Artificer replaces X?

[Havok.cry]

A short man or 6 person quest character this class makes more sense, but for a raid party with a bunch of fleshies it seems a bit odd.

If all they were bringing was reconstruct you might have a point... but that would be like saying bards only have cure spells. The class will bring alot more than just reconstructing to the table. Bladebarrier for one, as you noted, and they will be another source of undispellable buffs, that stack with bard buffs. They also use grenades, including healing grenades... which may or may not be useful. They have access to both positive healing and reconstructing. They seem to be self sufficient. If they end up being the ultimate umders then they can also bring ALL the arcane and divine buffs as well as the new artificers.

[TreknaQudane]

I was not aware they got blade barrior. This is the first time I have become interested in playing this class due to the blade barrior spell. A warforge blade barrior character that can reconstruct itself with some additional damage sources (cannon, lt xbow) and rogue skills is at least moderately interesting. The buffs found thus far are stronger then the pnp counterparts which means ddo seems to want them to be strong buff characters. I am not sure how they would fit into a raid party though. A short man or 6 person quest character this class makes more sense, but for a raid party with a bunch of fleshies it seems a bit odd.

In PnP Artificers get the ability to, eventually, add any enhancement with a +3 value or less to Armor and Weapons. They also get Greater Magical Weapon (so do Wizards, Clerics, Sorcerers, and Favored Souls) that lets you treat a +1 Weapon as if it were a +5 Weapon. This means while we've seen the ability to add basic 1d6 Elemental Damage.. we lose out on Holy, Puncturing, Keen, Elemental Burst, Ghost Touch etc.
What artificers get is .. different.. but not really stronger unless there is a scroll of Weapon Augmentation/Greater Weapon Augmentation floating around.

[jackabat]

They also use grenades, including healing grenades... which may or may not be useful. They have access to both positive healing and reconstructing.

I'm wondering if they'll have enough positive healing to actually classify as a "healer." I'm assuming they'll get more than just that first level healing grenade, of course.

I'm guessing in reality they'll have plenty of healing effects to easily keep low to mid-level party members up, but pugs will still wait waaay to long for a "real healer," kind of like how people treat bards now.

[Failedlegend]

I'm wondering if they'll have enough positive healing to actually classify as a "healer." I'm assuming they'll get more than just that first level healing grenade, of course.

I'm guessing in reality they'll have plenty of healing effects to easily keep low to mid-level party members up, but pugs will still wait waaay to long for a "real healer," kind of like how people treat bards now.

Funny cause I find no issue with Bards healing....alot of them are 1000x better than the majority of Battle-Clerics (yes I'm aware there about 5-10ish Battle clerics that are awesome).

[maddmatt70]

If all they were bringing was reconstruct you might have a point... but that would be like saying bards only have cure spells. The class will bring alot more than just reconstructing to the table. Bladebarrier for one, as you noted, and they will be another source of undispellable buffs, that stack with bard buffs. They also use grenades, including healing grenades... which may or may not be useful. They have access to both positive healing and reconstructing. They seem to be self sufficient. If they end up being the ultimate umders then they can also bring ALL the arcane and divine buffs as well as the new artificers.

Understood on the buff spells. It seems to me though that alot of these buff spells are single target which implies that for the average or even above average player other then throwing these buff spells on the main tank sort of scenario in a raid that they will not be able to keep these up on a raid party. As a bard player for years and having observed hundred of bard players I know that alot of these folks are just plain downright lousy at keeping buffs on the other characters in a raid party.

It also will be a question of what artificer spell buffs stack with gear and spell buffs that the raid party members already have. The stacking seems problematic.

This all assumes that one of the artificer's damage sources is not OP or something for instance the arm cannon could be OP damagewise for all we know. I do not see the artificer really function in a raid party very well from what I have gathered from the class thus far..

[Aashrym]

I was not aware they got blade barrior. This is the first time I have become interested in playing this class due to the blade barrior spell. A warforge blade barrior character that can reconstruct itself with some additional damage sources (cannon, lt xbow) and rogue skills is at least moderately interesting. The buffs found thus far are stronger then the pnp counterparts which means ddo seems to want them to be strong buff characters. I am not sure how they would fit into a raid party though. A short man or 6 person quest character this class makes more sense, but for a raid party with a bunch of fleshies it seems a bit odd.

I'm not sure how expensive it will be to use the buffs. They tend to be strong single target buffs and a raid party sounds a bit expensive, so we'll see when we have more info.

A lot of the buffs are specific to constructs but I think armor and weapon augmentation are being broken out into a lot of separate infusions and that is where the common buffs would be coming from. Back to waiting for more info.

Blade barrier should be available to artificers at level 15.

[Aashrym]

It seems to me though that alot of these buff spells are single target...

I see you've already noticed what I just posted.

[Havok.cry]

Understood on the buff spells. It seems to me though that alot of these buff spells are single target which implies that for the average or even above average player other then throwing these buff spells on the main tank sort of scenario in a raid that they will not be able to keep these up on a raid party. As a bard player for years and having observed hundred of bard players I know that alot of these folks are just plain downright lousy at keeping buffs on the other characters in a raid party.

