Crafting skills?

[Vaarsuvius]

The Dragonmarks of Making now grant bonuses (+3 for Least, +3 for Lesser, and +4 for Greater) to crafting skills.

how does this apply?

so with all 3 feats you can add 10 to your crafting level?

Any additional info on this?

[Arovin]

I quickly rolled a Cannith Dragon Marked human and right form the start all three crafting levels where set to 4. I'm sure the other 2 feats will just add to it as well.

I don't see this as being much of a benefit. At least not big enough to use up feats.

[Vaarsuvius]

Thanks for checking it out.

I could see it have some use for a dedicated crafter.

That would mean not having to grind out the last 10 levels on all 3.

Could save a lot of PP and time.

Someone will find a use for it.

[Full_Bleed]

Anyone who's crafted in the 105-125 range knows that this would be HUGE. I can't even imagine the difficulty and cost to get to 140 so that you have a shot at 150 recipes.

It's a shame that both of my crafters are Drow.

Worse, I fear that Artificers will probably get even more bonuses making anything but Dragonmarked Artificer crafters a total waste.

[dkyle]

Wow... this is disappointing. The one thing the devs got completely and totally right in Cannith Crafting, the one invariant they've kept since its release, that Crafting was entirely separate from the character build, is now shot.

10 levels stacking on top of earned CL is absolutely incredible. It would be stupid not to take advantage of it.

It would also be stupid to take those feats on any character that you intend to quest any more than what's needed to level to 9. You'd almost be better of with SF: Swim for all the good the feats would actually do in quests.

Yay Craftingbots. Yay rendering every existing crafter obsolete. Just what the game needed.

So much for the promise that we wouldn't lose what we gained during the beta. Well, I suppose, promise kept, technically. But it's like saying "we won't increase taxes", then instead printing money like crazy, ruining the currency with hyperinflation. Yeah, you didn't take my money. But it's worth a heck of a lot less now. I suppose it was my fault for having faith in not just the letter of the promise, but also the spirit.

And now I have to expect that Artificers will make things even "better". Just sad.

[QuantumFX]

Your crafting levels are considered to be higher for the purposes of recipes. You still start at 0 crafting XP. I have a feeling Artificers will add their artificer levels to their cannith crafting levels.

[dkyle]

Your crafting levels are considered to be higher for the purposes of recipes. You still start at 0 crafting XP. I have a feeling Artificers will add their artificer levels to their cannith crafting levels.

Yeah, starting at 0 XP, and getting bonus levels on top, is exactly why it's such an amazing benefit.

As for adding Artificer level, I hope not. An additional 20 levels would be just insane. Going from 70 to 100 just for making a crafting bot? Or 120 to 150? Or 170 to 200?

10 is incredible enough.

It should be nothing. Bad idea...

[Vaarsuvius]

which is why i parked my crafter at 20 waiting to find out what class would be announced.

[QuantumFX]

Yeah, starting at 0 XP, and getting bonus levels on top, is exactly why it's such an amazing benefit.

Not really. This would be a significant benefit if you could ultimately spec back out of the dragonmarks. The only way you would be able to spec back out and not burn out all your higher level recipes is to take advantage of the reincarnation reset bug.

As for adding Artificer level, I hope not. An additional 20 levels would be just insane. Going from 70 to 100 just for making a crafting bot? Or 120 to 150? Or 170 to 200?

Only thing working against your theory is that it’s a lot of work just for one of the many useless dragonmarks in DDO.

[Narmolanya]

I never saw anything saying crafting xp is lost from doing a TR (I have never done a TR on my crafter). Could someone confirm this is still the case?

If I can TR my WF sorc crafter and keep the xp this is to powerful to pass up.

[dkyle]

Not really. This would be a significant benefit if you could ultimately spec back out of the dragonmarks. The only way you would be able to spec back out and not burn out all your higher level recipes is to take advantage of the reincarnation reset bug.

Why would you need to spec out of them?

Make a crafting bot (likely Human Artificer), win. Why bother questing with that character ever again? Who cares if it's completely gimped due to wasting feats on things that don't help it actually quest.

