Dex Feat

[Abilbo]

Some friends and I were talking about an interesting way to improve the ranger class/ranged damage, primarily for those players that enjoy playing using bows as their main weapon, and would rather NOT swtich to melee when many shot runs out. One very simple solution to this would be a Dex Feat. Make it so that you can choose this feat, to apply your Dex bonus to your ranged damage modifier.

Thier is a very simple reason for this. A ranger that is not following the tempest line, has to split his primary stat points between STR and DEX, leaving little for Con, and then deciding if he wants any at all for INT to get more skill points, or WIS to get more mana. A ranger that has the ability, to choose this DEX feat, could ignore his STR, and max his DEX. He can bump his CON, which everyone in game will agree, that the higher you can get it, the better you are off in the higher levels. The ranger than can decide either to add 4 more points to his CON as his 4th level stat increase's or can max his DEX even higher to get better to hit and damage from his bow. The AC boost from a pure DEX ranger goes up enough, that many AA's would stop running around, if they could avoid or mitigate much of the damage they would be taking.

This feat could be introduced in many ways. It can go into the general options, available to any class, or it could be a choice for rangers at level 2. Those rangers who want to be Tempest Rangers would choose Bow Strength, as their primary stat is going to be STR anyway, as it is the modifier both to hit and damage with Melee weapons. An AA who could choose the DEX feat, instead of Bow Strength gets to raise his CON and build the character in the way they see best.

The DEX Feat, if granted, does not mean that AA's damage would surpass melee classes, or caster classes, it just means that they can have thier highest stat ability, apply both to their to hit and damage modifiers.

If you think about it. A HO Barb, starting with 20 str, applying 1 STR at each of the 4th level bums, and 5 points through their class/racial abilities, and wearing a +6 STR item, will have 35 STR, not including any epic gear, or tomes, or ship buffs. An Elven Ranger, who wants to go AA, CAN NOT start with 20 DEX, if he wants to apply any stat points to STR needed for his bow damage, and if he jacks it up, then his CON suffers greatly.

There is no reason why an Elven AA, should not be albe to choose a DEX build, ignore his STR, for the sole reason of bumping up his damage on his bow. It adds to his reflex skill to make him evade more, and increases his armor class.

I know their are alot of people out there who don't like AA's, and most everyone agrees that the current ranged system allows for AA"s to have great burst damage, but for the other 1 min 40 sec, they should be meleeing. Wearing LA, with low CON makes you squishy. Adding a DEX Feat, in this manner, does not overpower the class, it just enhances it, and allows the AA to do what they want to do, and that is to stand back, and shoot things in the face.

[Glenalth]

I would never take such a feat, melee would suffer too much.

[Abilbo]

Thinking more on this.

A Wizard, chooses INT as his primary stat, and CON as his 2nd. It doesn't matter if they are a pale master or archmage, thier two primary stats are going to be INT and CON. If you told Wizards that their SP would be based on their INT and their DC's based on their WIS, how upset do you think it would make the class? How much life would you expect to see on a good Wiz, who was forced to drop CON points, to raise thier WIS?

If a Fighters to hit was based on his CHA and his damage based on STR, how well of a character could you build?
Sure his intimidate would go up, from the higher CHA, but it wouldn't be worth it.

An AA who chooses that path, would benefit greatly from having the DEX Feat, if you make him choose it, or by adding it into his prestige enhancement, benefiting AA's.

The STR based Tempest Ranger who focus's on STR, is a good TWF. An AA who has to take STR to increase his bow damage is an OK ranged attacker, and a so-so Melee character.

And for everyone who thinks that this way over powers Ranged players, please think of all the 2HW HO Barbs, who are boosting thier STR stat to over 60 with gear. That 60 STR applies to the hit and damage modifier, something the Ranged attacker will never accomplish.

[Abilbo]

I would never take such a feat, melee would suffer too much.

Thats the idea, if your DEX was your sole stat, you would be able to do enough damage with a bow, that you would not have to.

My TR Ranger started STR and DEX at 17 each, took a +1 tome for both, and by level 16 will have base STR of 22 and DEX of 23.

A TR HO Barb will start with STR 20, and by level 16 will have 29 with no tomes.

Even if Melee and Ranged weapons did the exact same damage, and attacked at the exact same speed, the melee charater gets the better to hit and damage, because he can MAX one stat, instead of having to split the two. Not to mention how much higher his CON is going to be.

[Glenalth]

Thats the idea, if your DEX was your sole stat, you would be able to do enough damage with a bow, that you would not have to.

The 4-6pts Your suggested feat would add per attack would not make that an option either. They added 25pts per attack not long ago and that still doesn't make it a good option for general use.

[Abilbo]

The extra to hit as well as to damage, makes your all around bow damage that much better, and that is all I am trying to achieve.

[Glenalth]

The extra to hit as well as to damage, makes your all around bow damage that much better, and that is all I am trying to achieve.

If simply consolidating the stat for attack and damage made bows viable, we'd see a lot more throwing builds using Brutal Throw. If you're looking to make ranged viable as a 100% of the time DPS solution, this isn't going to do it.

