Reaver's fate

[Cyr]

I am really confused. Does Turbine actually think that scaling raids upwards in challenge to a silly point based upon their level will make people not notice the very slow release of new end game content?

Why are the developers spending time on this instead of making more epic quests?

[grodon9999]

Gonna have to agree with the Dingal here.

Painful ain't it?

[Ssmooth]

Should "Elite" Waterworks pose a challenge to level 20s?

level 14 on elite = level 16 raid.

Really trying to figure out this complex puzzle.......still working on it.

[Cyr]

Should "Elite" Waterworks pose a challenge to level 20s?

level 14 on elite = level 16 raid.

Indeed. Quests on elite should be challenging for their level with level appropriate gear.

Quests should never be balanced for higher level characters and non-level appropriate gear. End game of course has any gear possible so it should have the highest range of scaling available.

Level 16 IS NOT END GAME. Reaver has not been end game for MANY YEARS.

[Ssmooth]

Indeed. Quests on elite should be challenging for their level with level appropriate gear.

Quests should never be balanced for higher level characters and non-level appropriate gear. End game of course has any gear possible so it should have the highest range of scaling available.

Level 16 IS NOT END GAME. Reaver has not been end game for MANY YEARS.

You think this will challenge level 20's on elite??

LMAO!!

[grodon9999]

You think this will challenge level 20's on elite??

LMAO!!

Point taken.

[Tarragon12]

So I tried reaver's fate elite on lama to see how stronger reaver is now. By my estimations his melee dmg is about 10-20% higher than currently on live server. And he has about 10x more HP. I was able to get reaver to about 80% HP by the time I got fly(and I didn't went easy on him at all like I do on live). On live he is usually at 20% at this time. And when I got back from pulling the switch I got hit with disintegrate(failed save) for 500dmg and that killed me(as cleric I have only 519HP with rage and yugo pot).
I think the disintegrate is doing too big dmg considering that you can't rez anyone. And with reaver having that many HP that could be a big problem, it will take longer for full grp to kill him=> he will oneshot almost anyone=>fewer ppl doing dmg=>so on. I think it needs more testing but..
what do you think, it is better now or worse?

edit: also i think that failed save was 2+26 so his DC is probably little higher

Good thing, trs no longer bother with Reaver.

[moops]

This raid was much harder on Elite when lvl cap was 14 than it is now--it was due to the air elementals and people spending most of the time on their backs flying up into the spikes. . . But people complained it was too hard and it got changed what 2 or 3 times? Yet even in it's most difficult form we still finished on Elite MOST of the time when lvl cap was 14.

I just did it at lvl with 3 alts, 2 non TRs on elite--wait we were 15 so one below level.

Something had to change, though maybe 250 is better than 500--however I agree with the other poster that someone else can just step in and tank.

Oh, and I don't think that the raid loot is lame. Madstone boots are still one of the most highly sought after items, and most people like to have 2 or 3 pairs. Also, I have seen the most +3 tomes drop in this raid, and only shroud has beaten it on the end rewards list in terms of +3 tomes.

[TheDjinnFor]

I also pose the same question. Did they up Horoth's disintegrate as well to 600-700 to "scale up the difficulty" as well?

No, because they only added metamagics, physical damage, HP, and some utility buffs.

Disintegrate caps at CL 20 for 40d3+120 damage. Horoth has maximize and empower, making it 100d3+300, or 400-600, average 500. The reaver has been given maximize now in addition to the empower he had before, making his disintegrate equivalent to horoths.

level 14 on elite = level 16 raid.

Already acknowledged in the post you quoted:

It's ELITE....why should it be a walk in the park? At level 16, a fighter/barb should have over 500hp. You shouldn't be able to tank with a drow sorc...or solo it at level 12 with a wf sorc...

Note also that VoD and HoX are just level 17 on norm and a lot easier to fail or otherwise cost resources to complete.

[Ssmooth]

Note also that VoD and HoX are just level 17 on norm and a lot easier to fail or otherwise cost resources to complete.

My point: It(Reaver Elite) should be more difficult to complete at level.

VoD on normal is not easy to fail, nor does it use resourses.

HoX fails due to retards that cannot follow directions....

[Qzipoun]

it's a level 14 raid, this is ********.

This...