People are willing to make Hagglebards now; the case for Craftingbots will be a enormously stronger.

Only thing working against your wishful thinking is that it’s a lot of work just for one of the many useless dragonmarks in DDO.

It's no longer useless. It's amazingly useful, for crafting.

The amount of grind 170 to 200 will take, at the current XP progression, should be enormous. Well beyond what it takes to level a 20 to cap.

And even if Artificer doesn't provide that much bonus, leveling to 9 is laughably easy, and a +10 from the dragonmarks is still a tremendous benefit.

I never saw anything saying crafting xp is lost from doing a TR (I have never done a TR on my crafter). Could someone confirm this is still the case?

Crafting XP has never been lost on TR.

If I can TR my WF sorc crafter and keep the xp this is to powerful to pass up.

That's great for you, but seeing as my my Crafter is my Barbarian with Epic gear, since in the original release, all crafting was BtC and he had the most need for crafted items...

[dTarkanan]

I too feel that the crafting bonus from the dragonmarks is wholly unfair, especially to those who ground out crafting on their main toons. The 10 point advantage is gigantic at high levels and it basically renders any nonhuman crafter far more expensive to maintain. If artificers get further bonuses, even more so.

[QuantumFX]

Quick preface. Just reread my first post and found a cut-n-paste error. Edited for clarity!

Why would you need to spec out of them?

Make a crafting bot (likely Human Artificer), win. Why bother questing with that character ever again? Who cares if it's completely gimped due to wasting feats on things that don't help it actually quest.

People are willing to make Hagglebards now; the case for Craftingbots will be a enormously stronger.

Why bother creating an artificer based craftingbot when you will reach the cap anyway? Just because the crafting levels are still going up doesn’t mean they will go on forever. If anything, once Turbine reaches their level cap and the basic enchantments are covered the system will go "wider" with more recipes for leveling.

It's no longer useless. It's amazingly useful, for crafting.

My point still stands: They wouldn’t do something this involved just for a dragonmark that’s been completed for years. There has to be some other crafting level adjustments coming our way and the the most obvious is artificer.

The amount of grind 170 to 200 will take, at the current XP progression, should be enormous. Well beyond what it takes to level a 20 to cap.

31,667 XP for a single crafting level? That’s more than enough XP to span from levels 131-150. (1,900,000/3 = 633,333 per school /20 31,667Xp for a single level.)

And even if Artificer doesn't provide that much bonus, leveling to 9 is laughably easy, and a +10 from the dragonmarks is still a tremendous benefit.

But one that eventually offers less return as you make your way to cap. (Unless the planned Cannith Dragonmarked Heir PrE is awesome.)

[Kinerd]

Terrible change.

[Full_Bleed]

This same discussion is going on in the Lam Crafting thread... and rather than rehash everything that has been said here, I think one thing bears repeating here:

Honestly, I think the ship has sailed on this. So lets deal with it constructively.

Crafting IS now going to have a preferred RACE (Human for Dragon Mark of Making) and CLASS (Artificer.) To be one of the best and most efficient crafters you will have to sacrifice Action Points and Feats.


Given that, I urge those crafters who know this is going to put them at a severe disadvantage in their pursuit of Mastercraftsmanship to get on board with the suggestion I outlined earlier. It's likely as close to a win/win scenario as we're going to get for Turbine and those of us who will be most affected by this change:


Dear Turbine,

Since the idea of having a preferred Race and Class for crafting is now going to be a part of the game (something we were originally led to believe otherwise), why not give people who buy an Artificer a 1 time option to transfer their crafting XP from another character on the account to the Artificer upon creation?

Turbine would stand to sell a lot more of the Artificer class if they did this and people who have committed so much time, effort, and money (both real and virtual) to crafting on a suboptimal character will be given a way to leverage that hard work and commitment more reasonably.

This could be considered another bonus of the Artificer Class and an olive branch to the existing crafters.

Signed,

Master Crafter in the Making


I don't see how Turbine loses ANYTHING by doing this. And showing a little compassion to the people who have embraced your crafting system the most would be an act of good faith.

