Bravery Bonus For All

[catscan420]

Go ahead cancel your sub and purchase all of that like a lot of premiums have done and then tell me how you fell about spending hundreds of dollars on a game only to have someone that puts $10 a month get more benefits than you. I guarantee you would not like it either.

Yes, but isn't this the choice you made by not going VIP, when you've always known that there are certain benefits that VIPs do get? You made a conscience choice to choose one over the other, for your own reasons.

Free unlock on hard and elite to someone who owns all the packs I can agree with though, so it doesn't benefit the true F2P favor farmers. Turbine does need to make some money, they are a business.

[muny21]

They really don't get much, beyond the obvious (paid access to content, that is). I'm not sure what you see to be "quite a lot of goodies" - most are pretty irrelevant (like queue order? Is that even perceptible?).

-Kernal

Access to high level content including epics to really gear your toon out is not much? the ability to TR. No f2p can TR without purchasing packs. Having complete access to the entire game is a huge perk in itself even though it is taking for granted and not highly acclaimed as the coveted elite unlock. Not to mention all classes and races, except the two favor ones. Shared banks, character slots. Again taking for granted. But all VIPs see is the elite is their only perk. Very untrue.

[Mercules]

Access to high level content including epics to really gear your toon out is not much? the ability to TR. No f2p can TR without purchasing packs. Having complete access to the entire game is a huge perk in itself even though it is taking for granted and not highly acclaimed as the coveted elite unlock. Not to mention all classes and races, except the two favor ones. Shared banks, character slots. Again taking for granted. But all VIPs see is the elite is their only perk. Very untrue.

For the cost of 2 years subscription you can have ALL the "perks" VIP gets, except early access to new content and Elite open.

So if you can get that too what is the point of subscribing for 3 years?

[muny21]

Free unlock on hard and elite to someone who owns all the packs I can agree with though, so it doesn't benefit the true F2P favor farmers. Turbine does need to make some money, they are a business.

And all i was asking is this. That was the original suggestion and I do not want all perks. but this perk makes complete sense and any rational person can agree to it. It is not a cheap option by any means.

[kernal42]

A level 6 character with House P buffs might dispute that claim.

My characters almost always have House P favor by level 6, and almost never bother to get it.

Many of them are used for crafting now.

Yep. Not so many that a large (or even medium?) bag is too small for them, fortunately. A Huge is only needed if you want to keep the useless ones too.

Those are everyone perks, not VIP perks. Do Half-Orcs offer more power? I don't have to buy that as a VIP, it's included in my package. How about WF? Monks?

The couple things VIP ws given that could not be bought were conveniences and I am sorry, but XP is EASY to come by in this game. Leveling is easy. As you said it is a 10% bonus at most.

Purchased races and classes do offer more power. XP pots offer more power. In some sense, adventure packs offer more power (by way of having better gear than the free areas). These are all ways in which Turbine is dancing along the "Pay to Win" line; fortunately they shy away from the really important things like rare loot.

XP is easy to come by, but levelling faster is a type of power. If you take two months to TR (slow, but probably around average. I certainly take a lot longer), then +10% exp means you save 7 days. That puts you 2+ raid completions closer to get that loot you want! That is power!

Both of us spending the same amount of time in-game, your character ends up stronger than mine purely by virtue of you being VIP and me being Premium, even though I buy everything I can (packs, races, xp pots, whatever) to match your progress. That is bad design.

-Kernal

[Mercules]

And all i was asking is this. That was the original suggestion and I do not want all perks. but this perk makes complete sense and any rational person can agree to it. It is not a cheap option by any means.

$46 dollars more than a "discount" yearly subscription.

[kernal42]

For the cost of 2 years subscription you can have ALL the "perks" VIP gets, except early access to new content and Elite open.

So if you can get that too what is the point of subscribing for 3 years?

While your point is valid, I must play the Devil's Advocate here:

In 3 years of subscription, you'll also get 18000 Turbine Points to spend on consumables like XP pots or whatever else you want. To match that, the Premium player would have to spend about $120; conveniently enough to match the cost of your third year of subscription!

In the fourth year, Premium does pull ahead in value. On the other hand, VIP is ahead for the first few years, assuming you want all content and intend to buy it.

-Kernal

[kernal42]

And all i was asking is this. That was the original suggestion and I do not want all perks. but this perk makes complete sense and any rational person can agree to it. It is not a cheap option by any means.

That's a clever way of sneaking in an insult to everyone who disagrees with you.

It appears that all of the DDO forums are irrational, then, because nobody likes your idea.

But then, who's surprised?

-Kernal

[Mercules]

Both of us spending the same amount of time in-game, your character ends up stronger than mine purely by virtue of you being VIP and me being Premium, even though I buy everything I can (packs, races, xp pots, whatever) to match your progress. That is bad design.

-Kernal

You meant the virtue of me being VIP, aka their highest account option? I don't see that as bad design. They have given incentive to go with the more expensive option. Incentive you can't get without specifically choosing that option.

[kernal42]

Access to high level content including epics to really gear your toon out is not much? the ability to TR. No f2p can TR without purchasing packs. Having complete access to the entire game is a huge perk in itself even though it is taking for granted and not highly acclaimed as the coveted elite unlock. Not to mention all classes and races, except the two favor ones. Shared banks, character slots. Again taking for granted. But all VIPs see is the elite is their only perk. Very untrue.

Now it's my turn to call you *[SILLY]*!

Note in my quote where I wrote, "Besides the obvious (paid access to content)." This one sentence encompasses everything you describe. VIP pays for content; Premium pays for content differently.

