Rude? Or to be expected?

[Shade]

It goes both ways.

I've only done 1 pug lowbie chronoscope as I think lowbie raids are really stupid and boring.. It was as I expected.

But I wanted it to go smoothly at least, so I gave the 3 clerics each a full CSW wand.

None of them used a single charge on me, nor cured me once or much anyone else in there. I had to entirely self healed with csw pots, as well as do 95% of the work in terms of killing/tanking. Despite that I didn't really feel challenged at all and everything died in seconds.

None of them thanked me or bothered trying to return the unused wands.

I didn't really care as its nothing to me, i could afford to give them each a 50 wands and not notice the cost.

It just goes to show you at low lvl when players are new to the game, they overlook these kinds of things and it really doesn't matter or have any impact as long as you have 1-2 core players that know whats going on.

It's just a dumb raid and was a really dumb idea for turbine to even develope it in the first place. lvl6 players are still overwealmed by the very basic stuff in the game like the UI/whats happening/what spells to cast/what to expect/etc to even begin to think about the concerns of 11 other players in raid (i mean it takes a day or two tops even for brand new players). It's just far to soon to throw them in there and expect anything meaningful from them.

[Terebinthia]

The irk I have with Chronoscope is that because all the loot in there is BTA you then have to explain to new players when they get into the other raids that the stuff in there is BTC, which leads to loot confusion. I've had newbies get very testy at me thinking I'm trying to cheat them when I've explained that before.

The set from there is very nice though. So it's swings and roundabouts. Does attract a lot of .... interesting people at level though, so I tend not to bother. Better to sack Delera's instead

OP, I was going to say I'd hook you up with some consumables but I see you are a) on Thelanis, where I am not and b) have a different capped toon. So I'm guessing you'll be OK

[Zillee]

I'm surprised to read that they said no, when asked to pass stuff over. Most players do share what they have out of the chest if asked specifically and they have no need of it. So I think it was a situation as others have said of the players being new and in need of plat themselves. Things should get better as you reach higher levels if you ask for some recompense for the wands/pots you've used to get a group through a quest/raid and players are no longer scrabbling about for plat to buy their first set of good armour/weapons.

And keep on asking. I'll admit that when I started I had no idea that a healer would often be using wands to keep a group up. It wasn't until I rolled a cleric myself that I saw how it was and then started to carry around some wands on my melee toons to give to the healer if needed at those harbour/marketplace levels. By speaking up and asking for those chest drops, you're raising awareness of the costs of being a healer for those newbs.

[blade_of_will]

It goes both ways.

I've only done 1 pug lowbie chronoscope as I think lowbie raids are really stupid and boring.. It was as I expected.

But I wanted it to go smoothly at least, so I gave the 3 clerics each a full CSW wand.

None of them used a single charge on me, nor cured me once or much anyone else in there. I had to entirely self healed with csw pots, as well as do 95% of the work in terms of killing/tanking. Despite that I didn't really feel challenged at all and everything died in seconds.

None of them thanked me or bothered trying to return the unused wands.

I didn't really care as its nothing to me, i could afford to give them each a 50 wands and not notice the cost.

It just goes to show you at low lvl when players are new to the game, they overlook these kinds of things and it really doesn't matter or have any impact as long as you have 1-2 core players that know whats going on.

It's just a dumb raid and was a really dumb idea for turbine to even develope it in the first place. lvl6 players are still overwealmed by the very basic stuff in the game like the UI/whats happening/what spells to cast/what to expect/etc to even begin to think about the concerns of 11 other players in raid (i mean it takes a day or two tops even for brand new players). It's just far to soon to throw them in there and expect anything meaningful from them.

I think its good for the game, and your probably overestimating the leveling abilities of new players. For many players, they dont reach lvl 6 the first few days that they are playing, because they are learning some of the basic stuff and running korthos and harbor quests.. but around level 6-8, quests start going from the kobolds new ringleader style to proof is in the poison and freshen the air - and those quests can be brutal at-level for new players. They have to learn sometime, and what would you rather have, a player that learned to raid at lvl 6 or 9 (chrono/tempest) or one learning to raid at lvl 18 in tod?

For the sharing stuff, pots I might be kinda iffy about if I'm on my arcane - would depend on the healer, but I have no problem sharing wands/scrolls/spell components if someone asks for them. Also, if I was a nearly-totally-broke new player, who asked to be passed looted wands and didnt, thats fine, but I would snicker later if the same player asks for healing and say "You took the healing wand.. I assumed you were going to use it to keep yourself alive."

[Lleren]

what would you rather have, a player that learned to raid at lvl 6 or 9 (chrono/tempest) or one learning to raid at lvl 18 in tod?

I want players that learned to raid 10 or more years ago...

[gavijal]

M8, as clerics you will often get " Ty, for heals", "great healing" or some1 will give you potions heal scrolls etc.. Try playing Bard, u will offheal, spend loads of heal scrolls and potions to help noob clerics/fvs , loads of raise dead scrolls, you will buff/play songs and melee and you will not get single " thank you", not for offheal/scrolls/potions (because every1 assume that healer did it not you ( even than they will glorify cleric /fvs for great heal and you ) , not for songs (or maybe but really not so often) , not for anything. So, stop bragging.