If the Reaver hit 500HP+ disintegrates back in MOD4 when the Reaver came out, it would have been a huge raid disaster.

Yes the Reaver is a cakewalk, but that's because SIX levels have been added to the game. Beefing a raid up because it is a cakewalk for 20s is stupid

[Ssmooth]

This...

If the Reaver hit 500HP+ disintegrates back in MOD4 when the Reaver came out, it would have been a huge raid disaster.

Yes the Reaver is a cakewalk, but that's because SIX levels have been added to the game. Beefing a raid up because it is a cakewalk for 20s is stupid

You can't be serious.....

This kind of argument is rediculous. This was end-game. This was fun to figure out and the ele's knock-down ablility was an obstacle that could cause a wipe with poor luck(Ele's spawn on tank with first globe, cleric's can't stand up to heal, die, followed by quickly by the rest of the party).

[Havok.cry]

No, because they only added metamagics, physical damage, HP, and some utility buffs.

Disintegrate caps at CL 20 for 40d3+120 damage. Horoth has maximize and empower, making it 100d3+300, or 400-600, average 500. The reaver has been given maximize now in addition to the empower he had before, making his disintegrate equivalent to horoths.

Do you know what those unspecified utility buffs are? DO you know wheather or not horoth has been brewing impact VI pots to improve his disintegrate?

IMHO raids on ELITE should challenge well geared multi TR characters AT LEVEL. It SHOULD keep the healer on it's toes. It SHOULD make the tank panic. It should keep the party awake to fill gaps, step in holes in the line and generally be active.

Would someone do the math and tell me wheather or not TANKS (not the silly casters who think they should have the right to tank anything and everything) can get high enough HP to take that disintegrate at level 16?
As I am talking about the best of the best not averages Im assuming a warforged with max con (with level points in str tho).

we'll use a barb as an example:
class: 16x12= 192
con: not sure what highest possible at lvl 16 is but a quick calculation make 46 relatively easy to get to for a multi TR hp from that: 288 at lvl 16
toughness items feats and enhancments: 22+20+40+40=122

so far we are at 602... and havent even factored in yugo pots, past lives or things like that.

A 500 point disintegrate will not kill the best well geared level 16 tanks, who are supported by good healers and a good party... it will kill the not best ones... the lazy ones and the ones that aren't tanks.

[joaofalcao]

Note also that VoD and HoX are just level 17 on norm and a lot easier to fail or otherwise cost resources to complete.

VoD and Hox are lvl 18.

But you die, there is the penalty box vs. just getting an easy res.

Did they change that on lamma? Because on the live servers you are grounded. You cant be rezzed till the end of the raid.

IMHO raids on ELITE should challenge well geared multi TR characters AT LEVEL.

Really, do I have to TR before doing elite content? IMHO challenge should be based on team effort and cooperative play rather in how many TRs you get. I cant really fathom why I should TR before doing elite content. Sorry.

Um Im gonna go out on a limb here and try to answer why a level 16 raid shouldnt challenge a group full of level 20s:

Because it's a level 16 raid. Not a level 20 raid. We have level 20 raids that are here to be challenging for level 20s.

+1 dingal

This reminds me of my lvl 12 tank being refused into an adq2.The answer of the party leader was that I wouldnt be usefull in the raid.

If you cant see this point here, you have the same mindset the party leader in this example.

Drop it folks. There are other lvls in this game other than 20.

[thewalex]

It's ELITE....why should it be a walk in the park? At level 16, a fighter/barb should have over 500hp. You shouldn't be able to tank with a drow sorc...or solo it at level 12 with a wf sorc...

I do see your argument that this was made endlevel when the level cap was the level of the raid. I do agree that it has gotten a bit ridiculous how easily it can be to tank and complete the raid. I do think it is a good policy to change up antiquated raids and quests to make the player base come up with new strategies for success.

Should "Elite" Waterworks pose a challenge to level 20s?

level 14 on elite = level 16 raid.

