Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[BOgre]

They didn't change the rules though. They have always stated that VIP players will have access to things Premium and F2P players do not. The ability to open quests on Elite is one of them and has been for a while. This has been a feature of being a VIP player that Premium players did not get.

You gambled on Turbine never making VIP worthwhile and lost the bet. Others decided that sooner or later Turbine would add an incentive to VIP.

Not true. They never stated that VIPs would have access to things Premium and f2p did not. They stated exactly the opposite in fact. The few minor perks of subscription (login, guild charter, idle timer, and buyback) are not game mechanics, so not part of this discussion.
The ability to open quests on Elite is functioning as a VIP perk because the premium option is poorly priced, and isn't account wide. This is wrong, but since the benefit is so small, and the perceived thrown-bone for VIPs so great, the debate about that particular disparity has mostly died down. By adding Bravery ON TOP of Elite open, that gulf has widened, entering into the realm of core game mechanics. This is not minimal.

As for gambling, I find it repulsive that a company would make it's product pricing a gamble for it's customers (IF that's what it's doing, which I think it's not). Payment plans shouldn't be a gamble, they should be a matter of best fit for the individual.

[xberto]

Finally VIP get a bit of a boost.

Like many have said, just get a guildie with VIP to open it for you.

Yea! I like the VIP boost. The rest of you should pay your $.33/day.

[Mercules]

5. What is a DDO VIP?

Sounds important, right? Well, it is. DDO VIPs are players who want unlimited access to all of the content DDO has to offer. This newly optional subscription program also allows its gamers to enjoy a number of other exclusive benefits, such as a monthly grant of Turbine Points, priority access to servers, the ability to play all classes and races, additional character slots, a shared bank slot, and much more. The cost of becoming a DDO VIP is only $14.99 per month. Learn more by clicking here!

Items in red emphasized by myself.

[BOgre]

Items in red emphasized by myself.

As I've said many times, the exclusive's are not game mechanics. Follow the link at the end of that paragraph and do an ACTUAL comparison...

Plus that particular paragraph has come under fire before, re: the ability to play all classes and races, which is inaccurate and misleading. You have follow the link to see a more detailed comparo.

[Mercules]

As I've said many times, the exclusive's are not game mechanics. Follow the link at the end of that paragraph and do an ACTUAL comparison...

Plus that particular paragraph has come under fire before, re: the ability to play all classes and races, which is inaccurate and misleading. You have follow the link to see a more detailed comparo.

You mean this part?

Base Quest Difficulty Options
VIP - Casual, Normal, Hard, Elite: Free
Premium - Casual, Normal: Free Hard, Elite: Earn or buy
Free to Play - Casual, Normal: Free Hard, Elite: Earn or buy

[theboatman]

As I've said many times, the exclusive's are not game mechanics. Follow the link at the end of that paragraph and do an ACTUAL comparison...

Plus that particular paragraph has come under fire before, re: the ability to play all classes and races, which is inaccurate and misleading. You have follow the link to see a more detailed comparo.

Restating something many times does not make it true.

You have access to the game mechanic. You may not like the particular access method, but you do have access.

This arguement is similar to complaining you have to pay your mechanic for auto repair, when comparing your situation to the other guy that has his repair/maintenance as part of his warranty or lease.

[BOgre]

You mean this part?

Base Quest Difficulty Options
VIP - Casual, Normal, Hard, Elite: Free
Premium - Casual, Normal: Free Hard, Elite: Earn or buy
Free to Play - Casual, Normal: Free Hard, Elite: Earn or buy

No, and AGAIN, I've already touched on that point (post 342). You're stubbornly holding your ground here, and I don't blame you really, since it seems you went VIP solely for the 'perks'. Not all of us made our decision based on that paragraph. Some of us understood the payment options to mean what I've already stated above a few times, and some of us made our decision based on the best solution for our playstyle and situation.
And for the last time, we're talking about CORE GAME MECHANICS, i.e. XP gains. I think I've said all I can productively say...

