.

Or just change them on Elite and Epic.

Do not, please, for the love of everything holy, make normal raids where people get their gear, IMPOSSIBLE to finish as a pug. I'm not saying this for me, I'm in a Lvl 80 guild with a lot of BAMF's who can finish anything.

But I wasn't always. I feel for those new guys, or those part timers who haven't gotten to grind out all their gear on exploits and holes before you went and patched them.

Making things harder to keep old players interested: GREAT idea.

Doing so at the expense of the new guys and less uber who are probably 60-80% of your subscribers?

Colossally foolish. Also, totally unnecessary.

[xTethx]

Can you test the HP exactly?

Just respec out of all crit enhancements for DOTs (DP or Niac's and Eladar's) and remove any crit items, then blast the boss with 1 minute of DOTs (an amount of damage that isn't hard to calculate), and then count the number of pixels missing from their HP bar.

Everything in the game has 146 pixels on their HP bar (regardless of the resolution you are playing at), so we can then determine very good approximations of HP.

On Live, Suulo has 350k HP and eLailat around 93k.

I could but im lazy. You can tell in general they have more than double the hit points.

[xTethx]

After running all these raids on the Elite difficulty, I applaud Turbine. I dont see many people completing an elite tower without using resources. Fun.

[ayspam]

Good to hear , funzzzz.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Hmm...so. If they hit twice as hard as before...

Then we'll need people to have twice the HP we required them to have before to survive.

That's it then,

no one gets into my raids without 1,000 hp!

[sirgog]

lots of off topic stuff

Seriously, there's heaps of threads already discussing the merits or otherwise of this change.

Can't you just let one thread remain purely about the facts of it?

[LeLoric]

Hmm...so. If they hit twice as hard as before...

Then we'll need people to have twice the HP we required them to have before to survive.

That's it then,

no one gets into my raids without 1,000 hp!

Not necessarily, better groups will still be able to power through most of these as they do now.

Some may require some different tactics.

The best part of the change is it is a significant benefit for stalwart defenders and to a lesser extent dos. 30% reduction from shield mastery feats as well as fewer hits altogether means they roughly will be doing the same damage to them as we are used to seeing anyone tank currently.

This game has long gone without the lines between dps and tanking completely muddles it's nice to see that line drawn again a bit more clearly.

I do however disagree with the removal of pretty much any and all debuffs to raid bosses. You used to be able to debuff many raid bosses in this game but slowly and surely they had whittled it down to pretty much anything except waves of exhaustion which it appears may also be ineffective.

[jakeelala]

Seriously, there's heaps of threads already discussing the merits or otherwise of this change.

Can't you just let one thread remain purely about the facts of it?

How could it possibly be apropos to discuss the implications of these changes without having the actual factual differences to discuss? That's lunacy.

Knowing how much harder these things are now (which was before estimation and hearsay) puts the nail in the coffin: this the wrong way to go about making end game more of a challenge.

[sirgog]

I do however disagree with the removal of pretty much any and all debuffs to raid bosses. You used to be able to debuff many raid bosses in this game but slowly and surely they had whittled it down to pretty much anything except waves of exhaustion which it appears may also be ineffective.

Patching Lama now. Will test some other debuffs - Strength Sapping, Destruction, Improved Destruction, and anything else I can think of.

We should get a group of 12 together over there, and test some other raid bosses that are harder to solo to - epic Velah, epic Arach's Knight, Horoth, Nythirios, and some of the purple-nameds that aren't raid bosses, like the Tor dragons.

[Qzipoun]

You can't exhaust Sully on live either. Unlike other bosses, he is completely immune.

Increasing dmg per hit is not 'fun' though, just makes whoever is healing's job more tedious and boring :/

I think it's really dumb that to increase difficulty they are just increasing dmg and hp, makes long boring beatdowns even longer and more boring. *sigh*

[xTethx]

You can't exhaust Sully on live either. Unlike other bosses, he is completely immune.

Increasing dmg per hit is not 'fun' though, just makes whoever is healing's job more tedious and boring :/

I think it's really dumb that to increase difficulty they are just increasing dmg and hp, makes long boring beatdowns even longer and more boring. *sigh*

That is false. The only way I could solo him was to exhaust him to reduce his reflex save for blade barrier.

[Qzipoun]

That is false. The only way I could solo him was to exhaust him to reduce his reflex save for blade barrier.

*shrug* Ran it on elite just yesterday and got an immune message, strange

[IWBronzefury]

Lets try and keep on topic guys

[jakeelala]

Lets try and keep on topic guys

How exactly is a discussion of debuffing raid bosses off topic in a thread pertaining to the changes to raid bosses?

[Xiadais]

How could it possibly be apropos to discuss the implications of these changes without having the actual factual differences to discuss? That's lunacy.

Knowing how much harder these things are now (which was before estimation and hearsay) puts the nail in the coffin: this the wrong way to go about making end game more of a challenge.

Don't argue with sirgog.

[sirgog]

Going to try to get a Shroud Elite happening on the test server now to test Harry.

Edit - 10 min, no interest, giving up.

[noinfo]

That is false. The only way I could solo him was to exhaust him to reduce his reflex save for blade barrier.

Actually there has been an immune message come up on Sulu ever since they patched for raid bosses vs tendon slice/exhastion. Before that he was not immune but has come up with that message for ages.

[grodon9999]

After running all these raids on the Elite difficulty, I applaud Turbine. I dont see many people completing an elite tower without using resources. Fun.

Looking forward to it