Bloodplates dealing alot more damage. I like it.

[Nick_RC]

Nice change in the bloodplate fight. Seems like he does more damage the less armor he has. I got hit for 203 today and my guildie got hit for 189 (he has dr 10 tho). And yes we had heavy fort. Makes it alot more interesting - in fact he pwnd me with 2 quick several hundred point hits. This combined with the new hp totals will be interesting!

Good change devs for an Epic raid that is a touch on the easy side in that fight.

N

[grodon9999]

Easy for us, people wipe in that raid every day. Thank you Turbine for excluding a good chunk of your players!

[sirgog]

That will be interesting.

Anyone tested the effectiveness of AC in there yet?

[Nick_RC]

Easy for us, people wipe in that raid every day. Thank you Turbine for excluding a good chunk of your players!

Not in the bloodplate fight - and I pug echrono alot.

[Nick_RC]

That will be interesting.

Anyone tested the effectiveness of AC in there yet?

Sorry man dont know anyone with an ac toon...go figure.

[dredre9987]

Though the shield mastery feats may actually have a use now.

[noinfo]

That will be interesting.

Anyone tested the effectiveness of AC in there yet?

Previously worthless. I will try it again when on live at different AC levels.

[DrNuegebauer]

Easy for us, people wipe in that raid every day. Thank you Turbine for excluding a good chunk of your players!

Yes, because epic should be for people who have just hit 20 and not yet crafted greensteel. Especially an epic raid.

I don't see the problem with it being harder and more "wipe-worthy" - I can't see why people shouldn't have "tougher" toons to take on the longest epic raid in the game (shouldn't it therefore be at the pinnacle?)

[moops]

I agree.
I think we will actually see some use of dif strategies instead of the brute force surround and pound we see now.

As it is, the abashi have done the most damage in the pugs that I've been in, and that doesnt seem right.

[voodoogroves]

Well I pretty much only PUG it ... but man I watch for groups with people I know who will be likely to succeed already. I tend to run it on a healing type, so I'm acutely aware of how bad things can go.

Thankfully I tend to run that in the same general time as some solid folks from the EU / AP regions who don't always fill out their guild runs.

[Aaxeyu]

Easy for us, people wipe in that raid every day. Thank you Turbine for excluding a good chunk of your players!

Thanks indeed. The whole game can't be catered to casual pugs.

[Angelus_dead]

Nice change in the bloodplate fight. Seems like he does more damage the less armor he has. I got hit for 203 today and my guildie got hit for 189 (he has dr 10 tho). And yes we had heavy fort. Makes it alot more interesting - in fact he pwnd me with 2 quick several hundred point hits. This combined with the new hp totals will be interesting!

Did Bloodplate have his buff mode active at that time?

[Rumbaar]

Two camps, those that feel uber geared characters should be challenged and those that feel that 'normal' gamers should be challenged.

Rarely are both parties happy, without affecting the game play of the other.

[lugoman]

Yes, because epic should be for people who have just hit 20 and not yet crafted greensteel. Especially an epic raid.

I don't see the problem with it being harder and more "wipe-worthy" - I can't see why people shouldn't have "tougher" toons to take on the longest epic raid in the game (shouldn't it therefore be at the pinnacle?)

Except it wont make it tougher for those guilds that run it 4 times in a row every two days. Those groups will probably barely notice the change. Those who arent in such a guild but still would like to make a "tougher" toon will find it much harder to find pug chrono's if they start wiping a lot.

I can understand people who invested a lot of time/effort into their toons wanting some challange. I just dont know how Turbine does this without shutting out a lot of more casual players.

[Shade]

Easy for us, people wipe in that raid every day. Thank you Turbine for excluding a good chunk of your players!

Theres no excluded. That raid was always such a joke I always took random puggers with minimal gear checks and often even none.

So yea it might need 2-3 well built core players now sure, as it should.

