Bravery Bonus For All

[kernal42]

Bravery Bonus should not be a vip perk.

Fixed for you

[Jandric]

How many threads do we need for this?

[Qindark]

How many threads do we need for this?

apparently one for each person's idea.

[IamSooty]

This is actually getting pretty fun to watch. Who doesn't know that gaming forums are the best places for debate?

[LoveNeverFails]

Just my two cents, but this entire thing is insane. I've been premium, and VIP. Therefore, I can see both sides of the argument. What really makes me giggle is that some of the premium players that are up in arms right now are the same players who admittedly stated that VIPs deserve some for or fashion of a perk. Now VIPs get one, accidental or not, and the forums explode with people who are just crazy indignant because they feel that they aren't getting what the deserve.

VIPs give Turbine a monthly income. Period. End of story, the end. I don't care how many hundreds of dollars you drop a month in this game, Every month at a specific date, Turbine goes into my bank account and takes money out. Do they do that with your premium account?

Premium may decide this month to drop 50$ on a point package. Then next month, or for the next 2 months, they spend no money on the game. Fantastic. That is your decision. But please for the love of Pete, do not try to take MY goodies away from me because you feel entitled because you spent more on the game last month then i've spent in the two months.

I don't know how Turbine's money management is set up, but i hope that they value their VIP players more, since the VIP players are the ones making sure that every month there is a certain amount of money rolling in.

VIP also does not equal individuals that do not buy points. most VIPs out there will tell you that they also spend money on points. Unfortunately, no one has Turbine's financial statements to tell really how much each payment tier pays. (except of course pure F2Pers)

That is my feelings about this so called "argument".

A hard or elite unlock in the store imo would be a dumb move, it would really take away whatever perk VIP DOES have over premium, and everyone will drop their subs once they have enough TP for it. That would be a dumb move on Turbine's part.

If Turbine can implement a way to "reward" premiums who spend a crazy amount of money on the game, fantastic, more power to them. Until then, I'd like my unlocks please. And will gladly unlock for anyone that asks.

OP, you can start these threads until the end of time, and this conversation will continue because people disagree on the topic. Get over yourself. Your ideas aren't the end all be all solution, and not everyone agrees with you.

[muny21]

Bit of an ego on you huh? What makes YOUR suggestion the be-all end-all solution for this alleged problem? So much so that you can't be bothered to put it in a thread that you didn't start?

Sounds to me like you have sour grapes syndrome because you bought content/races/classes permanently rather than renting it like a VIP does.

For the record, I'm a VIP and I love it. For all the reasons you listed: Access to all content, access to all races, access to all classes, elite unlock, 500 TP to buy XP pots with and 10 character slots. I LOVE it. That's why I'm VIP.

You are way out of line. I never said I was superior. I never said no one can post. All I ASKED was people to not bring in the same arguement that was in other threads to this one. If you feel like my suggestion is no good say so. No need to bring in the same drama from the other threads.

Lastly, no I do not have sour grapes. I love it that I own all the packs and the races and classes I wanted to purchase. I do not care much for paying $10 a month to play a game because it feels wrong to me. Just like any other game I play it is purchased and mine to enjoy without spending more money.

Do I feel like I should get every thing a VIP gets... no. I am not asking for 10 character slots, early access, free shared banks, and all races and classes. But at the same time where are the perks for being premium and sinking in hundreds of dollars into the game.

Why do VIPs feel like they are the only ones that deserve elite unlock? What makes you so special? Why can't a premium that can purchase everything in the game not be offered same perk after spending so much?

Seems fair to me. But VIPs never could understand how fairness works and turbine should of never used that wording for subscribers. Now most feel like they are royalty in the game and the rest are pee-ons and should be grateful that one of them would be so kind to open elite for us to get bonus.

[IamSooty]

Just my two cents, but this entire thing is insane. I've been premium, and VIP. Therefore, I can see both sides of the argument. What really makes me giggle is that some of the premium players that are up in arms right now are the same players who admittedly stated that VIPs deserve some for or fashion of a perk. Now VIPs get one, accidental or not, and the forums explode with people who are just crazy indignant because they feel that they aren't getting what the deserve.