[Truga]

No, and AGAIN, I've already touched on that point (post 342). You're stubbornly holding your ground here, and I don't blame you really, since it seems you went VIP solely for the 'perks'. Not all of us made our decision based on that paragraph. Some of us understood the payment options to mean what I've already stated above a few times, and some of us made our decision based on the best solution for our playstyle and situation.
And for the last time, we're talking about CORE GAME MECHANICS, i.e. XP gains. I think I've said all I can productively say...

Opening elite earns more exp per quest than opening normal. VIPs have always had this. You're only noticing this now why?

[Aaxeyu]

What we do get is that we can open Elite. You Premiums want that too? Then pay up.

Yea, that's what we are asking for. An option to make a one time purchase to be able to open all quests on elite.
If you are saying that this would be bad, then you are saying that Turbines buissness model is bad, and that is obviously not true.

We are not asking for handouts. When we say that premiums whould be abel to open things on elite we don't mean that we should get that for free.

Everything that VIPs get should be availible in the store. The "perk" of being a VIP is that you don't have to buy it.

This is such a basic concept that it really baffles me to see how many people are failing to understand it.

[BOgre]

Restating something many times does not make it true.

You have access to the game mechanic. You may not like the particular access method, but you do have access.

This arguement is similar to complaining you have to pay your mechanic for auto repair, when comparing your situation to the other guy that has his repair/maintenance as part of his warranty or lease.

dude, I'm having trouble keeping up with which side of the fence you're on from one page to the next... nvm.

As to the mechanic analogy, if the guy got his warranty as part of his initial purchase or monthly payment, then he deserves it. If I bring my car in to the dealer and buy a service plan outright, I should get the same maintenance.

[Valindria]

I own all packs, banks, extra slots, races/classes, etc. I've read way too many posts in this thread. I think VIP was a terrible naming convention because now everyone thinks they are very important when they are really just subscribers. There are still plenty of perks if you choose to go "Subscriber". I also do not see why everyone is so up in arms about the potential of people who bought this game to open on hard other than it makes you feel less special.

One solution that comes to mind is to grant opening as a favor reward for some very top end cumulative favor (currently 3000+). Players who have this amount of total favor, had to have already done a vast majority of the game on elite and have bought almost every pack available. That sounds prety fair to me.

If they do it with a store bought option and as a high end favor unlock then it would force people to spend money on it as F2p would not have enough packs to get the total favor. Or if they made it "X amount of favor in all factions" which would force high end play and possibly multiple adventure pack sales. That would get past the Subscribers arugment of F2P not supporting the game like they do. If they offer something to everyone cool. If not, oh well.

[Truga]

This is basically the same as LotRO's "offline xp" thingy. You know, the thing where you get more exp for a set duration when you log on after a day offline.

VIPs get it, premiums don't. Do you see people whining about it there? No. VIPs paid for it, it's a VIP perk. If you want to open elite, pay for VIP, it's a VIP perk.

It really is that simple, I don't get the outrage.

And again, I'm a premium member, and I'd love to open elite as premium, but I also think a whole lot of people that are now VIPs just for elite opening would drop to premium then, and use their accumulated "free" TP to buy all the content and never pay a penny again.

[Kwyjibo]

...

Everything that VIPs get should be availible in the store. The "perk" of being a VIP is that you don't have to buy it.

...

Don't have to buy what exactly? I'm pretty sure I PAY subscription fees...So please explain what it is I'm not buying?

Did I miss something?

[gloopygloop]

Opening elite earns more exp per quest than opening normal. VIPs have always had this. You're only noticing this now why?

That's not actually correct.

You get no more XP for running E/H/N than you get for N/H/E. You actually get LESS XP for running Elite first in many circumstances (currently).

