Bravery Bonus For All

[Uska]

Because it is JUST as likely that we spend just as much if not more than Premium, and we offer steady income on top of our burst income from purchasing TP points. I'm raising my hand because I've bought $50 worth of Turbine points in the last two months. Who else has?

At least and over 700.00 so far on my sub

[kernal42]

If I dropped my sub, it would be because I wasn't going to play anymore, not because I threw a hissy fit and was mad at Turbine for XYZ reason.

Can't it be both?

[smatt]

VIPs SHOULD get more benefits than they currently do........ This SHOULD be a VIP benfit, if a premium player wants it buy the unlock, you as a Premium player chose the way you wanted to pay for the game and chose to have the choice to only pay for the parts of the game you want.

[Uska]

Who is to say that your steady $10 a month for lets say two years which adds up to $240 is more than a one time lump sum of over $300 if you catch no sales. I tell you one thing any business would much rather take a huge lump sum over a not guaranteed monthly subscription that would take years to match. I would love to see one business refuse that.

Well like my first post stated, but I guess I got ahead of myslef and assumed people actually read before forming an opinion, there are extremes to both VIP and Premium. You have VIPs like yourself that pay for subs and also spend extra in store and you have VIPs that just pay sub only.

Then you have premiums that purchased all content and also drop money every month on xp pots, cakes, or whatever and there are premiums that only bought one five dollar point pack.

While my suggestion is not an end all be all as some are trying to make it seemed like I meant it to be, I do fell it is a very good compromise between all.

My challenge to all you VIPs is to give me a good reason how it affects your subs and your perks if someone that put in the same amount of money into the game in the form of one lump sum is afforded ONE of the perks you currently have?

I highly doubt people that are only spending $10 a month will suddenly drop their sub and pay well over $200 in one lump sum to gain the ability to have elite unlock. Not going to happen.

I doubt you have even spent half as much as I have and its not really about the dollar amount I commit to supportting the game 6 months at a time and I just reupped so I do long term support.

[kernal42]

VIPs SHOULD get more benefits than they currently do........ This SHOULD be a VIP benfit, if a premium player wants it buy the unlock, you as a Premium player chose the way you wanted to pay for the game and chose to have the choice to only pay for the parts of the game you want.

Honestly, if the elite unlock were a permanent, account-wide bonus allowing you to forever more unlock that one quest on elite, I would totally do it for a few quests.

Unless the cost of it goes down dramatically (to a few tens of TP), it's still not practical to take advantage of the bravery bonus. Remember; you're not talking a single elite unlock, you're talking about 5-10 or more. If I wanted to use the Bravery system on a new TR, it would be cheaper for me to go VIP than pay for individual unlocks.

The elite unlocks were a good answer (if overpriced) to the VIP elite-open perk, but they are not an answer to the new Bravery mechanic.

-Kernal

[Mercules]

You are telling a business would rather have $10 a month for one year for a total of $120 over another customer spending $200- $300 in the same year to "own" their product?

People are just silly. That is bad business 101.

I did not include extra purchases because to be honest there is no way to tell. But the bare minimums speak for themselves and is a reason that turbine introduced the premium account.

No, but I think you are missing the point it isn't $10 a month for a year. It is $10 a month for a year plus other purchases. I'll point out again where Paiz stated in an interview how they were surprised to find those paying a subscription purchased additional things from the DDO Store above and beyond what they spent on the Subscription.

It may have started out in their particular view as a way to transition to F2P but it turned into something more.

You can't just say "Look at all I spend. Ignore what you spend. Oh see I spend more!" and assume we are going to agree with your logic or your conclusion.

If I stop playing tomorrow, Turbine looses $9.99 a month. If you stop playing tomorrow, Turbine looses?

[Uska]

How so? You just stated that you can not afford to drop a couple of hundred dollars into the game. So why would you drop your sub if premiums that spend equal or more than you gain elite unlock?

This is the theme of all VIPs: the scare tactic.

If I don't get this or that I will drop my sub. Yeah right. Most VIPs can not afford to drop their subs because of all the perks it has and all the content they would be forced to purchase to keep such content.

VIPs that argue they need this perk to stay VIP are failing to realize what VIP means. I do have VIP guildies, friends and TR buddy that can unlock it for me. But to have to rely on some one to get a bonus is no the way to go.

I know they will fix it and then we will see all the VIPs starting threads about how it is unfair the premiums are getting bonus.