Since you've been both, maybe I could start a conversation with you. How much do people really believe that VIPs deserve more perks? What about you, do you think that they deserve more perks than the ones they currently do possess now?

[Mercules]

First I am not asking people to not post to disagree. I am asking that people not bring in this thread the same circular logic that plaques the other threads.

Well, your first post started the circular logic... so by now that ship has sailed.

Your circular logic is, "I deserve something because I feel I deserve it." Yes Bravery Bonus was not "meant" to be a VIP perk but at the same time MadFloyd stated Premium would not be getting an Elite unlock. Why? Because Elite unlock is a VIP perk. One of the few reasons to be VIP as I can purchase everything but Elite unlock and earlier access to new content as a premium.

[Darkrok]

I know it is not a reason to scrap it, that is why I said "I am starting to hope". I just get annoyed at all of the over-blown comments from both sides of the argument. Both sides have good and valid points, and both sides have people that consistantly avoid admitting that the other side has something to offer. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, just commenting on what I have been reading.

That's true. You've hit on the problem. There are some people on the VIP side arguing the 'from my cold, dead fingers' side of the elite perk. Then there's people arguing the 'VIP's can never have something I can't have ever ever ever' argument. There's quite a bit of that going around right now.

I've been persuaded by some valid arguments to agree that despite the fact that VIP's get very little in the way of perks beyond the access that can be bought for a one-time fee their one perk should be available to people that earn it in-game via one of those two methods I mentioned. It can also be bought on a time-by-time basis already. But paying once and having something that VIP's also have to pay for on a monthly basis? No...that's a step too far.

Now, as for how that relates to the xp bonus, I'm stating my opinions about it. My logic is not circular because I don't agree with the dev's that it has to be a bonus that's accessible to everyone without any outside assistance. If the dev's want the bonus to be accessible to everyone without any outside assistance (a goal that I don't feel is worthwhile but then I'm not a dev ) then I really only see two choices that won't be a net loss for them...

1) Rework the way the bonus works so that it IS available to everyone. My suggestion to this would be to base it off of the effective quest level rather than the difficulty. This would also address people's complaints that a level 19 running a level 1 quest elite to build up a 'bravery bonus' is a bit bogus. Make it so to receive the bravery bonus you must run a normal quest at 3 levels under the quest level, a hard at 1 level under the quest level, or an elite at 1 level over the quest level. This would mean a level 4 running a level 7 quest on normal would qualify. A level 4 running a level 4 quest on hard (effective quest level of 5) would qualify. And that same level 4 running a level 1 quest on elite (effective quest level of 3) would qualify. I structured it this way because anyone that's run solo/short-man'd can tell you that due to the way dungeon scaling works a level 3 quest on normal != a level 1 quest on elite difficulty-wise. To qualify as 'brave' I would want it to grant full xp on elite (level 4 running level 1 elite for example), be over-level on hard (running a quest at your level but on hard), and be significantly over-level on normal (3 levels seem sufficient...a level 4 running Gwylan's normal, while possible, is certainly 'brave').

2) Give Elite opening to everyone automatically and find another suitable perk for VIP's. I'd vote for a permanent xp bonus of 10% that stacks with store pots for example. VIP's need something that can't be bought in the stores or else the pricing structure doesn't make sense.

[Mercules]

Why do VIPs feel like they are the only ones that deserve elite unlock? What makes you so special? Why can't a premium that can purchase everything in the game not be offered same perk after spending so much?

Because it is JUST as likely that we spend just as much if not more than Premium, and we offer steady income on top of our burst income from purchasing TP points. I'm raising my hand because I've bought $50 worth of Turbine points in the last two months. Who else has?

[LoveNeverFails]

Since you've been both, maybe I could start a conversation with you. How much do people really believe that VIPs deserve more perks? What about you, do you think that they deserve more perks than the ones they currently do possess now?