[theboatman]

Yea, that's what we are asking for. An option to make a one time purchase to be able to open all quests on elite.
If you are saying that this would be bad, then you are saying that Turbines buissness model is bad, and that is obviously not true.

We are not asking for handouts. When we say that premiums whould be abel to open things on elite we don't mean that we should get that for free.

Everything that VIPs get should be availible in the store. The "perk" of being a VIP is that you don't have to buy it.

This is such a basic concept that it really baffles me to see how many people are failing to understand it.

Again, everything that vip's get is available in the store. You may not like the scope or nature of the store purchase, but it is available.

I'm not saying that a one time purchase for elite open is bad, I'm saying that it is also unreasonable. If I want Elite opening for all my characters, I will either take the time to level a second account, or pay for a subscription. When I am done needing the elite opening, I can go back to premium.

Personally I wont need the Bravery bonus for most of my characters. It seems that the intent was to provide incentive to run more challenging quests, to, you know, challenge parties. Not expedite leveling.

The suggestion I made about a character based Hard unlock good until favor was reset had in mind a 36 point TR, where having the unlock would be conducive to faster leveling while soloing. It's not the best tier of Elite first, but again, I can subscribe if it's that important to me.

It really is troublesome the idea that 'purchasing' rather than 'renting' entitles you to the same perks. Most would be well reminded that a subscriber loses all subscription perks upon relinquishing their subscription. They have to purchase their shared bank/content/excess character slots/etc if they want to continue enjoying their playstyle after unsubscribing.

Asking for a permanent unlock of any sort in the store is asking for all of the perks with none of the costs associated with them.

[Aaxeyu]

Don't have to buy what exactly? I'm pretty sure I PAY subscription fees...So please explain what it is I'm not buying?

Did I miss something?

Buying vs renting, look it up.

[Mercules]

dude, I'm having trouble keeping up with which side of the fence you're on from one page to the next... nvm.

As to the mechanic analogy, if the guy got his warranty as part of his initial purchase or monthly payment, then he deserves it. If I bring my car in to the dealer and buy a service plan outright, I should get the same maintenance.

Well, you can buy a service plan. In this case it is 95TP per quest you want to be able to open on Elite. I get it for my $9.99 a month. Two different plans, two different manners of accomplishing the same thing. It's like I am paying for a year of monthly oil changes and you are paying per quart of oil used and for the filter. I get a discount because I signed up for the whole year.

[Truga]

That's not actually correct.

You get no more XP for running E/H/N than you get for N/H/E. You actually get LESS XP for running Elite first in many circumstances (currently).

No you don't.

You get the most exp by running Ex12, then CNH for first time bonuses. I do this with many quests in harbour (especially ringleader), because it's worth the effort, and elite doesn't really make them hard if you know them inside-out and have an AoE ability (burning hands, for example).

N/H/E and E/H/N do in fact give the exact same amount of exp though.

[Aaxeyu]

It really is troublesome the idea that 'purchasing' rather than 'renting' entitles you to the same perks. Most would be well reminded that a subscriber loses all subscription perks upon relinquishing their subscription. They have to purchase their shared bank/content/excess character slots/etc if they want to continue enjoying their playstyle after unsubscribing.

That's the whole point of renting VS buying. You can chose to pay a large sum to get permant access or you can pay a small sum to get temporary access.
One should not be excluded from certain aspects of the game just because the choice of buying or renting, because then it's not "buying or renting" any more.

Asking for a permanent unlock of any sort in the store is asking for all of the perks with none of the costs associated with them.

No the cost is there, in TP. That's the whole point.


Again, I am just baffled.

[Truga]

That's the whole point of renting VS buying. You can chose to pay a large sum to get permant access or you can pay a msall sum to get temporary access.

You still have access to everything though? Or was there something taken away? There is some extra bonus that VIPs might get now, but why do you care, they didn't take anything away from you personally.

Why is it that some premium dudes want all the perks of being premium (spending money whenever they want), without the cons of being premium (unable to open elites).