However, I'm going to have to side with gordon here. As long as Reaver's fate remains a level 16 raid when on the elite setting and grants XP appropriate for level 16 characters, I should have an easier time with my level 20 character than with a level 16 character. If the quest level is changed to say that it is a level 20 quest on elite mode and grants XP reflecting the increased difficulty (to characters up to level 19), I will rest my case and probably just not run it anymore. The amount of time searching and waiting for an "appropriate tank" to run HoX and VoD and having them die/be incompetent and cause a wipe has completely turned me off from those raids. A level appropriate barbarian should be able to take a hit from one of those disintegrates, yes. With lag being what it is these days, what if he spam fires two in rapid succession and my heals don't go through? I know plenty of barbarians with >500 HP but not many with >1000 HP. And since his aggro is often reset and random after gravity reversal... Hello party! PEW PEW PEW! Hope you didn't need those casters and healers!

I don't want to go reductio ad absurdum, but it seems like a slippery slope. What next? VON elite should the same require end-level geared capped characters as epic? Waterworks elite will require bossbeaters?

I remember what it was like to have a gimp 28-point character built assuming DDO translated well from P&P. I know for a fact that that toon couldn't have repelled firepower of that magnitude, and that would have probably made me lose interest in the game. That may be no concern to other players, but turbine wouldn't have made nearly as much money off of my purchases of hats...

[DragonTroy]

The Reaver's Fate has been known for a looooooooooooo(insert more 'o's for emphasis as needed)ng as 'a pikers raid', 'The Piker's Fate', and 'GEMMEH MY MADSTONES AND JUST SIT THERE!!!!1!!11!' for a long time. it is a raid in which most people do absolutely nothing.

is this endgame? no. never will be. doesnt matter. this place needed an upgrade, we shouldnt call anything where we have 1 WF wizard/ lich with a solver doing everything a 'raid'

i for one am excited to see this new and improved stormreaver. he's supposed to be the champion of the giants, he SHOULD be hard to kill, whether its by 12 lvl 13-15 characters (i see those lfms maybe once in a blue moon) or by 12 lvl 20 characters.

oh, and they should also raise the loot chance to reflect the amount of time and work being put into this, and every raid, is also going to be increased

[dingal]

Do you know what those unspecified utility buffs are? DO you know wheather or not horoth has been brewing impact VI pots to improve his disintegrate?

IMHO raids on ELITE should challenge well geared multi TR characters AT LEVEL. It SHOULD keep the healer on it's toes. It SHOULD make the tank panic. It should keep the party awake to fill gaps, step in holes in the line and generally be active.

Would someone do the math and tell me wheather or not TANKS (not the silly casters who think they should have the right to tank anything and everything) can get high enough HP to take that disintegrate at level 16?
As I am talking about the best of the best not averages Im assuming a warforged with max con (with level points in str tho).

we'll use a barb as an example:
class: 16x12= 192
con: not sure what highest possible at lvl 16 is but a quick calculation make 46 relatively easy to get to for a multi TR hp from that: 288 at lvl 16
toughness items feats and enhancments: 22+20+40+40=122

so far we are at 602... and havent even factored in yugo pots, past lives or things like that.

A 500 point disintegrate will not kill the best well geared level 16 tanks, who are supported by good healers and a good party... it will kill the not best ones... the lazy ones and the ones that aren't tanks.

SO Chrono on elite should challenge well geared level 20's?

How about Tempest's Spine?

NO

A level 10 raid on elite should challenge level 12's.

End of story.

[Havok.cry]

SO Chrono on elite should challenge well geared level 20's?

How about Tempest's Spine?

NO

A level 10 raid on elite should challenge level 12's.

End of story.

you didnt read what i wrote.... i said it should challenge levl 16s... you know at level... never said it should callenge 20s... then i did math based on level 16s... please read something before telling someone they are wrong.

[dingal]

you didnt read what i wrote.... i said it should challenge levl 16s... you know at level... never said it should callenge 20s... then i did math based on level 16s... please read something before telling someone they are wrong.

My bad I think I quoted the wrong post honestly.

[sweez]

I am really confused. Does Turbine actually think that scaling raids upwards in challenge to a silly point based upon their level will make people not notice the very slow release of new end game content?

Why are the developers spending time on this instead of making more epic quests?

Yep, basically comes down to this.

Problem with reaver, it's a horribly designed raid. It's a boring pike-fest not because Reaver is too weak, it's a boring pike-fest because it's, well, horribly designed.

Making new difficult content to challenge players = good. Modifying existing boss stats = a very cheap cop-out. If you wanna "fix" reaver, change something about the raid mechanic.