Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[sephiroth1084]

Somebody did the calculating in another thread. It works out to about a 5% xp bonus for people that tend to farm the same quests over and over and over. For people that run a lot of different quests to level, it was something like 8 or 9%. Basically you get a bigger reward for doing more quests and less repetition, whether it's worth it from an xp/time perspective, I don't know. Farming shadow crypt to oblivion may still be better xp than running other quests at +150% xp.

It depends on which quests you run, in which order, whether you only do Hard, only Elite, or a combination, etc. There are a ridiculous number of variables to factor in, but I guarantee the number is huge.

I mean, say, running nothing but elite (basically a constant full-stack of Bravery bonus from the time you finish the Korthos town to cap). That's +80% XP for every quest also, right? That's a pretty big boost...

I'm all for finding a better perk for VIPs to make subscription worthwhile. I always have been.
What I don't want is for that perk to fundamentally change the mechanics of game play for VIPs and ONLY for VIPs, when that wasn't a consideration for the 2+ years prior when many upon many of us made the decision to go Premium after years of subscribing.

What kind of perk can you envision that is both significant enough to really push people to subscribe, yet "fair" to everyone who doesn't pay a subscription and doesn't want to? I can't think of much that wouldn't have one side yawning or the other *****ing.

Explain to me how a Premium player can earn this bonus without the help of another player, or without spending an obscene amount of money ($1 for every single virgin dungeon in the game, which could be well over $200 per character... that's an obscene amount of money).
Every other game mechanic in the game can eventually be earned or purchased by a Premium. All of them except for the extra XP VIPs have available, that is....

Why is roping in a second player (or account if you previously had a lot of stuff opened on a VIP account) such a vile proposition in this MMultiplayerO game? Yeah, you solo. So do I, but that's a choice. You're not barred from gaining these bonuses; you choose not to utilize the tools available.

I have asked in the thread, and in others, that now with the introduction of this bonus, Premiums or TRs should have the ability to open hard. Not elite, just hard.
That doesn't slap us in the face and it keeps the real goodies for the VIPs. Everyone wins.

I'm cool with that.

[Isolani]

Yeah, I paid $15 a month for a year and a half, I'm at $10 a month for the last 6 months or so. And how is your premium money wasted by going VIP now, you still own the content you paid for, you're just paying $10 a month for the bravery bonus...I would do it in a second with no complaints. If premiums get to open on elite, then my VIP money really was wasted, since I own nothing and they gave away about the only perk I had that was worth anything. I would have been better off just going premium, at least you still own the content when you cancel your sub. Why should my VIP money spent over 2 years be 2nd class? It wasn't my idea to give VIPs perks, but I stayed VIP to keep them, and I want them.

Don't freak out, I guarantee they are either going to change how bravery works or give premiums some DDO store option to make it available. The only people I have a beef with are the ones that think TR's should get to open on elite, you can buy 1 epic pack from favor, run epics, and TR for nothing. No way they should get the same perk that people are paying monthly for.

I've already said I think they should just dump the bravery thing, increase the xp bonus for hard and elite to +60 and +100% and be done with it. It's fair to everybody and makes the TR xp grind a little easier.

[Letrii]

I demand a way for me to pay for VIP subscription

Not everyone is *able* to pay for VIP subscription because someone decided not to support it via paypal.

I'm not saying premiums should be able to open elite easily, I'm just saying that the current implementation isn't really thought out very well regarding fairness.

When I was VIP I used a Walmart Money Card, might wanna consider using that so you can go VIP if you want.

[SilkofDrasnia]

Yeah, I paid $15 a month for a year and a half, I'm at $10 a month for the last 6 months or so. And how is your premium money wasted by going VIP now, you still own the content you paid for, you're just paying $10 a month for the bravery bonus...I would do it in a second with no complaints. If premiums get to open on elite, then my VIP money really was wasted, since I own nothing and they gave away about the only perk I had that was worth anything. I would have been better off just going premium, at least you still own the content when you cancel your sub. Why should my VIP money spent over 2 years be 2nd class? It wasn't my idea to give VIPs perks, but I stayed VIP to keep them, and I want them.

Don't freak out, I guarantee they are either going to change how bravery works or give premiums some DDO store option to make it available. The only people I have a beef with are the ones that think TR's should get to open on elite, you can buy 1 epic pack from favor, run epics, and TR for nothing. No way they should get the same perk that people are paying monthly for.