No Madfloyd already said they arent going to be givng away elite unlock but are looking at giving it to TR's possibly

[Caine33]

Not sure why every thread about this degenerates into how much money has been doled out to Turbine through Subs or through Micro-Transactions.

I've been VIP for 5-6 years (What year is it now?)...Does it matter how much I have put into the system over that time compared to a premium who started last Tuesday?

At the end, this was a proposed mechanic, and it has not been put live. Offer your feedback and see how the chips fall.

People need to step back and take a deep breath.

Maybe Turbine can avoid this type of thing by stamping ideas with the Beta tag??

[rest]

Can't it be both?

Well maybe

[kernal42]

You can't just say "Look at all I spend. Ignore what you spend. Oh see I spend more!" and assume we are going to agree with your logic or your conclusion.

If I stop playing tomorrow, Turbine looses $9.99 a month. If you stop playing tomorrow, Turbine looses?

Tell me someone else sees the irony here?

-Kernal

[rest]

Honestly, if the elite unlock were a permanent, account-wide bonus allowing you to forever more unlock that one quest on elite, I would totally do it for a few quests.

Unless the cost of it goes down dramatically (to a few tens of TP), it's still not practical to take advantage of the bravery bonus. Remember; you're not talking a single elite unlock, you're talking about 5-10 or more. If I wanted to use the Bravery system on a new TR, it would be cheaper for me to go VIP than pay for individual unlocks.

The elite unlocks were a good answer (if overpriced) to the VIP elite-open perk, but they are not an answer to the new Bravery mechanic.

-Kernal

This. I say change the bravery bonus to work differently so as not to affect elite opening, don't change the VIP perk of opening on elite to make the bravery bonus work.

[AeliusMaximus]

So tell me again why you believe you should get the same opportunities as those who are offering not only similar burst income but steady income? I mean we are talking about a bonus that will allow you to level 9% faster? In a game where capping even a TR'd character can take about a month or two. Your not even paying anything more if it takes you three months because you have already given Turbine your money.

+1 QFT

This sounds like yet another "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie something for nothing" thread. I mean really, people do understand that Turbine is a business, right? Paying customers who pay more typically get more stuff. Nothing magical or mysterious here. Do you walk into McDonald's and expect to eat there free for life because you once paid for a happy meal 3 years ago? No, of course not. So why do you expect to be fed for life here in DDO because you paid for some content a while back? VIPs continue to pay real-life money ... therefore they deserve some perks. Get over it or pay up.

[Hokiewa]

You are telling a business would rather have $10 a month for one year for a total of $120 over another customer spending $200- $300 in the same year to "own" their product?

People are just silly. That is bad business 101.

I did not include extra purchases because to be honest there is no way to tell. But the bare minimums speak for themselves and is a reason that turbine introduced the premium account.

Disingenuous at best. Your assumptions are a bit crazy. You can't open with a min investment for VIPS as a concrete definition then back pedal and say wait a minute...I didn't include extra purchases then not include the bare minimum for a Prem player. It's simply a bogus comparision.

Let's give you a chance then and include the bare minimums. $120 a year for VIPS (this is a 3 month package deal) and what for Prem? That's right $6.95....(or whatever they may be on sale for)...and that 6.95 isn't just a yr...

[kernal42]

Honestly, IMO:
VIP perks are important. Giving up or reducing their last significant perk by granting Premium or TRs hard or elite unlocks is not good.
At the same time, allowing these perks to have serious play implications, as by the Bravery mechanic, is also not good.

So there are two options.
A) Kill the Bravery mechanic. (easy, but I still think VIPs could use a little more perk).
B) Implement the Bravery mechanic, give Premium/F2P/TRs hard/Elite unlocks, and give VIPs some other, new perk.

And, honestly, I think (A) is the better option - Turbine doesn't want to give F2P/Premium players free elite unlocks because it would make favor farming (and therefore free TP) too easy.

-Kernal

[rest]

Honestly, IMO:
VIP perks are important. Giving up or reducing their last significant perk by granting Premium or TRs hard or elite unlocks is not good.
At the same time, allowing these perks to have serious play implications, as by the Bravery mechanic, is also not good.

So there are two options.
A) Kill the Bravery mechanic. (easy, but I still think VIPs could use a little more perk).
B) Implement the Bravery mechanic, give Premium/F2P/TRs hard/Elite unlocks, and give VIPs some other, new perk.

And, honestly, I think (A) is the better option - Turbine doesn't want to give F2P/Premium players free elite unlocks because it would make favor farming (and therefore free TP) too easy.