When a freakin favored soul solo's any epic raid you know the games too easy. This was neccesary.

Plus theres always normal. Noobs that dont want a challenge, go have fun pwning it up. And dont whine about the epic gear because its really not taht good unless you get the full 3+ piece set - which is far beyond the grasp of players who have difficulty with this raid anyways. I mean a casual player may grind out 1 epic item over the course of a year.. a 3 piece set? No.

[Rumbaar]

Theres no excluded. That raid was always such a joke I always took random puggers with minimal gear checks and often even none.

Even without extend?!!

[Isolani]

Two camps, those that feel uber geared characters should be challenged and those that feel that 'normal' gamers should be challenged.

Rarely are both parties happy, without affecting the game play of the other.

After playing EQ for about 5 years, I would say that catering to the uber raiders is a bigger mistake than catering to "normal" gamers. EQ is still the best raiding game there is, there are literally hundreds of raids and raid bosses in that game, and hardly anybody plays it. The graphics are dated for one thing, but power creep is so ridiculous in that game after 11+ years, no normal gamer would survive 1 round of attacks from a boss mob, and not many new players are interested in going through a raid progression grind for 6-12 months to gear up and grind alternate advancement xp to get into a raiding guild. The ubers are happy in EQ, everybody else just moved on to other games.

I would have prefered if they had left epics as is and just made an even harder epic difficulty (Insanity, Nightmare, whatever) with better loot chances or a couple of new loots only available at the higher setting or something.

[lugoman]

Theres no excluded. That raid was always such a joke I always took random puggers with minimal gear checks and often even none.

So yea it might need 2-3 well built core players now sure, as it should.

When a freakin favored soul solo's any epic raid you know the games too easy. This was neccesary.

Plus theres always normal. Noobs that dont want a challenge, go have fun pwning it up. And dont whine about the epic gear because its really not taht good unless you get the full 3+ piece set - which is far beyond the grasp of players who have difficulty with this raid anyways. I mean a casual player may grind out 1 epic item over the course of a year.. a 3 piece set? No.

Not just casual players will be effected, but players who are in guilds that dont run epics regularly. Many rely on pugs for epic gear. It isnt impossible to build up some nice gear in epic pugs.

[Khellendros13]

Make raids harder? Sure, do it.

It is the way they do it though, just add a tonne of hp and dmg. All this does is skew the options to high hp barbs or fighters and casters. Boring.

Why not add a named Devil or something to the fight that needs to be dealt with?

Make the fight more interesting, not just a higher threshold for hp.

[DrNuegebauer]

Except it wont make it tougher for those guilds that run it 4 times in a row every two days. Those groups will probably barely notice the change. Those who arent in such a guild but still would like to make a "tougher" toon will find it much harder to find pug chrono's if they start wiping a lot.

I can understand people who invested a lot of time/effort into their toons wanting some challange. I just dont know how Turbine does this without shutting out a lot of more casual players.

Certainly it will still be easily completed by those mentioned. Higher damage will present a bit more of a challenge.

Casual players aren't being "shut out" - rather they're being "forced upwards". It's not compulsory to run eChrono - if they don't feel like they can handle it with higher damage, perhaps they could work on perfecting ToD first. (or heck, Shroud if they haven't got that down yet) By the time they figure that stuff out, they might actually (shock horror) be geared up enough to take on eChrono.

(note: the argument is not exclusive for eChrono, but for any content containing higher difficulties)

It doesn't shut them out at all. It just moves the end game to a place they still need to reach.


The logic of "make the world revolve around the casual gamer" should eventually lead us to skip the ridiculous levelling process: just make vet status take us to 20, and pick from a list of raid gear for the items we want.
If you think that's a stupid idea (it is) then you agree that part of a game like this is the quest to improve a toon to the point where you can 'advance' to the next stage. If that's the basis, then pushing end game away from poorly geared 20s is no big deal - if anything it extends their gaming experience.