[Schmoe]

We hit the Blood Plate chest and I see one of the fighters has a cure wand. I ask if I could get it from him and he says, “No, I need the money.” Okay, it’s his loot. I guess he doesn’t realize I am spending my money on wands to heal him and the rest of the raid. No big deal.

I think at that point my policy would change to "no more wands/scrolls on him." If he died, I would tell him he should have used his wand.

[Schmoe]

The solution is to not do at level chrono. Seriously. I'm passing on this bit of wisdom to you through personal experience.

It is terrible exp and the loot you should out-level a few days after you get it. It is basically only run by people people who are new-ish to the game and very, very rarely by vets looking to mess around a little. For that reason, any at level chrono group you join is almost guaranteed to be terrible.

Get to level 20 and start doing epic chrono. It will probably even be less resource intensive than at level.

I completely disagree with this advice. At-level, the Chronoscope is a lot of fun, a good challenge, and the loot is awesome. If you like to power-level and blow through a TR in a week, sure, there's no point. But if that's not your style, it's well worth it.

[PNellesen]

* Stuff about a group of REALLY stupid players *

If this had happened to me, I know that I would have had several new people on my "special" friends list. Like someone else said - the guys who refused to pass the wands because they "needed the money" (w - t - f??) would have been told "Ok, since you now have a wand, you can use it on yourself for the rest of the raid" and wouldn't have gotten another heal from me, unless they happened to be within burst range.

To be fair, I haven't seen this kind of behavior too much in my time as a Cleric - most times I'm offered stuff without having to ask for it, and those players go on my "group with again" list instantly. My "GWA" list is MUCH longer than my Squelch list

[Maxelcat]

Personally, I pass wand to those that can use them, keep as much self healing as possible, and also have a couple of raise scrolls/mana pots/wands on my toons for just such things.

Comes from a habit from when I was a little gimped and squishy first starting out.

[Mubjon]

I have been in a lot of these groups in PUG's, where one healer seems to just go to go and do not much else.

Good job on the solo-healing, and expect more of that behavior as you go. I have been given wands and pots during a quest but I can count them on 1 hand and I friend those that do so. And run with them with no fear of putting out my own plat to complete the quest, because I know if I need it and they have it I will be reimbursed.

[Miacorva]

Great job getting through solo healing Chrono at level.

Something that irks me is the mention of the piker cleric at the start. The others could be excused for being new, ignorant etc. But joining a group for a specific purpose and then piking the entire thing is unforgiveable.

Before you left had he returned, apologised for an emergency? Failing a decent explanation this character would have been first onto my "list".

[somenewnoob]

I ran an at level Chrono on my level 7 cleric once...................ONCE.

Never did it again. Was the only cleric and people were taking massive damage, I was out of sp and bloodplate wasn't below 75%.

Salute to you sir!

[mobrien316]

All good advice. Thanks!

I have to admit, though, I’m sure part of the problem is that I want to do a good job as a healer and at least try to have zero deaths. I expect to burn through my wands, and I really have no problem with that, but it would be nice if someone realized that passing a cure wand to a healer is going to be better for the raid and likely better for them personally than if they sold it for the few bucks it will bring them.

I was in the Pit on hard the other day with the same 7th level cleric and there was a human wizard (also level 7) that needed constant heals and multiple trips to the resurrect shrine. I would heal him and it seemed like one hit would bring back to 2% health and I’d have to heal him again. I was the only healer and was burning myself out on this one guy. Plus, my stubby little dwarf legs were getting tired from all the runs to the shrine with his stone.

I asked him how many hit points he has (which I often do when I play my cleric, so I can get a better sense of when to heal them) and he refused to answer me. I checked MyDDO page (which I realize can be out of date) and saw that he had 48 hp at level 7.

After fighting with the trogs in the room with the wheels the wizard was down to a couple of hit points again (this was after one death in that room already and a trip to the shrine) and I was low on SP. He asked for a heal and I said the battle was over for now and he could just drink a pot. He said he doesn’t carry pots because they are too expensive and he doesn’t have a guild to pass him money.

Within seconds I got a tell from three other party members suggesting I just let him die and stop wasting my SP on him.

I figured he was a new player, but he certainly wasn’t listening to all of the (very polite) suggestions he had been getting up to that point from the group.

For the rest of the quest I continued to throw him some heals, but nowhere near the frantic and near-continuous amount I had been giving him, and when he died (which he did NINE times during the quest) I would toss him in my backpack until we passed the next shrine – no more special trips just to resurrect him. I even went all the way back up the ladder to resurrect him after killing the avatar, just to let him have a chance at Muck’s Doom. All the while I was trying to offer a few friendly suggestions, but I don’t think he was listening.

Anyway… My point is that I guess I am vain about my healer’s reputation. I want to do the best job I can, even if some members of the group are selfish idiots.