VIP should get a perk on top of that because otherwise there's no incentive to go VIP for anyone interested in playing for an extended period of time. On the other hand, Turbine prefers the regular payments of VIP subscribers to the irregular payments of Premium players (in the case where the two are identically in magnitude), so they should incentivize the VIP subscription. Currently, the only significant incentive is the elite-unlock.

-Kernal

[muny21]

That's a clever way of sneaking in an insult to everyone who disagrees with you.

It appears that all of the DDO forums are irrational, then, because nobody likes your idea.

But then, who's surprised?

-Kernal

NO! NO! NO! Not what I meant for a minute. Funny thing is I was just reading your other post and thinking this guy is making a lot of sense. Finally someone thinking about the problem instead of having the "it belongs to me attitude."

It stands to reason that if you own all of something why not be afforded all amenities and perks that are available. What is not rational or logical is believing that you deserve it more than someone else which is the view shared by most VIPs.

[Mercules]

In the fourth year, Premium does pull ahead in value. On the other hand, VIP is ahead for the first few years, assuming you want all content and intend to buy it.

-Kernal

Which is almost never the case. Premium players, in general, tend to pick and choose the best XP/Loot content and purchase that. I'm stuck paying for quests I never run, they are not.

[kernal42]

You meant the virtue of me being VIP, aka their highest account option? I don't see that as bad design. They have given incentive to go with the more expensive option. Incentive you can't get without specifically choosing that option.

Wait, you're seriously arguing that, because you're VIP, you should have stronger characters than I do?

....no wonder we can't see eye to eye.

-Kernal

[Sleepsalot]

I pay for VIP to get those perks. And trust me I know exactly what I get that others that Choose not to pay get.. if we want FvS or Drow before we get the Favor We Pay. We get 20 more Bank spots as Shared bank.. Any thing else for Bank we pay for. Yes we get 6 more player spots for VIP.

Sorry I don't care how many packs some one owns..

Just for some one to Say They should get to open Hard and Elite because They paid for Packs. Is about nuts. (Not intended as a Insult.)

The whole Bravery concept needs to be put where it belongs and Not in the game..

All it is for are Those that choose to TR why should they be any better then some one that chooses not to be a TR??

Unless Turbine is going to do a Reset on every Players Quest list then this Bravery Junk has no Place in the Game.

Again End of Rant

Sleeps

I know you were not ranting to me, at least you stated so, but I was not asking to be on same ground as VIP.

Why do VIPs only think they get elite unlock as a perk?

You get much much more than that.

To be able to unlock all quests on all difficulties sort of like the completionist feat but for the packs does not amount to being VIP in no stretch. If VIPs think they only get elite unlock here is a reminder for you:

http://www.ddo.com/vip

That is quite a lot of goodies if you ask me.

I do not know. Maybe I am the only that sees it this way but if you unlock all quests through purchase via VIP or Premium why not be able to open them on any difficulty? It will not kill VIP subs because they are not going to want to buy every single pack just to keep elite unlock. Then have to buy all their shared banks, character slots, races, classes and such. If they did they would not be VIP.

[Gleep_Wurp]

/not signed

vips should get this perk and no one else

[blkcat1028]

Sell an item in the DDO store that has x amount of charges. Expend a charge for a 6 hour buff that will allow open on hard. Sell another item that will give a buff to open on elite.

Problem solved. All players have reasonable access to open on higher difficulties and Turbine makes money. Win-Win.

Or as presented in another thread... tie it to total favour.

[kernal42]

Which is almost never the case. Premium players, in general, tend to pick and choose the best XP/Loot content and purchase that. I'm stuck paying for quests I never run, they are not.

That's correct - I know I pick only packs that I want something from, be it loot, exp, or something else.
That said, I have all packs but 2-3, and all races and classes.
Also, the comparison falls short because it doesn't include packs that will come out in the next 2 years. Probably it's pretty accurate, really.

The place it may fall short is that most Premium players probably don't spend 6000 TP in consumables each year. I know I don't.

-Kernal

[muny21]

Now it's my turn to call you *[SILLY]*!

Note in my quote where I wrote, "Besides the obvious (paid access to content)." This one sentence encompasses everything you describe. VIP pays for content; Premium pays for content differently.

VIP should get a perk on top of that because otherwise there's no incentive to go VIP for anyone interested in playing for an extended period of time. On the other hand, Turbine prefers the regular payments of VIP subscribers to the irregular payments of Premium players (in the case where the two are identically in magnitude), so they should incentivize the VIP subscription. Currently, the only significant incentive is the elite-unlock.

-Kernal

Well now it is my turn to call you *[SILLY]* because you still fail to read and comprehend the benefits of a VIP. It includes, but not limited to, the elite unlock, all access to all content, the ability to TR, all races and classes besides the obvious, shared banks, 10 character slots, early access, 60 minute log que, and 40 items buy back. So how is the only perk a VIP gets the elite unlock???

So how is that the only incentive? Would people be VIP if all they got was elite unlock and no packs and no classes and no bank and no character slots???? Highly doubt it.

[kernal42]

Well now it is my turn to call you illiterate because you still fail to read and comprehend the benefits of a VIP. It includes, but not limited to, the elite unlock, all access to all content, the ability to TR, all races and classes besides the obvious, shared banks, 10 character slots, early access, 60 minute log que, and 40 items buy back. So how is the only perk a VIP gets the elite unlock???

So how is that the only incentive? Would people be VIP if all they got was elite unlock and no packs and no classes and no bank and no character slots???? Highly doubt it.

I'm not sure why you insist on deliberately misreading what I write.

[muny21]

I'm not sure why you insist on deliberately misreading what I write.

You misread what I wrote saying I was insulting people when I never did such a thing. Not so funny when tables are turned is it?