I've already said I think they should just dump the bravery thing, increase the xp bonus for hard and elite to +60 and +100% and be done with it. It's fair to everybody and makes the TR xp grind a little easier.

hows it wasted i would then have actually be paying for 2 subscriptions, 1- the lifetime one i've already paid for key word is lifetime and then i would be paying again for 2- the monthly subscriptions of which i already paid a lifetime subscription to a good part of.

hmm how about this we both paid for a subscription u prefer yours, i mine. i think mines is worth more, you think yours is, ok tis a free world BUT agree i did pay a subscription just like you so if your getting perks from your subscribtion i dont get why shouldnt i get perks you dont get?

[Isolani]

hows it wasted i would then have actually be paying for 2 subscriptions, 1- the lifetime one i've already paid for key word is lifetime and then i would be paying again for 2- the monthly subscriptions of which i already paid a lifetime subscription to a good part of.

hmm how about this we both paid for a subscription u prefer yours, i mine. i think mines is worth more, you think yours is, ok tis a free world BUT agree i did pay a subscription just like you so if your getting perks from your subscribtion i dont get why shouldnt i get perks you dont get?

You knew there were perks to being a VIP when you chose to go premium, you thought they weren't worth it before, now you think they are. It's called buyer's remorse.

[Calebro]

You knew there were perks to being a VIP when you chose to go premium, you thought they weren't worth it before, now you think they are. It's called buyer's remorse.

No, it's called changing the game mechanics to only allow certain payment options to access certain mechanics of the game.

If the first time bonus were only available to Premium members, and the zero death penalty were only available to F2P players, then you'd be singing a different toon. Get off of your high horse because you chose to rent while we chose to purchase.

[Truga]

All I read here is "I paid over 9000 dollars for my game, let me have this bonus, I'll pay another 9000!".

Well, your bonus costs only 119.88 bucks per year. Either also buy this bonus or quit playing.

I know I still won't be buying VIP subscription, there's plenty other VIPs around that I don't need to. I'm happy that they're paying the game I play for me, and taking perks away from them = taking money away from turbine, since some will surely drop subs.

For the soloists here, you'll probably just have to deal with it, like you have to deal with a lot of things when solo. It's a personal choice to play solo, and it brings some perks and penalties with it.

tl;dr: don't let anyone open hard/elite that can't open it now. There's them chimes of opening in store. Make them priced reasonably, or make them work for a couple hours (with pause in public areas and all that fluff), but don't give people even less incentive to go VIP.

[Isolani]

No, it's called changing the game mechanics to only allow certain payment options to access certain mechanics of the game.

If the first time bonus were only available to Premium members, and the zero death penalty were only available to F2P players, then you'd be singing a different toon. Get off of your high horse because you chose to rent while we chose to purchase.

You can make your own opener, or know somebody to open for you on elite, or ask for an opener in LFG. It's harder for a premium to take advantage of it, that is all. Pretending like it's impossible for a premium to take advantage of it is just plain BS.

And no, if there were some big advantage to being premium, I would cancel my sub and go premium...I wouldn't cry about what I'm not getting on the forums, I would switch to the one that is better. I thought VIP was worth the money before, and even more worth it now. If premiums are given elite unlock, I would probably go premium since the only thing a VIP has at that point is 500 TP a month which is nice, but I don't really care about it.

[Calebro]

You can make your own opener, or know somebody to open for you on elite, or ask for an opener in LFG. It's harder for a premium to take advantage of it, that is all. Pretending like it's impossible for a premium to take advantage of it is just plain BS.

Oh, I see. So because I would need someone else's help (lumping a secondary account into the "someone else" category), your claim is that it's possible.
But it is not possible for them to get it on their own, and this is the ONLY thing in the game that has this restriction.
It's exclusive to VIPs, because Premium players are excluded without their help.

[Skavenaps]

Just let premiun buy "hard permaopen" and let the vip have the elite also.

everybody happy as all can have the bonus (premiun need to work a bit more for that) and vip still have something

[BruceTheHoon]

I'm a premium player and I don't want VIPs to lose that perk. If you have just ONE friend, you can bypass this anyway (there are exceptions like VoN 5&6, Titan raid and other 'yo dawg' quests).

One solution that comes to mind is to grant opening as a favor reward for some very top end cumulative favor (currently 3000+). Players who have this amount of total favor, had to have already done a vast majority of the game on elite and have bought almost every pack available. That sounds prety fair to me.

