Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[Bilger]

That's not really the case.
The "premium side" of the argument are saying that we should be able to buy everything that VIP gets.
We are also saying that the current way to unlock elite costs too much (not that it should be free).

Again ignored on the part where said there was multiple ways to open and if work it right will cost you nothing.

If pay for it all thats your choice to do it expensive or not.

There is always a way as premium to get it free via friends grinding tp and so on.

Premium chose there path and can pay if want or find a free way thats the differance.

I don't see where the it cost too much argument stands any ground when you can get for free with tp grinding or friends.

Remeber premium made the choice to be premium not the VIP's who rent the game for everything monthly.

[Mercules]

Do you have any references that actually provide evidence for that or is that something that you just believe in?

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/82128/page/2

[BOgre]

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/82128/page/2

This would be a great reference IF:
1) it didn't come from TTH, the very LEAST accurate source of mmo related info known to man, AND
2) it wasn't a year and a half old, representing FEB 2010 numbers, which really only means 'shortly after f2p/microtransaction model release'.

[Hokiewa]

wow, you consistently feel the need to bash my posts and twist my meaning. Did I wrong you in a past life or something? And why the vitriol ('never types, is incapable of typing')? I told myself earlier on that I'd not respond to your bashing me, but geez, enough already. Stick to the argument, and quit telling me to post LFMs for elite openers. We've already established that that isn't the issue.

I'm simply stating opinion and attempting to correct assumptions. I have not made one single personal attack at you nor am I "bashing" your posts. I think telling someone to "quit" telling someone else something is a little more offensive.

Then of course you proceed to do the exact same thing you are accusing me of in regards to the TTH article. Amusing!

[muny21]

after reading every post in this thread it was pretty entertaining. to watch page after page of vips feeling they deserve more and premiums say they deserve this perk too.

what people are failing to understand is that there are two extremes to both sides. you have the premium that bought all content plus armor kits, xp pots, hair dye and etc. which adds up substantial more then vips that have had subs for 2-3 years. it is simple math. i know a lot of people are bad at math. but then you have the premium that just bought the smallest point pack to be premium.

on the other hand, you have vips that have subs and buy points regularly for cakes, xp pots, armor kits and etc. spending just as much if not more than a premium who owns all and makes same "extra" purchases. then you have the vip that only pays $10 a month and nothing more. paying far less than a premium that owns all.

therefore, how can you logically state that based on monetary value, since this seems to be the theme of this thread, that such low end vips deserve more perks than high end premiums? makes no sense and shame on turbine for creating this rift between players.

instead of going in circles like this thread, i propose the fairest of all compromises that will put an end to this bickering. why not let premium members that own all the packs gain the ability to open elite as well. it can be like the completionist feat. you keep it as long as you own all packs and lose it as soon as a new pack comes out and have to buy the new pack. that is securing payments from premiums that want that perk just like it is securing payments from vips. the reason i say just the packs unlock this feat is because they are quest based and if you own all the quest you should be able to open them on any difficulty you want. simple as that.

[Aaxeyu]

Again ignored on the part where said there was multiple ways to open and if work it right will cost you nothing.

If pay for it all thats your choice to do it expensive or not.

There is always a way as premium to get it free via friends grinding tp and so on.

Premium chose there path and can pay if want or find a free way thats the differance.

I don't see where the it cost too much argument stands any ground when you can get for free with tp grinding or friends.

Remeber premium made the choice to be premium not the VIP's who rent the game for everything monthly.

Getting the cost down to 0 is not the issue here.

I will try to make this as clear as possible:
There is a demand of a reasonably priced and simple way for premium players to open quests on elite.
Turbine can meet that demand and make money.

Not everyone want to TP grind. TBH I think very few people actually does it. Personally it's the most boring way imaginable to spend my precious game time.

And again, just because you can get around the problem by finding someone who can open doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
Why is the game better without the option to get a reasonably priced elite unlock?

[BOgre]

more nonesense

Really? that's what you gleaned from that post? I was attempting to point out that the TTH article reference was outdated and inaccurate (if only based on its date, but also factoring in the source, if one was of a mind). I don't see how that bashes Mercules in any way. It merely sheds light on the argument...

Yup, going back to ignoring you. It was a happier time

[Bilger]

Getting the cost down to 0 is not the issue here.

I will try to make this as clear as possible:
There is a demand of a reasonably priced and simple way for premium players to open quests on elite.
Turbine can meet that demand and make money.

Not everyone want to TP grind. TBH I think very few people actually does it. Personally it's the most boring way imaginable to spend my precious game time.

And again, just because you can get around the problem by finding someone who can open doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
Why is the game better without the option to get a reasonably priced elite unlock?

Simple premium chose there route and can make it as expensive or as cheap as they want it.

It isn't the VIP's nor turbines fault that they are to lazy to gtrind or find an opener if ya want you are going to have to pay for it.

It's a simple concept and may seem excessively expensive to you but turbine is in business to make money.

So if this boost is that important to them they will pay or grind for or find an opener.

It is how it's been since f2p and premium existed and won't change.

It might be nice of turbine to drop price a lil but they want to make money and people are going to pay for it and they know it. If someone wants it they will get it one way or another and that's what turbine realizes.

It may be expensive and would be nice of turbine to lower cost a lil but they are a businees.

[Aaxeyu]

It's a simple concept and may seem excessively expensive to you but turbine is in business to make money.

They will make more money by lowering the price so that more people will buy it.

