Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[Monkey_Archer]

So as I understand it, it is impossible for F2P/Premium player to get the bravery bonus, unless a VIP unlocks hard/elite for them (or they buy a hard/elite unlock from the DDO store). I know there has to be benefits to VIP, but this seems more like a pretty massive penalty for f2p/premium. The amount of xp lost for doing Nx6/H/E vs Ex6/H/N with bravery bonus is nearly the equivalent of running the quest an additional 5 times with the way repeat penalties stack up (assuming those haven't changed)

As an experienced player who TRs and solos alot (and have been advocating for this kind of bonus) it bothers me that I wont be able to take advantage of it as of September when I take the premium plunge .

I'm going to make 2 suggestions (in a desperate attempt to avoid constantly bugging my guildies for elite openers through what could be endless TRs)

• 1) Allow the bravery bonus to kick in even if you've run the quest on normal first. That is, allow F2P/Premium players to run N/H/Ex6 and start stacking the bravery bonus as long as they don't run normal after starting the elite runs. This still wouldn't be nearly as much xp as running Ex6/H/N (you loose the +20% first ever on elite bonus, and get extra repeat penalties) but at least there would be some bonus, and incentive to run elite multiple times.
• 
  
• 2) Sell permanent elite unlocks in the DDO store. Normally I wouldn't recommend something like this, but its really a win-win. There is absolutely no way I will ever buy individual hard/elite unlocks with the amount of quests I run (especially when i could just bug a guildy or put an LFM up for an elite opener) However, as i do prefer to solo sometimes I would be willing to pay (probably up to 2000 points) for a permanent Elite unlock.

[Aaxeyu]

[*]2) Sell permanent elite unlocks in the DDO store. Normally I wouldn't recommend something like this, but its really a win-win. There is absolutely no way I will ever buy individual hard/elite unlocks with the amount of quests I run (especially when i could just bug a guildy or put an LFM up for an elite opener) However, as i do prefer to solo sometimes I would be willing to pay (probably up to 2000 points) for a permanent Elite unlock.[/LIST]

Yea, that is what they should do. It will kinda screw premium players otherwise.

[Sierim]

Even as a premium player myself, I wouldn't recommend allowing a permanent unlock of hard/elite difficulties via the DDOStore. VIP needs some things to make it a worthwhile option when competing with Premium, and and such an addition to those benefits (without taking anything away from F2P or Premium, I might add) like the bravery bonus is, IMO, a good thing.

[Samir_Bennal]

Personally I see the majority affected by this will be those without guilds. Most guilds, especially those that actually are about helping guild mates, will have at least one member that will have most unlocked on elite so they can help those that don't. I try to help if I have elite available.

[Grosbeak07]

Finally VIP get a bit of a boost.

Like many have said, just get a guildie with VIP to open it for you.

[Bladedge]

Even as a premium player myself, I wouldn't recommend allowing a permanent unlock of hard/elite difficulties via the DDOStore. VIP needs some things to make it a worthwhile option when competing with Premium, and and such an addition to those benefits (without taking anything away from F2P or Premium, I might add) like the bravery bonus is, IMO, a good thing.

Disagree Iam willing to Pay $20-$30 to have permanent unlock of hard and elite on both my premium accounts that have all the quest packs, races and classes unlocked.

[Monkey_Archer]

Even as a premium player myself, I wouldn't recommend allowing a permanent unlock of hard/elite difficulties via the DDOStore. VIP needs some things to make it a worthwhile option when competing with Premium, and and such an addition to those benefits (without taking anything away from F2P or Premium, I might add) like the bravery bonus is, IMO, a good thing.

This feature really has very little to do with being F2P/Premium vs VIP. Finding one friend/guildy/pugger that can open elite for you is rarely an issue. The problem I have is not that this will inconvenience me as a premium player, but rather that it completely eliminates my ability to solo when I want to.
As an experienced/multi TR/zerger (whatever you want to call me) there are just certain quests that are better for me to solo rather then pug. I have nothing against bringing newer player along, explaining what needs to be explained, running backwards to pick up stones, taking neg 10p, etc... I do this frequently, and expect it every time i put an LFM up... but there are just some quests in the game that I like to run that infuriate newer players to no ends... and its just better for all involved that I be allowed to solo them (and pay turbine $20 to do so )

[redraider]

The only thing keeping me VIP these days is the Elite unlock. Seriously.

Remove it and all VIP's should go Premium.

I am OK either way.

I just hit a one month sub when a pack is coming out to eliminate the premium wait, and all the game is mine.

[oradafu]

VIP accounts finally get a nice perk and people want to take it away from them.

[Postumus]

So as I understand it, it is impossible for F2P/Premium player to get the bravery bonus, unless a VIP unlocks hard/elite for them (or they buy a hard/elite unlock from the DDO store). I know there has to be benefits to VIP, but this seems more like a pretty massive penalty for f2p/premium.

How is adding a perk to for VIPs a penalty for f2p?

[Postumus]

This feature really has very little to do with being F2P/Premium vs VIP. Finding one friend/guildy/pugger that can open elite for you is rarely an issue. The problem I have is not that this will inconvenience me as a premium player, but rather that it completely eliminates my ability to solo when I want to.