-Kernal

I would prefer A with the caveat that it not be killed, just changed to work equally for all subscription levels. Yes, even f2p.

[Caine33]

Honestly, IMO:
VIP perks are important. Giving up or reducing their last significant perk by granting Premium or TRs hard or elite unlocks is not good.
At the same time, allowing these perks to have serious play implications, as by the Bravery mechanic, is also not good.

So there are two options.
A) Kill the Bravery mechanic. (easy, but I still think VIPs could use a little more perk).
B) Implement the Bravery mechanic, give Premium/F2P/TRs hard/Elite unlocks, and give VIPs some other, new perk.

And, honestly, I think (A) is the better option - Turbine doesn't want to give F2P/Premium players free elite unlocks because it would make favor farming (and therefore free TP) too easy.

-Kernal

The problem with B is there will always be people who shout that whatever perk is being given to VIP is too much and should somehow be compensated for to everyone, regardless of payment option.

[kernal42]

The problem with B is there will always be people who shout that whatever perk is being given to VIP is too much and should somehow be compensated for to everyone, regardless of payment option.

Good - if there aren't some crazies who think that you're getting too much, then you're not getting enough.
On the other hand, if it's a significant population who think that, they may be right.
My opinion is that, so long as the perk is convenience, sane people shouldn't complain. I also think that an effective +9% exp boost is more than just convenience.

-Kernal

[muny21]

Paying customers who pay more typically get more stuff.

Well you just shot yourself in the foot with that one. Premiums that purchase all content pay more than VIPs that only pay for the sub which will have to be active for anywhere between 1.5 years and 2.5 years. a little outdated but gives the jist off it:

"As you can see from the Grand Total charts if you’re happy with slots 1-4 you’ll be looking at a total of $218.32, which is about equivalent to 1.5 years of VIP subscription. And if you want slots 5-10 you are looking at a total of $320.02, or 2.2 years of VIP subscription."

cited from this web page:
http://furlugedepot.com/2009/09/15/t...-free-to-play/

This is not taking into account the premiums also buy xp pots, cakes, armor, hair dye, and etc.

This just takes into account the bare minimums alone. So therefore, they should get more than your VIP sub gets you.

You are right, they should.

[Mercules]

Tell me someone else sees the irony here?

-Kernal

Well, if I were to go back through my bank statements I bet I can find at least $200 dollars I have spent for TPs on top of my subscription this last year. So having someone say that they get to claim the $200-$300 dollars they have spent in the last year but I only get to claim my subscription fee as anything past that can't be determined is silly.

The company I work for sells software. OUR license for our software works in that we charge you for each report your print from it and you need to purchase reports in advance as well as a small yearly subscription. Our competitors worked in that you pay one large up front fee but it is yours forever.

Guess who bought who out? Now I get to try and enforce a licensing policy that has people feel they are entitled to run software designed for Win98 on Win7 and that we should upgrade it for free because years ago they paid for it.

In that scenario bug fixes and technical support is a black hole and only new products that completely alter the functionality or output are of any value. They spend WAY too much on development which lead to them going out of business and us acquiring them. Our software on the other hand encourages US to keep it working and bug free because if it doesn't people cancel subscriptions and don't buy report usages.

Turbine's incentive for the Premium is "New Content." bug fixes? Not really because they don't buy bug fixes, they buy content. Turbine's incentive for VIP is not just content, but bug fixes because if it doesn't work, we don't pay next month's subscription. Premium has already paid.

That is my point.

[Mercules]

Well you just shot yourself in the foot with that one. Premiums that purchase all content pay more than VIPs that only pay for the sub which will have to be active for anywhere between 1.5 years and 2.5 years. a little outdated but gives the jist off it:

"As you can see from the Grand Total charts if you’re happy with slots 1-4 you’ll be looking at a total of $218.32, which is about equivalent to 1.5 years of VIP subscription. And if you want slots 5-10 you are looking at a total of $320.02, or 2.2 years of VIP subscription."

cited from this web page:
http://furlugedepot.com/2009/09/15/t...-free-to-play/

This is not taking into account the premiums also buy xp pots, cakes, armor, hair dye, and etc.

This just takes into account the bare minimums alone. So therefore, they should get more than your VIP sub gets you.

You are right, they should.

There you go again. Prentending VIPs don't buy TPs, extra slots, and also pretending Premium buy EVERY adventure pack. Blatantly false.

You do know that if you bought the Korthos grog you are a Premium Player? Right? Shall we make a Strawman out of that and beat it up like you like to make a Strawman argument stating you pay more?