[Jaid314]

*shrug* i've been working on my crafting, and i can't say i find this particularly problematic. i don't intend to make a crafter that sacrifices other usefulness for superior crafting ability. sure, it will take me longer to reach the pinnacle of crafting. so what? it's not like i *need* crafting, or like it even particularly benefits me to go beyond 100. sure, it can help the guild, but then again... so can knowing someone else who has a crafting bot. and going with the "i know a guy who can craft whatever is needed" strategy has the added benefit that i don't need to gimp my own character in order to craft.

and in any case, it has fairly consistently been getting cheaper to craft anyways. when it first came out, there was no exp for deconstructing. crafting exp has also been adjusted to be easier since it started. in this next patch, there will be consumables that are cheap to craft from all we've heard, but which will likely still give decent exp. as time goes on, i fully expect to see even more recipes added, and for it to continue to get cheaper to level up crafting due to a greater variety of recipes.

and in the meanwhile, the advantage to crafting early has also been demonstrated: those who had high crafting levels before the new ingredients were added got to make a bunch of greater bane, holy burst, and other shards without paying the new (and much greater) cost. various other things have been removed that once were available.

nobody forced anyone to power-level their crafters, and it's right there in perfectly clear writing every time you enter the crafting hall: crafting is subject to change.

the people who have huge amounts of crafting exp right now are benefitted by having, basically, either a free character slot, or 3 free feats, vs those who might plan to use a crafting bot character. i bet if you offered the strongest characters in the game a few free feats in exchange for getting all that crafting exp, you'd see a lot of people desperately crafting away in the crafting hall. certainly, if i had any way of getting my rogues or sorcerer (or heck, even bard) to have 3 more feats, i'd be all over it. even on my characters with lots of feats (such as my fighter), i'd love to be able to get 3 more feats. frankly, i just don't see the problem.

[noinfo]

Why would you need to spec out of them?

Make a crafting bot (likely Human Artificer), win. Why bother questing with that character ever again? Who cares if it's completely gimped due to wasting feats on things that don't help it actually quest.

People are willing to make Hagglebards now; the case for Craftingbots will be a enormously stronger.



It's no longer useless. It's amazingly useful, for crafting.

The amount of grind 170 to 200 will take, at the current XP progression, should be enormous. Well beyond what it takes to level a 20 to cap.

And even if Artificer doesn't provide that much bonus, leveling to 9 is laughably easy, and a +10 from the dragonmarks is still a tremendous benefit.



Crafting XP has never been lost on TR.



That's great for you, but seeing as my my Crafter is my Barbarian with Epic gear, since in the original release, all crafting was BtC and he had the most need for crafted items...

Exactly my case with my crafter as well. This can be still be fixed by making crafting account based instead of character based. Your total crafting level is initially equal to the combined xp of all your toons and then is added to directly after replacing individual crafting levels. If you have a character with those dragon marks then it gains its benefit on top of your levels when crafting on that toon (so you must log to it). If they decide artificer levels add then same thing there. This way no one loses out and Turbine may benefit further from people buying a character slot and class for their crafting mules

[markhoge]

I like both of these ideas:

Since the idea of having a preferred Race and Class for crafting is now going to be a part of the game (something we were originally led to believe otherwise), why not give people who buy an Artificer a 1 time option to transfer their crafting XP from another character on the account to the Artificer upon creation?

Turbine would stand to sell a lot more of the Artificer class if they did this and people who have committed so much time, effort, and money (both real and virtual) to crafting on a suboptimal character will be given a way to leverage that hard work and commitment more reasonably.

This could be considered another bonus of the Artificer Class and an olive branch to the existing crafters.

Although I believe I like this one more:

Exactly my case with my crafter as well. This can be still be fixed by making crafting account based instead of character based. Your total crafting level is initially equal to the combined xp of all your toons and then is added to directly after replacing individual crafting levels. If you have a character with those dragon marks then it gains its benefit on top of your levels when crafting on that toon (so you must log to it). If they decide artificer levels add then same thing there. This way no one loses out and Turbine may benefit further from people buying a character slot and class for their crafting mules