[sephiroth1084]

No, it's called changing the game mechanics to only allow certain payment options to access certain mechanics of the game.

I still disagree with this argument/point.

[Isolani]

Oh, I see. So because I would need someone else's help (lumping a secondary account into the "someone else" category), your claim is that it's possible.
But it is not possible for them to get it on their own, and this is the ONLY thing in the game that has this restriction.
It's exclusive to VIPs, because Premium players are excluded without their help.

How is having a 2nd account not getting it on your own? I haven't called for people to stop window farming shadow crypt just because I never bothered to make my own opener for it. They are getting a lot more xp than me and it isn't fair! Hell, the amount of extra xp they are getting over me is probably more than you would get from the bravery bonus all the way to cap. The opportunity to make an opener is there for you, and it doesn't cost much, some of it is paid for with favor, whether you choose to do it or not is up to you.

And if the bravery bonus is so important to you, go VIP...problem solved. Having exclusive perks is kind of the whole point of being VIP.

[Dendrix]

You might be surprised as to how many of us that paid for the game and development in its early stages (i.e., before DDO: Eberon Unlimited came out) are in the Premium camp.

You didn't pay for development, you paid to play DDO.
Turbine chose to spend the money you paid them in ways that made sense to them.

[Razcar]

It's most definately not a double standard. VIP's put their money in the pot every month. I'm a premium player, and haven't spent a dime in the last year. Probably won't in the near future, due to my situation. I earn enough favor from playing the game to unlock new content as it comes out. Sure I don't buy perks like xp pots/etc very often, but at my current very moderate playtime I can skate by without spending another dime for the next several years...

+1 for honesty. It's funny reading the Premium players in this thread thumping their chests and bragging "We saved DDO!" and "We pay more than VIPs!" while the truth of the average Premium spending is more likely as your situation. They bought some TP's the first year they played, and used that along with free favor TP to buy the "big packs" a shared bank and a char slot or twoo, and that's about what they will spend on this game. With a little pack here and there funded by free Favor TP and maybe a tenner spent for Christmas.

No harm in that, that's they way Turbine made the system. But saying that the average Premium player that started in 2009 has paid as much, or even close to what a VIP that started at the same time has, is at best deslusional and at worst a greedy lie.

[Zharfie]

When I was VIP I used a Walmart Money Card, might wanna consider using that so you can go VIP if you want.

Ok! Could you point me to the nearest Walmart? oh, that's probably ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD...

don't assume everyone's American, please

[Mercules]

and its premium players that have paid for most of these new shines, just take a look back at how it was going before the game went f2p and was ONLY VIP.

I don't buy this. Every VIP I know not only pays their monthly fee of $9.99 but also tends to pick up Turbine Points when they go on sale for Armor Kits, TRing, XP pots, upgrading Airships and other little amenities. I know one who states he would spend more during an evening at the bar so picking up TP to get this and that is cheap entertainment for him.

The Turbine Store isn't just selling to F2P and Premium players. You are not the soul reason DDO is still here today. Micro transactions... Yes. Premium players... No.

look at it this way vip didnt have it before yes and where willing to pay for vip so why would it be different now.

Look at it this way, you were perfectly willing to take the gamble that Turbine would never come up with something that would make VIP preferable to Premium. It didn't pay off. Why would ANYONE be naive enough to think that Turbine would turn all of it's subscriptions into pay once players? Who here didn't see something like this coming? Oh, right the premium players.

im sure they can come up with a way so everyone gets the bonus without taking the vip elite opening perk

I'm sure they could. I'm not sure they want to. The difference is minimal. It is a difference and there should be some difference between the various account types.

[Mercules]

Ok! Could you point me to the nearest Walmart? oh, that's probably ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD...

don't assume everyone's American, please

You've never heard of walmart.com?

BTW,

http://www.ddo.com/ddogameinfo/46-re...game-time-card

You can pay with Paypal.

[Letrii]

Ok! Could you point me to the nearest Walmart? oh, that's probably ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD...

don't assume everyone's American, please

I thought Walmart was global.

[Zharfie]

You've never heard of walmart.com?

BTW,

http://www.ddo.com/ddogameinfo/46-re...game-time-card

You can pay with Paypal.

No I had never heard of walmart.com... also hadn't seen that game time card before, thanks!

I thought Walmart was global.

Preeetty sure there's no walmart in Finland...

anyway, thanks for these pointers, I'll leave you guys to fight over this matter