I believe what i see from others on the forums. Every time a VIP Vs Premium topic pops up, there are of course the few people who disagree, but there are a lot that say there aren't enough perks to VIP. Personally, to be 100% honest, i think the game as is is fine. The hard/elite unlocks for VIPs. I'm not at all against giving those premium players who spend a lot of money on the game extra perks. Really I'm not. I admire and respect the people who love the game enough and can afford to drop a couple of hundred dollars every once in a while on the game, and hope that Turbine can put together another payment tier for them.

Until that happens though, the Premium players who spend loads of money on the game are going to be upset and bitter that those of us VIPs who only spend 10$ a month on the game (because that is what many of them assume, since VIPs aren't allowed to buy point packages as well) get everything that they have and a little bit more.

I think it is the bitterness that kills me.

Longs story short, I am content with VIP perks as they stand. I do not think that Premiums should be given an option to buy Hard or elite account wide quest unlocks, as the tiers stand right now. Perhaps Turbine should think of another payment tier specifically for those people who have "bought" the game.

However, I do think that VIPs should keep their elite unlock status, In my mind it isn't about who pays more, its about a steady stream of revenue, which every business needs to survive. VIPs give Turbine that steady guaranteed revenue.

[LoveNeverFails]

Because it is JUST as likely that we spend just as much if not more than Premium, and we offer steady income on top of our burst income from purchasing TP points. I'm raising my hand because I've bought $50 worth of Turbine points in the last two months. Who else has?

/raises two hands for her account and her husband's.

[Jandric]

2) Give Elite opening to everyone automatically and find another suitable perk for VIP's. I'd vote for a permanent xp bonus of 10% that stacks with store pots for example. VIP's need something that can't be bought in the stores or else the pricing structure doesn't make sense.

If you thought *this* update generated a lot of +5 Outrageously Outrageous Heavy Pick of Nits (Festival Kit of Outrageousness added), try watching that update go live.

[Mercules]

/raises two hands for her account and her husband's.

VIP or Premium?

[muny21]

Because it is JUST as likely that we spend just as much if not more than Premium, and we offer steady income on top of our burst income from purchasing TP points. I'm raising my hand because I've bought $50 worth of Turbine points in the last two months. Who else has?

Who is to say that your steady $10 a month for lets say two years which adds up to $240 is more than a one time lump sum of over $300 if you catch no sales. I tell you one thing any business would much rather take a huge lump sum over a not guaranteed monthly subscription that would take years to match. I would love to see one business refuse that.

Well like my first post stated, but I guess I got ahead of myslef and assumed people actually read before forming an opinion, there are extremes to both VIP and Premium. You have VIPs like yourself that pay for subs and also spend extra in store and you have VIPs that just pay sub only.

Then you have premiums that purchased all content and also drop money every month on xp pots, cakes, or whatever and there are premiums that only bought one five dollar point pack.

While my suggestion is not an end all be all as some are trying to make it seemed like I meant it to be, I do fell it is a very good compromise between all.

My challenge to all you VIPs is to give me a good reason how it affects your subs and your perks if someone that put in the same amount of money into the game in the form of one lump sum is afforded ONE of the perks you currently have?

I highly doubt people that are only spending $10 a month will suddenly drop their sub and pay well over $200 in one lump sum to gain the ability to have elite unlock. Not going to happen.

[mournbladereigns]

Well, hey, I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage


Alice's D20 by halfridur, on Flickr

[rest]

You are way out of line. I never said I was superior. I never said no one can post. All I ASKED was people to not bring in the same arguement that was in other threads to this one. If you feel like my suggestion is no good say so. No need to bring in the same drama from the other threads.

Lastly, no I do not have sour grapes. I love it that I own all the packs and the races and classes I wanted to purchase. I do not care much for paying $10 a month to play a game because it feels wrong to me. Just like any other game I play it is purchased and mine to enjoy without spending more money.

Do I feel like I should get every thing a VIP gets... no. I am not asking for 10 character slots, early access, free shared banks, and all races and classes. But at the same time where are the perks for being premium and sinking in hundreds of dollars into the game.

