Chimera's Crown hp DOESN'T stack

[waterboytkd]

So, testing out Chimera's Crown on Lama. My friend has the upgraded version. I have the old school epic version. When he put it on with 3 dmarks, the extra 20 hp it gives are from Greater Elemental Energy, not some generic source. That means, Chimera's Crown does NOT stack with GS hp items.

GENASI: Is this WAI?

SS to come when I figure that out...

Sidenote: My non-upgrade Crown is actually giving me the SR 30 and the Greater Elemental Energy, too. HOWEVER, it does not have Chimera's Vitality as an ability. Weird, huh?

Oh, yeah, and the Crown, whether it's upgraded or not, loses Greater Elemental Energy when it's removed (assuming because it's no longer checking for our Dmarks if we're not wearing it).

Here's the new version, unequipped:


New version, equipped:


Old version, unequipped:


Old version, equipped:


Oh yeah. Notice my lack of some Dmark uses in the pics? I hadn't used any dmarks. Taking the helm off and on repeatedly drained all my mark uses...

[Aranel12]

lol and my chimera fang isn't working correctly either (one i started)

[DoNotFeedTheRocks]

I'm pretty sure bonuses of the same value and same type never stack.

[waterboytkd]

I'm pretty sure bonuses of the same value and same type never stack.

Correct. HOWEVER, Genasi never said it was going to be Greater Elemental Energy from the Chimera's Crown. He said +10 hp from one mark, +15 from two, and +20 from three. Granted, he could have meant Elemental Energy with those values, but that'd be pretty rude to not SAY they were Elemental Energy when he was talking about these upgrades a bit ago, as people have started farming in anticipation of these coming changes.

Also, the description on Chimera's Vitality calls them stacking hp, not Elemental Energy:

[Genasi]

Sorry for the lack of clarity on this: using the Elemental Energy effects on this item was indeed intended. The description on the item should definitely be clearer about the source. Also, the item is granting the Dragonmark benefits even before being upgraded because that functionality is actually independent of the Chimera's Vitality label, which is there just to communicate how it works. It's a side effect of how these features have been implemented. The Dragonmark benefits being removed when you take the item off is also intentional.

As I mentioned in the thread about the Epic Chimera's Fang, these items that change depending on your character's attributes are a bit complicated in their implementation, so PM me if you find any other apparent bugs with how they're working.

[bradleyforrest]

Sorry for the lack of clarity on this: using the Elemental Energy effects on this item was indeed intended. The description on the item should definitely be clearer about the source. Also, the item is granting the Dragonmark benefits even before being upgraded because that functionality is actually independent of the Chimera's Vitality label, which is there just to communicate how it works. It's a side effect of how these features have been implemented. The Dragonmark benefits being removed when you take the item off is also intentional.

As I mentioned in the thread about the Epic Chimera's Fang, these items that change depending on your character's attributes are a bit complicated in their implementation, so PM me if you find any other apparent bugs with how they're working.

This doesn't affect me at all, but people's expectations were set that this bonus would stack with everything. To unveil it now with the bonus not stacking with GS items is disingenuous and should be changed to a stacking untyped bonus.

[waterboytkd]

Sorry for the lack of clarity on this: using the Elemental Energy effects on this item was indeed intended. The description on the item should definitely be clearer about the source.

Hmmm...

No, sir. I don't like it.

Almost every character I know of uses a GS hp item. Making this crown use the same mechanic is, well, worthless. Makes me want to nerd rage. Also, trying to keep my cool here, but it's not necessarily the description on the item that should have been clearer, but what you told us you were going to do that should have been clearer. Mostly because, originally, this was going to give +10 hp per dmark, for +30 total with all 3 dmarks. Was that supposed to be using the Elemental Energy system? Because it wouldn't work.

But let me end by saying that this change doesn't make this item any more desirable than it was pre-upgrade. Most characters make GS hp items. And Spell Resistance 30 means almost nothing at end game, especially epics. The only way I could see this item staying desirable using Elemental Energies is if it instead worked like a GS hp item:

1 dmark gets you Elemental Energy (+10 hp)
2 dmarks gets you Improved Elemental Energy as well (+15 more hp)
3 dmarks gets you Greater Elemental Energy on top of the previous benefits (+20 more hp)
= for a total of +45 hp, just like a GS item. At least that way, this helm could consolidate a slot or something. Still, it'd be an epic item that just replaces a GS item, and the GS item might actually still be better...

In the end, I feel the only way to actually make this helm desirable is to make the hp gains not Elemental Energy, but some kind of unique stacking bonus. Or revamp it altogether. As it is now, it's just as bad as it was pre-U11.