Many premiums would pay 2k+ TP to be able to open everything on elite, but few, if any, will pay 2k+ TP on the current elite unlock items.

[sephiroth1084]

Preeetty sure there's no walmart in Finland...

Why not? There's a 7/11 in Denmark.

[gloopygloop]

It isn't the VIP's nor turbines fault that they are to lazy to gtrind or find an opener if ya want you are going to have to pay for it.

Why even make this an argument about whose "fault" something is? Is that what you really care about? Is it so important for you to assign blame?

Why not just recognize that selling Hard or Elite opening as an account option is another way that Turbine can make money on this game without going down the Pay-to-win path that they've recently been treading with essences, beholder crystals and similar items in the DDO store?

You say, "if ya want you are going to have to pay for it" but that's EXACTLY what the premium folks here are asking for - and opportunity to BUY something from the DDO store just like account banks and premium races/classes.

[Bilger]

They will make more money by lowering the price so that more people will buy it.

Many premiums would pay 2k+ TP to be able to open everything on elite, but few, if any, will pay 2k+ TP on the current elite unlock items.

Hmm again picking and choosing what say to remark at I also in same post it would be nice for them to lower cost.

A good idea maybe then is something like they have for other things. No idea if suggested before but a permanent elite open for as you state 2k + tp.

That might be viable but premium shouldn't just expect what vip gets for free or extremely cheap turbine is a business and wants to make money.

Seriously though people if really want something will pay for it nm what me, you, or anyone says they still will make money.

None of us have the numbers to say that the way is now will make less than any idea anyone can come up with.

People will pay when they really want something.

We need numbers that neither of us have to say otherwise.

[TheHolyDarkness]

All I know is that TRing remains boring. Too boring for me to buy TR Tokens and +2 Supreme Tomes.

I was momentarily tricked into thinking I'd TR rather than form alts. Eh. Nevermind.

PUG dynamics have taken a shot s'all I know. Just look at the flames going around.

After spending $350+ over time (been playing 2 years now), I think my "subscription" is still active as a premium player. I am disappointed of this segregating implementation.

So many flames.
~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[Bilger]

Why even make this an argument about whose "fault" something is? Is that what you really care about? Is it so important for you to assign blame?

Why not just recognize that selling Hard or Elite opening as an account option is another way that Turbine can make money on this game without going down the Pay-to-win path that they've recently been treading with essences, beholder crystals and similar items in the DDO store?

You say, "if ya want you are going to have to pay for it" but that's EXACTLY what the premium folks here are asking for - and opportunity to BUY something from the DDO store just like account banks and premium races/classes.

What's your argument here? I stated wasn't someones fault because they want money.?

I have recognized it be a better option but all I have read is it is to expensive and vips get it why shouldn't premium.

I stated in last post that a perm elite open might be nice but nm what people will pay and I am glad VIP's actually get something that has a lil shine to it over premium.

Making VIP maybe a lil more appealing than dropping to premium.

[BOgre]

What's your argument here? I stated wasn't someones fault because they want money.?

I have recognized it be a better option but all I have read is it is to expensive and vips get it why shouldn't premium.

I stated in last post that a perm elite open might be nice but nm what people will pay and I am glad VIP's actually get something that has a lil shine to it over premium.

Making VIP maybe a lil more appealing than dropping to premium.

Hehe. You said "dropping" Hehe.

[Gremmlynn]

You knew there were perks to being a VIP when you chose to go premium, you thought they weren't worth it before, now you think they are. It's called buyer's remorse.

More like bait and switch. I'm waiting for the u12 raises in xp requirements to balance bravery out to complete the deal. "Thank you for the nice lump sum payment, but now that we have squeezed you for all we could with that we are making that payment option obsolete".

Not saying that is Turbine's intent, but customers could really care less about intent if they perceive they are getting shafted.

[Aaxeyu]

Hmm again picking and choosing what say to remark at I also in same post it would be nice for them to lower cost.

A good idea maybe then is something like they have for other things. No idea if suggested before but a permanent elite open for as you state 2k + tp.

That might be viable but premium shouldn't just expect what vip gets for free or extremely cheap turbine is a business and wants to make money.

No one is expecting that I think.

Seriously though people if really want something will pay for it nm what me, you, or anyone says they still will make money.

None of us have the numbers to say that the way is now will make less than any idea anyone can come up with.

People will pay when they really want something.

We need numbers that neither of us have to say otherwise.

We need numbers to say something for certain, but it's doesn't take a kalashtar to figure out that the price of elite unlocks currently is waaay to high to be optimal price.

[Truga]

Why is it better to force people to find an opener instead of giving them the option to open themelsves (not for free)?

Because that is selling convenience, and that's what vip is all about. Can we let this thread die now?

[Aaxeyu]

Because that is selling convenience, and that's what vip is all about. Can we let this thread die now?

Selling convenience would be to sell the elite unlock in the store (for a reasonable price).
That's what the store is all about. I really don't understand why you oppose it.

[Mercules]

Selling convenience would be to sell the elite unlock in the store (for a reasonable price).
That's what the store is all about. I really don't understand why you oppose it.

Because when you can buy everything a subscription can get you it is cheaper, in the long run, to buy it and not subscribe. Subscriptions AND Micro-transactions pay for the game, not just micro-transactions and not just subscriptions. It is good for DDO to have both types of accounts and your suggestion would negate one of the few reasons to have the other type.