[~anotherbilbo]

I am just trying to find a way to increase my ranged damage, without having to suffer a loss in CON. With the new stuff they are trying on the test server, everyone in party will be able to see your health, not just the bar, but the actual number. If you were forming a raid, and a person with 10-12 CON were to join, meaning for rangers, under 300 health even with a toughness feat, are you going to think twice about letting him stay in?

Anytime you force a class to split their points between 4 stats, you force that class suffer. A tempest ranger doesn't suffer so much, because he can afford to have lower DEX, as STR is his primary attribute to hit and to damage.

If you thik that the idea of an optional DEX feat that you could take, to make your DEX stat your damage modifier to ranged, their are two simple fixes. Make it an optional choice that rangers at level 2 would choose from, Bow STR or Dex Mod. Or simply make it part of the AA Prestige Enhancement. It simply gives them a slightly better to hit, a slightly better to damage, but allows them to put significantly more points in to their CON.

It just seems strange to me, that their needs to be an actual feat for BOW STR, why isn't thier an actual stat modifier for damage in place for bows currently? Why the need for the feat? No other weapon in game, requires this.

Perhaps, by the time I TR 5 times, and have more greensteel than i can think about laying around in the bank, then i could understand why rangers should melee. But on my Ranger, i have 1 GS Bow, Tier 2, with no quick estimate of making it tier 3, and won't have any GS melee weapons for a long time to come. Enabling my ranged character to do slightly better ranged DPS, isnt a bad thing, especially if it means his health can go up

[Kannos1600]

I would pass on this feat myself.

Spliting my points among those 3 stats doesnt really bother me when all is said and done with gear bonuses of +6 later in the game.

Heck my main has 22 Str, 32 Dex, and 23 Con. I dont miss a whole lot and the damage I deal is good to go. I have enough HP to last me and in group runs Im typically not the Tank so I dont need to worry hard on being the apple of the enemies eye all the time so on the couple of hits I get from the enemy my HP serves its purpose.

Then again I dont suffer from a Stand Alone Complex when gaming so...Meh. Carry on.

Interesting idea for a feat but all in all not strongly needed as a viable source of featness.

[Rauven]

My halfling AA started with Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14 and Wis 12. At level 20, with just basic gear and buffs he will have Str 30, Dex 30, Con 22 and Wis 20. That's just +6 gear and +1/+2 tomes. With a little work he will have Str 40, Dex 40 and 450-500 hp.

Str:
14 - base
5 - levels
1 - tome
6 - item
---
26 - standing
2 - rams
2 - rage
---
30 - self buffed
2 - exceptional
1 - other (exceptional or +7 item)
1 - +2 tome
---
34 - with a little work
2 - yugo
2 - ship
---
38 - with most of the goodies
2 - +4 tome
---
40 - with all of the goodies


Dex:
18 - base
2 - tome
4 - enhancements
6 - item
---
30 - standing
1 - enhanc
3 - exceptional
2 - ship
2 - yugo
2 - +4 tome
---
40 - with all the goodies and a bit of work


Not only will I be able to do decent ranged damage but I'll also be able to pick up weapons and beat on stuff too.

[Phidius]

Thinking more on this.

A Wizard, chooses INT as his primary stat, and CON as his 2nd. It doesn't matter if they are a pale master or archmage, thier two primary stats are going to be INT and CON. If you told Wizards that their SP would be based on their INT and their DC's based on their WIS, how upset do you think it would make the class? How much life would you expect to see on a good Wiz, who was forced to drop CON points, to raise thier WIS?
...

You mean like how Favored Souls get their spell points from Charisma, and their DCs from Wisdom?

Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth - ranger already get to boost their ranged damage for free. Everyone else has to spend 4 feats to apply their strength to their bows.

[Roguish_Existence]

You mean like how Favored Souls get their spell points from Charisma, and their DCs from Wisdom?

Whoever thought that was a "good" idea should be hit in the face repeatedly.

[Stillwaters]

Personally i think you got your feat backa$$wards.. instead of DEX (which never goes as high as melee get their STR - sooo many stacking buffs), Add in a

Ranged Training STR feat: This feat allows you to use your STR in place of your DEX to-hit for all ranged attacks.

This would bump up EVERYONES ranged with the addition of mainly ranged ppl changing their starting high DEX over to STR if they want a melee option. As you said DEX is ALSO an AC buff, and a REF save buff (for evasion), and a few key feats for both TWF and RANGED (Imp precise shot) work of your base DEX so its not like this would be a mandatory feat tax.

[toughguyjoe]

Whoever thought that was a "good" idea should be hit in the face repeatedly.

Wizards of the coast, actually.

[NaturalHazard]

If simply consolidating the stat for attack and damage made bows viable, we'd see a lot more throwing builds using Brutal Throw. If you're looking to make ranged viable as a 100% of the time DPS solution, this isn't going to do it.

hey didnt the legolas or what ever guy that a lot of people want to emulate also pull out some knives and go to town a few times in the movie?

I know he did some knife work up on the battlements in the book.

[NaturalHazard]

Not only will I be able to do decent ranged damage but I'll also be able to pick up weapons and beat on stuff too.

No thats not how your suppose to play an archer, your bow is suppose to be soldered to your hand!!!

Well thats what ive been told in game a few times lolz.

Hey your a ranger, why are you using melee weapons?