Why do VIPs feel like they are the only ones that deserve elite unlock? What makes you so special? Why can't a premium that can purchase everything in the game not be offered same perk after spending so much?

Seems fair to me. But VIPs never could understand how fairness works and turbine should of never used that wording for subscribers. Now most feel like they are royalty in the game and the rest are pee-ons and should be grateful that one of them would be so kind to open elite for us to get bonus.

You edited your post, but I know there was something about "wanting to start your own thread so your great idea didn't get buried 20 pages deep". Thus you felt your idea was SO SUPERIOR that it deserved its own thread. I feel your suggestion is no good. Feel better?

You chose the payment method that you think works the best for you. Awesome. Good For You.

Where are the perks? Well you own that content. It can never be taken away. You can decide to not spend a single additional red cent ever again, and you'll still be able to use all the stuff you currently have. For as long as the game is still up and running. If I stop paying my VIP subscription I'm down to 4 character slots, no premium races or classes and just the f2p content that anyone gets for free.

That is a VIP perk that Turbine decided to give. That's why they "deserve it". What makes a premium player such as yourself feel you "deserve" elite unlock? What dollar amount threshold qualifies you to get that perk? $100? $200? $500? $1,000?

You can get elite unlock as a premium. They sell it in the store. You (probably) have friends who have VIP subscriptions. There is the LFM panel that you can use to ask for an elite opener. I've done elite opening stuff for people dozens of times. If I am not doing anything and I see an LFM up asking for an elite unlock, I'll join party, open it up and be on my merry way.

Seems to me that this "us vs them" thing is something that looms very large in your mind, but really isn't that big of a deal to me. Plenty of people in my guild are premium. Several of my very best friends in game are premium. They're still my friends and guildies. I never even think about them not being VIP when we're playing together. The only time it comes up is when I suggest a pack they don't have. And then you know what I do? I buy em a guest pass. Having friends is amazing.


If you want VIP benefits, become a VIP. Or don't. But to cry out "IT'S SO NOT FAIR!!" is just silly.

[IamSooty]

I believe what i see from others on the forums. Every time a VIP Vs Premium topic pops up, there are of course the few people who disagree, but there are a lot that say there aren't enough perks to VIP. Personally, to be 100% honest, i think the game as is is fine. The hard/elite unlocks for VIPs. I'm not at all against giving those premium players who spend a lot of money on the game extra perks. Really I'm not. I admire and respect the people who love the game enough and can afford to drop a couple of hundred dollars every once in a while on the game, and hope that Turbine can put together another payment tier for them.

Until that happens though, the Premium players who spend loads of money on the game are going to be upset and bitter that those of us VIPs who only spend 10$ a month on the game (because that is what many of them assume, since VIPs aren't allowed to buy point packages as well) get everything that they have and a little bit more.

I think it is the bitterness that kills me.

Longs story short, I am content with VIP perks as they stand. I do not think that Premiums should be given an option to buy Hard or elite account wide quest unlocks, as the tiers stand right now. Perhaps Turbine should think of another payment tier specifically for those people who have "bought" the game.

However, I do think that VIPs should keep their elite unlock status, In my mind it isn't about who pays more, its about a steady stream of revenue, which every business needs to survive. VIPs give Turbine that steady guaranteed revenue.

Hmm, I'm actually a little confused by your assertion that VIPs give Turbine steady guaranteed revenue. I'm not well informed enough on MMO business models, so pardon my layman understanding. But isn't it correct to say that subscribers can, at any time, choose to cancel or not renew their subscription when it ends? Isn't it more accurate to say that they are just paying for the game in installments (if they keep playing the game forever) or renting the game (if they eventually stop playing the game after a short while)?

[protokon]

Technically it is available for everyone. there's nothing stopping you from finding someone who can open elite if you don't have VIP yourself.

there's very, very few reasons to stay VIP, taking away one of the very few perks of being VIP will do nothing but kill the entire point of paying a sub.

[LoveNeverFails]

VIP or Premium?

Mine stays VIP, His is currently VIP, but will fluctuate depending on how much he plays.