It also will be a question of what artificer spell buffs stack with gear and spell buffs that the raid party members already have. The stacking seems problematic.

This all assumes that one of the artificer's damage sources is not OP or something for instance the arm cannon could be OP damage wise for all we know. I do not see the artificer really function in a raid party very well from what I have gathered from the class thus far..

Sadly too true. I am hoping extend will apply to those single target buffs... or honestly I'll be just as lazy with buffs as most people I know... that is buff on request cause Im targeting the enemy not examining you. I'm in a wait and see mode right now.... of course for me that means I am considering 1001 build ideas that probably won't work when we actually see the class. Still I'm excited about a class that specializes in using a single one hander. Hopefully no one will call my artificer gimp when he's swinging his shiny new epic chimera's fang and blasting stuff with his arm cannon.

[Havok.cry]

I'm wondering if they'll have enough positive healing to actually classify as a "healer." I'm assuming they'll get more than just that first level healing grenade, of course.

I'm guessing in reality they'll have plenty of healing effects to easily keep low to mid-level party members up, but pugs will still wait waaay to long for a "real healer," kind of like how people treat bards now.

I hope those grenades are at least as good as bard healing

[Aashrym]

I hope those grenades are at least as good as bard healing

I'm hoping bards get something as good as the 5 charge 2d10+20d6+6 damage a 20th level artificer thought spike does. I wonder how long it takes to charge up.

[Rodasch]

I'm hoping bards get something as good as the 5 charge 2d10+20d6+6 damage a 20th level artificer thought spike does. I wonder how long it takes to charge up.

That takes 5 seconds to charge up to that point, it's not 5 charges.
the number values listed before the damage are the seconds spent charging the item.

[Havok.cry]

I'm hoping bards get something as good as the 5 charge 2d10+20d6+6 damage a 20th level artificer thought spike does. I wonder how long it takes to charge up.

Hmmm perhaps I should have expounded more... I was not hoping to have healing that competes. I was hoping to have the ability to use potions close to as effectively as a non-heal-focused bard's spells. I am hoping for this because it would be interesting and no thoughts of "is this OP" have entered into my consideration. Also I am hoping for large numbers not neccesarily great heals... I can imagine that the ability might be slower than normal heals as you'd have to pull out item throw it, item travels through the air at normal grenade range, and then misses your buddy cause he moved while all that happened.

[Aashrym]

That takes 5 seconds to charge up to that point, it's not 5 charges.
the number values listed before the damage are the seconds spent charging the item.

I wasn't sure if there would be real charge costs or not. It's listed as a tier 5 charge but I did not know how long that takes to achieve.

The fact that higher level rune arms can go to a higher tier charge is also interesting.

[thegreatneil]

Hmmm perhaps I should have expounded more... I was not hoping to have healing that competes. I was hoping to have the ability to use potions close to as effectively as a non-heal-focused bard's spells. I am hoping for this because it would be interesting and no thoughts of "is this OP" have entered into my consideration. Also I am hoping for large numbers not neccesarily great heals... I can imagine that the ability might be slower than normal heals as you'd have to pull out item throw it, item travels through the air at normal grenade range, and then misses your buddy cause he moved while all that happened.

From the look of the (cure pot throwing) spells already, it might be competitive.
1) seems to have enhancements for it.
2) can pick a target (so why wouldn't it work like a cure mass spell)
**as of right now, i have only seen scrolls, so not sure if meta's apply. (personally i hope the do)

[dingal]

So in a typical party makeup which slot does Artificer replace?

If the artificer class proves to be viable they don't replace anyone except the person who clicked the LFM or X'ed up 2 seconds after they did.

[QuantumFX]

Artificer PrE-wise, there'll be the... Hey, wait, I should make a puzzle for that.

Or… turns on Coalescence Chamber DM voice… turn Artificers ‘on’ on Lamannia.

[Pintail]

Artie "can I join your group?"
Leader "Sure what's your con?"
Artie "8"
Leader "8!?"
Artie "Need high strength for Dps"
Leader "Mumbling to himself "Dps my sweert *ss"
Artie "Need High Dex for ac"
Leader "groan"
Artie "Need High Intel and Char for umd"
Leader "But 8 con!?"
Artie falls off bar in Wayfarer Inn
"Ding"

[Angelus_dead]

Or… turns on Coalescence Chamber DM voice… turn Artificers ‘on’ on Lamannia.

Are you assuming Artificers will have the prestige specialties ready to go right out of the gate? Do you remember how long it was from the release of Favored Souls until they had their first completed specialty?

[jandhaer]

As i see it all depends on whos playing it if I know they are all good players that I have faith in I have no probs taking all 6 of the same of any class so far in ddo, all the classes so far with know how/gear can turn into absolute beasts (self sufficient ones even) that will storm through all but the most extreme situations in current content.

[Chazzie]

I dont think the new class will replace any of the type of toons we can roll atm , but after running into a few on Lami I cant wait to get the chance to roll one