Wait... don't you have the ability to solo now? I'm not seeing how non-VIPs not getting a new perk changes anything for them.

[Phidius]

I really don't care myself - I'm more excited about the boost to first-time bonuses on Hard and Elite.

The whole "stacking XP bonuses as long as you follow the accountant's rules" doesn't appeal to me. I prefer the simple approach myself.

Speaking of simple approaches, it sounds like Turbine is acknowledging that the XP requirements pre-U11 weren't cutting it. Did anyone at Turbine give a reason for not simply boosting the XP for less-run quests/optionals?

[sephiroth1084]

This feature really has very little to do with being F2P/Premium vs VIP. Finding one friend/guildy/pugger that can open elite for you is rarely an issue. The problem I have is not that this will inconvenience me as a premium player, but rather that it completely eliminates my ability to solo when I want to.
As an experienced/multi TR/zerger (whatever you want to call me) there are just certain quests that are better for me to solo rather then pug. I have nothing against bringing newer player along, explaining what needs to be explained, running backwards to pick up stones, taking neg 10p, etc... I do this frequently, and expect it every time i put an LFM up... but there are just some quests in the game that I like to run that infuriate newer players to no ends... and its just better for all involved that I be allowed to solo them (and pay turbine $20 to do so )

I don't see it that way. You were soloing before, running stuff N, H, E, right? You can still do that, but without the big new big boost to XP. This is a bonus for VIPs and anyone that can get an elite opener. I see nothing at all wrong with that.

Bonus to VIP: GOOD!
Encourage grouping (a little bit): GOOD!

Where's the problem?

[Geonis]

The difference will be as follows.

Before the change-

Run N,H,E of quest A
Run N,H,E of quest B
Run N,H,E of quest C

Now-

Run N of quest A,B,C
Run H of quest A,B,C
Run E of quest A,B,C

[Monkey_Archer]

Wait... don't you have the ability to solo now? I'm not seeing how non-VIPs not getting a new perk changes anything for them.

Its like saying to someone: "I'll give you $100 if you want it, but if you eat broccoli you get nothing."

Of course I want a free $100... but maybe I like broccoli... but I want that $100 too ...

Sure, technically I can still eat broccoli if I want to, but every time I do I loose $100

[Alexandryte]

The new bravery boost merely wont effect you as often as a solo f2p/premium.

Keep in mind they did leave things more or less the same, save hard and elite first time bonuses went up to 40% and 80% respectively from 25% and 50% previously.

As such even without bravery, that's a NET GAIN for all players, and an even greater NET GAIN for those willing to party (or at the very least find someone to unlock a higher difficulty).

It is a slight perk to maintaining VIP status. Irregardless, there is enough exp in the game to easily cap, and enough exp (to bearably) cap a (patient) TR2+. All this does is makes it even more tolerable for TR's and a boon to all players, encouraging quest diversity.

There should be a bonus for attempting to run something where you would be in over your head (aka running something on higher than normal the first time). The inability of F2P/premium to initially dive right in (to a higher difficulty) could be seen as a safety guard for new players. A player who dies quite often in their first few quests in a new game is one that is not as likely to stick around. Making unlocks be a progression seems the most logical way to keep players safe as they explore.


Long story short: There is no real penalty when someone gives more benefits to the player base as a whole. You lost nothing that you didn't have already but have only gained.

[Stormanne]

Its like saying to someone: "I'll give you $100 if you want it, but if you eat broccoli you get nothing."

Of course I want a free $100... but maybe I like broccoli... but I want that $100 too ...

Sure, technically I can still eat broccoli if I want to, but every time I do I loose $100

You're not losing anything. You're just not getting the "bonus". And a bonus is just that. You'll still get everything you got before, you just won't get the extra stuff without signing back up for VIP...which is as it should be.

[Zerenety]

But, why is people talking about running Normal difficultie at all when farming? Didn't one normal completion ruin your bravery chain?

Maybe i misunderstood. Does the bravery chain reset when doing another quest? You can't run one quest, chain up your bravery, and benefit from it from other quests?

hmmh..

[Isolani]

The difference will be as follows.

Before the change-

Run N,H,E of quest A
Run N,H,E of quest B
Run N,H,E of quest C

Now-

Run N of quest A,B,C
Run H of quest A,B,C
Run E of quest A,B,C

You only get the elite streak bonus if your first run of a quest is on elite, and the streak bonus only applies to that first run. The first run is the only one that counts for or against the streak, you can run the same quest on normal and hard as many times as you want after you ran it the first time on elite. If your first run of a quest is on normal, you can't get a bravery bonus from it by running hard/elite later. It's all about the first time you run a quest now, it has to be on hard or elite the first time if you want any bravery bonus. At least, this is my understanding of how it works from reading the various threads about it.

So now, you should be doing something like ENH for each quest, always opening on elite the first time to keep your streak going. With a 5 stack bonus going, each first run you do on elite will be at +150% xp...80% elite bonus, 20% bravery bonus for 1st run being on elite, and 50% bonus from elite streak.

[Aaxeyu]

You're not losing anything. You're just not getting the "bonus". And a bonus is just that. You'll still get everything you got before, you just won't get the extra stuff without signing back up for VIP...which is as it should be.

Not getting the bonus is losing something.