[Silverhilt-2]

Oh yeah. Notice my lack of some Dmark uses in the pics? I hadn't used any dmarks. Taking the helm off and on repeatedly drained all my mark uses...

The Dragonmark benefits being removed when you take the item off is also intentional.

I dont think you are talking about the same thing here... Of course he will loose the benefits of an item when he isnt wearing it The thing he is referring to (which by the way has been bug reported and posted on these forums about since the introduction of Braza's Hat!) is, that if you equip/unequip/equip etc. etc. it continues to remove charges of whatever it is giving extra charges of.

Edit: Just saw these Alchemist's Pendant, which also "gives extra uses" of various abilities, so expect more bug reports in that regard... Unless I ofc am the one reading your post wrong. You didnt say that that is WAI did you?

Ilmer

[arjiwan]

Oh yeah. Notice my lack of some Dmark uses in the pics? I hadn't used any dmarks. Taking the helm off and on repeatedly drained all my mark uses...

The Dragonmark benefits being removed when you take the item off is also intentional.

The thing he is referring to (which by the way has been bug reported and posted on these forums about since the introduction of Braza's Hat!) is, that if you equip/unequip/equip etc. etc. it continues to remove charges of whatever it is giving extra charges of.

Actually, I was responding to his comment here:

oh, yeah, and the Crown, whether it's upgraded or not, loses Greater Elemental Energy when it's removed (assuming because it's no longer checking for our Dmarks if we're not wearing it).

Hi Genasi,

So is the removing of the charges is not intentional?

Cheers.

[Skavenaps]

Yep thanks for the "fix" Genasi.

AC tanks (paladins and fighters) need more love on the HP side... everything counts.

[grodon9999]

If it only had natural Armor 6 and Blue Slot . . .

[Xyfiel]

If it only had natural Armor 6 and Blue Slot . . .

and each slot allowed you to put ioun stones in them!

[waterboytkd]

What's so bad about it not stacking with greensteel? It frees up a full inventory slot (from not having to wear GS anymore) while being a best in slot AC item, giving up a lot more possibilities if you have the right kind of build. I think it's a very nice item now.

But it doesn't free up the inventory slot. As it was now, with Greater Elemental Energy, you were only getting ONE tier of a gs hp item, not all 3. It in no way replaced a GS hp item, which would give 25 more hp than the Chimera's Crown. Also, the final Aspect benefits of a GS item are all as desirable, if not more desirable, than what the Crown is giving. IF this did GEE, it would be flat out worse than a GS item.

If it only had natural Armor 6 and Blue Slot . . .

and each slot allowed you to put ioun stones in them!

I do believe it's rude to look a gift horse in the mouth. Genasi is fixing this so it isn't worse than GS, so yay!

BUT, that said, Junk has a point. Break down the item, assuming you also have 3 dmarks. First, it's giving Nat Armor +5. That bonus itself, not so epic. Any end game ranger can give it to you for 15 sp. However, it is a hard bonus to actually find on items, so its rarity is the only thing really "epic" about it.

Second, the SR in the 25-30 range. I know from experience that that is just about useless in epics. I mean, even though he did increase the SR from 25 to 30 with dmarks, it still means that mobs are only gonna biff their SR check on a 1. This bonus is even eclipsed if you happen to have a Clr/FvS in your party with mass Spell Resistance (they give a 32...)

Last, due to dmarks, you gain 20 stacking hp (I'm assuming the change Genasi said), which is actually very cool, and 1 extra greater mark and 3 extra lesser mark uses. The latter is probably good, assuming you took dmarks because you wanted to use them, not just for this helm, or the Fang. Good, but not really epic good. More like level 18 good.

And we get two slots, a yellow and a colorless. Colorless slots for the second slot is always nice. Yellow slot is meh, because if you got any others, it tends to just turn into a colorless one, as the only really worthwhile yellow augment is GFL.

All that said, we really get a lot of meh to okay abilities, with one of them being pretty rare (+5 nat armor), and one of them being genuinely good (+20 stacking hp). If Genasi is okay with the item really only being desirable for an extra 20 hp and some AC (toons with 3 dmarks than can care about AC? very rare breed), then that's what we got. If he would like expand the item's desirable a little, then Junk's suggestion is a pretty good one. +6 Nat Armor is a truly epic bonus (only epic items give it). Also, a blue slot is a very useful slot. But, considering that this isn't a piece of armor using the game definition, perhaps a green slot would be more appropriate (replacing the yellow slot, leaving the colorless slot where it is). Nat Armor +6 and a Green slot would make this a quite a desirable item for any toon that cared about AC, and just that much saucier for a toon that cared about AC and had dmarks.