[arch0njw]

My experience is that this is entirely based on the group I am with. The rule of thumb is go by is never to expect anyone to be generous with their loot that could benefit me. While that may sound like pessimism, the fact is that the loot is given as it is given and beyond that we are each hoping for generosity. I have seen other reasons for not giving things away such as wanting to give it to an alt, a guild-friend, etc.

That said, it still kinda annoys me. I'm right here. I've used my resources to help the party this far. If I've expended SP or wands, passing replacements off to me would be nice. That is especially true if there is more distance to go in the quest yet.

When I am with a group that is generous with their loot sharing, I am thankful, express it, and put them in my friends list!

[Razcar]

... and at least try to have zero deaths.

That's not up to you. The sooner you accept that while playing Divine classes the better. People are responsible for their own defense and their own life, you can just help them a little. And if someone plays/builds/equips like he's got a death wish he will manage to fulfill that desire eventually.

You can't heal stupid. You can carry stupid in your backpack though.

[Sarisa]

This thread shows clearly how being prepared and working for the good of the group leads to much better success rates.

At-level Chrono is just too difficult for the average new player. There is a LOT of incoming damage, a lot of it cleave and a lot of it unpreventable. Very few (pretty much just Monks and monk splashes, or maybe Stalwart built fighters) can get viable AC in there. Invulnerability doesn't work on the devil trash. It requires everyone in the group to play smart and have their own supplies, along with DR breakers (that can thankfully be bought inside the instance for SOME weapon types). You can't depend totally on someone healing you.

From the repeated mention of "money" your party members said, it's definite that it's a bit hard for a new player to afford the stacks of cure, status removal, and resistance potions that really make a huge difference. Many new players don't know the value of certain collectibles and certain rare named items. Most people in a Chrono would at least be Premium, but there is a small chance that they may be completely F2P (just buying the pack off their first-time favour bonus TP). Remember that F2P characters have some strict AH limits, along with a plat cap, so using the AH to sell one stack of collectibles at a time can take a long while to get enough funds to buy their stack of potions.

I somewhat see the point the developers made, a low level introduction raid, to try to teach new players the basics of raiding, teamwork, and roles. However, it's P2P and not F2P, you typically spend more than you make for the average group, and a group of new players will usually fail just due to not having the resources and experience to succeed.

That said, at-level Chrono IS very fun, even to heal, as long as you're in a solid group who knows what to expect and prepares for it. To a good group, it is a good challenge, but is definitely able to be overcome without breaking the bank. I generally will only run at-level Chrono with a private guild/friends group just because I know everyone will come prepared.

[justagame]

It's one thing to accept that new players might not be aware of things like passing wands to healers that are using resources to keep a party up -- it might not occur to them. In that case, I agree with Meli's suggestion of explaining things (politely) to the newer players.

But in a situation where one is blowing through resources, and the party is looting healing resources and flat out refusing to contribute when asked -- forget it, I've got better things to do with my time. After a couple of those, I'd at the very least make it clear I was no longer contributing resources to the party either (since no one else seemed to be).

My first character was a cleric. Fortunately I had very few experiences like the OP, but definitely had a few, where party members were oblivious and/or indifferent to the costs it took to keep them up, and when the issue was raised, were unmoved to either change tactics or contribute to help subsidize their costly choice of playstyle.

[PNellesen]

I was in the Pit on hard the other day with the same 7th level cleric and there was a human wizard (also level 7) that needed constant heals and multiple trips to the resurrect shrine. I would heal him and it seemed like one hit would bring back to 2% health and I’d have to heal him again. I was the only healer and was burning myself out on this one guy. Plus, my stubby little dwarf legs were getting tired from all the runs to the shrine with his stone.
...
He said he doesn’t carry pots because they are too expensive and he doesn’t have a guild to pass him money.

Within seconds I got a tell from three other party members suggesting I just let him die and stop wasting my SP on him.
...
Anyway… My point is that I guess I am vain about my healer’s reputation. I want to do the best job I can, even if some members of the group are selfish idiots.

Sometimes you just have to let the really, really squishy guys die - if they can only take one hit before going down, odds are they're not really contributing to the success of the group anyway, and they become a distraction and a resource drain. (And the comment about "too expensive" would have been the last straw for me - what, do wands just magically appear in a Cleric's backpack for free or something???) The other party members were correct in this case, harsh as it may seem. "Doing the best job you can" also includes knowing when it's time to throw in the towel on someone as well.

[Chai]

It's just a dumb raid and was a really dumb idea for turbine to even develope it in the first place. lvl6 players are still overwealmed by the very basic stuff in the game like the UI/whats happening/what spells to cast/what to expect/etc to even begin to think about the concerns of 11 other players in raid (i mean it takes a day or two tops even for brand new players). It's just far to soon to throw them in there and expect anything meaningful from them.

I disagree. I like the fact that we have a raid this low level. Its a wake up call that everything isnt going to be easy peasy right off the bat without gaining some knowledge and understanding of how the game works.

It beats the pants off having new players leveling to 20 on casual / normal then ending up in TOD / epics having no idea due to the severe lack of an enforced learning curve, which is already readily apparent in DDO.