Half Orc Vs Dwarf

[game5551]

I have a dwarf barbarian. I am planning ahead, going to TR someday, and making my gs weapon now. If I TR into a dwarf I will make a greataxe, if I tr into a Half Orc a Falcion.

My question is how much damage does a Half Orc add vs a Dwarf? I am really liking the extra saves, balance, and hp of the dwarf, and am willing to take that extra survivability over a little dps, but if the dps difference is large I will go half orc.

Dwarf gives me:
Essentially a free toughness feat (Dwarf gets +4 con better than HOrc, 40 hp at cap)
+4 damage with expensive enhancements
+3 to stunning blow if I go that route through enhancements
+5 to saves vs magic (2 base +3 enhancements)
+4 Balance

Half Orc:
+4 Str = +2 attack, +3 damage (without the expensive dwarf enhancements)
+4 damage through enhancements
+2 free to stunning blow (from +4 str)
+Str damage while raging
Ability to add to power attack damage at the cost of attack
More glancing blow damage? (does anyone take this?)

As I am seeing it, HOrc and dwarf damage enhancements cancel each other, leaving HOrc with +6 str (+3 attack, +4.5 dmg). The +3 attack makes it easier to take tier 3 of the power attack enhancements which add an additional +6 damage. Total damage boost is +10.5.

This seems like a large difference. Is my math/reasoning correct? Will I be able to run in epics with the tier 3 racial power attack, plus the class power attack enhancments?

[Thrudh]

This seems like a large difference.

It is a large difference...

Dwarves need a little something...

Especially for barbarian, half-orcs are MUCH better than dwarves.

[Renvar]

Half Orc is far superior to all the other races in pure DPS min/max builds.

WF brings Con, HP, immunities, and some dps features, but not enough to match the HOrc.

Dwarf brings Con, HP, balance, saves, and some dps features with axes, but not enough to match the HOrc.

Human brings Healing Amp, Human Versatility, extra Feat, and skills to table.

As a result, HOrc might not be your best Tank or your most flexible or survivable build, but it is surely the top Max DPS Race choice.

[Shade]

As I am seeing it, HOrc and dwarf damage enhancements cancel each other, leaving HOrc with +6 str (+3 attack, +4.5 dmg). The +3 attack makes it easier to take tier 3 of the power attack enhancements which add an additional +6 damage. Total damage boost is +10.5.

This seems like a large difference. Is my math/reasoning correct? Will I be able to run in epics with the tier 3 racial power attack, plus the class power attack enhancments?

Well if your using greataxes, dwarf can also take axe attack for +2 to hit.

While theres an orc enhancement called two handed attack, with 2 ranks.. for +2.. You can't actually take it, think they deleted it from the gainable list, but it has some remnants left if you look at the unavaulable list.

So for to hit,, dwarfs not TOO far behind with axes:
halforc:
+2 str = 1
+2 str enhance = 1
+2 str for power rage II = 1
= +3 dwarf cant get
dwarf:
+2 with axes
= +2 orc cant get

So total of +1 over dwarf.
Now if you take that full 3 ranks of orc power attack, your actually -2 to hit behind a dwarf. Course your exact enhancement setup is your call and youd only take what you can handle. And dwarven axe attack can be costly too.

Usually dont recommend over 4 power attacks less you really start to get well geared with things like madstone/yugo pots at least.. If not abishai/berserker/shintao sets also.

[DawnofEntropy]

Culture: Dwarves
Appearence: Dwarves
Architecture: Dwarves
Roleplay Value: ussually Dwarves
Skils: Of course it's Half-Orc. It's an easy for a lot of newbs to get strong fast duh...

Half-Orc are overpowered cause the Devs needed to sell the ugliest race. It's simply profit. Consumerism 101 my friend

[DawnofEntropy]

It is a large difference...

Dwarves need a little something...

Especially for barbarian, half-orcs are MUCH better than dwarves.

Bring this up in the suggestions and flaming and ranting will start I guarentee it. People get defensive over their half-orc.

[Vellrad]

Bring this up in the suggestions and flaming and ranting will start I guarentee it. People get defensive over their half-orc.

I think its because horcs are almost useless as casters, while dwarves are uber casters.
Oh, and I want beard offering +1-+3 stackable DR ^^

[game5551]

I think its because horcs are almost useless as casters, while dwarves are uber casters.
Oh, and I want beard offering +1-+3 stackable DR ^^

That's one tough beard.

[game5551]

Well if your using greataxes, dwarf can also take axe attack for +2 to hit.

While theres an orc enhancement called two handed attack, with 2 ranks.. for +2.. You can't actually take it, think they deleted it from the gainable list, but it has some remnants left if you look at the unavaulable list.

So for to hit,, dwarfs not TOO far behind with axes:
halforc:
+2 str = 1
+2 str enhance = 1
+2 str for power rage II = 1
= +3 dwarf cant get
dwarf:
+2 with axes
= +2 orc cant get

So total of +1 over dwarf.
Now if you take that full 3 ranks of orc power attack, your actually -2 to hit behind a dwarf. Course your exact enhancement setup is your call and youd only take what you can handle. And dwarven axe attack can be costly too.

Usually dont recommend over 4 power attacks less you really start to get well geared with things like madstone/yugo pots at least.. If not abishai/berserker/shintao sets also.

3 tiers of barbarian power attack are available to all Barbs, so if only 4 are realistic that puts the HOrc at +2 damage from power attack, +4.5 from rage for +6.5 total. Not quite as bad.