I did have some ideas for ways to also make the item more desirable using the dmark progression, but I realized that's not really helpful, as it just makes the item more desirable to those with dmarks. I do think making this item slightly more desirable to non-dmark toons is a smart move. I mean, Genasi, isn't that why Disintegrate got moved out of the final tier for Chimera's Fang and put into the "base" epic item? To make the item worth getting for some non-dmark toons?

[Defrag2k]

I am new to epic items, I have just completed my epic Chimera's Crown and GR'd to get the three dragonmarks. I have noticed that I gain +20 hp from Energy of the Chimera III, but I am not gaining the +45hp from the Chimera's Vitality. When I put on my GS +45hp, I gain +65hp total. I was to understand that I would get the +45 from GS as well as +45 from having all three dragonmarks and an extra +20 from Energy of Chimera III for a total of +110hp. I am only getting +65... is this correct or just a bug that needs to be worked on?

Also... I am not sure the incite on the epic Chimera's Fang is working correctly. Even after a successful Intimidate, while Paladin Divine Righteousness is active, melee steals aggro from me while tanking.

Any education you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Thelanis...Fawcks (18paladin/2fighter)

[wax_on_wax_off]

I am new to epic items, I have just completed my epic Chimera's Crown and GR'd to get the three dragonmarks. I have noticed that I gain +20 hp from Energy of the Chimera III, but I am not gaining the +45hp from the Chimera's Vitality. When I put on my GS +45hp, I gain +65hp total. I was to understand that I would get the +45 from GS as well as +45 from having all three dragonmarks and an extra +20 from Energy of Chimera III for a total of +110hp. I am only getting +65... is this correct or just a bug that needs to be worked on?

Also... I am not sure the incite on the epic Chimera's Fang is working correctly. Even after a successful Intimidate, while Paladin Divine Righteousness is active, melee steals aggro from me while tanking.

Any education you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Thelanis...Fawcks (18paladin/2fighter)

Would need a little more information. Are you attacking? What other gear do you have? What gear did the character who stole aggro have? Did you have a shield equipped?

[Defrag2k]

Would need a little more information. Are you attacking? What other gear do you have? What gear did the character who stole aggro have? Did you have a shield equipped?

Current gear: Tharnes Goggle, epic Chimeras Crown, Torc, Head of Good Fortune, Conc-Opp Cloak, DoS Belt, Band of Sibreys, Gloves of Titan's Grip, Cannith Boots, Ring of Lies, Fabricators Bracelers, epic House D Heavy Chain.
DPS: Epic Antique Greataxe
Tank: Epic Chimera's Fang(good dr slotted)/Levicks Defender/Light and Darkness

I am not sure what gear the other character had when he stole the aggro, but with a successful intim and all the incite/hate I generate, the only way I should have lost aggro is to a caster scoring awesome DoTs.

[Thrudh]

I am new to epic items, I have just completed my epic Chimera's Crown and GR'd to get the three dragonmarks. I have noticed that I gain +20 hp from Energy of the Chimera III, but I am not gaining the +45hp from the Chimera's Vitality. When I put on my GS +45hp, I gain +65hp total. I was to understand that I would get the +45 from GS as well as +45 from having all three dragonmarks and an extra +20 from Energy of Chimera III for a total of +110hp. I am only getting +65... is this correct or just a bug that needs to be worked on?

Also... I am not sure the incite on the epic Chimera's Fang is working correctly. Even after a successful Intimidate, while Paladin Divine Righteousness is active, melee steals aggro from me while tanking.

Any education you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Thelanis...Fawcks (18paladin/2fighter)

The crown only gives +20 (stacking) hps for 3 dragonmarks. That's it. That's all it gives.

+45 hps for GS = 65 with both... Working as Intended.

[Defrag2k]

The crown only gives +20 (stacking) hps for 3 dragonmarks. That's it. That's all it gives.

+45 hps for GS = 65 with both... Working as Intended.

Ok, I understand that but my confusion on the matter is that there are two separate lines on the item. One mentions the Energy of the Chimera III (+20 stacking hp) and the other mentions the Chimera's Vitality where it itemizes +10, +15, and +20 for the dragonmarks.

So that tells me that when I am not wearing my GS HP item, I should get +65hp from the crown by itself, this is not the case... I am only gaining +20. I do not have a problem with GS not stacking with the Vitality, I feel the item is bugged as I only receive the +20 by itself.

[Xeraphim]

...The Dragonmark benefits being removed when you take the item off is also intentional....

[Kinerd]

+1 for the Chrono Trigger sig, but you should always put what the bonus actually is. Never use "stacking". You're just asking for trouble. Even if it stacks with everything now, you never know when someone will come along down the road and c/p it over to some new item.