The StunGunner 12Ftr/8Mnk First life build

[lopter]

The concept is to have a crowd controlling monk/ftr that can successfully stun and maximize damage output while stunned (speed)

Polespinner had a great comment if you dont have wf the concept can be directly applied to dwarf

I STRESS TO SAY EVERYTHING ON THIS BUILD CAN BE BETTER
but my goal is to show a low gear intensive toon that has a great spot for in epic content without needing Epic or grind intensive gear.

The entry level on being an effective stun gunner is so low you can go without all the extra oomph gear i have put in (titans grips/+2 guild shrines) and still have a great dc

you use stunning fist to perma stun 1 mob. stunning blow is your emergency oh Sh*t stun the caster as it is virtually guaranteed to land. maxed out you can stun the orange devils in chrono with your stunning blow obv past life ftr would only increase this.
quick draw is mainly for the dps increase on the clickies to re attacking but also if you swap from stun wraps to non stun wraps after a successful stun


Healing amp is a must minimum jidz (you could push more healing amp into enhancements)

So Im pretty sure this is the highest atk speed possible (I may be wrong ) at worst its very close to the highest. Kensai 2 gives you plenty of boost for extended fighting

The main differing point from this build than other 12ftr/8mnk builds is i focus on
stun enhancements giving the following (buffed number)

Stunning fist : 10 Base + 10 Stunner + 4 Wis(breakdown below) + 10 (1/2 level) + 2 wf tactics + 4 stunning blow enhancements + 2 kensai = 42

Stunning blow : 10 Base + 10 Stunner + 21 Str (breakdown below) + 2 wf tactics + 4 stunning blow enhancements + 2 kensai = 49!


wisdom
8 base
2 tome
1 enhancement
6 item
2 guild buff
------
17 or +4 bonus (eventually exceptional wisdom +1 and 2 on goggles of time sensing but not included but would add 2 more to dc)

Strength
23 base
2 tome
3 enhancement
6 item
8 power surge
6 Grips
2 rage
2 guild buff
------
52 or +21 (eventually +1 str from ring and +3 str tome or +7 str gloves etc )


My Hp endgame should be about in wind stance 616 (no specialized gear)
in fire stance 636
and in earth 656

add 20 for rage
add 20 for +2 con shrine
add 5-20 for guild augment hp
add 20-40 for 2-4 extra con (+7 con item +3 exceptional)
add madstone yugo blah blah blah

as you can see he has a metric (*&(ton of hp.

additionally can hate tank easily with a xorian madness : obsession as his super fast
attack speed guarantees procs . Ive tanked elite vod/ and (normal) tods so far with no agro switch.


if you find your more daring/technical better geared (Great I say) I might suggest dropping the greater specialization that adds 2 to hit and snagging another toughness for added hp

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Gimpii v1.0 
Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(12 Fighter \ 8 Monk) 
Hit Points: 459
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 25                   28
Dexterity            15                 17                   17
Constitution         16                 18                   20
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom                8                 10                   11
Charisma              6                  6                    6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics II

[wax_on_wax_off]

Surely starting with strength 2 points lower and wisdom 4 points higher will be much better? Maybe just 1 point lower could work too.

Regarding attack speed a 12 ranger / 7 fighter or rogue / 1 monk will have a much better attack speed courtesy of 100% offhand proc. 6 ranger can work too (you get +2 strength too from rams might).

Have you checked out the Godhand build?

[lopter]

yea godhand is very similar but doesn't focus on stunning and does a few other things differently

1. dodge (feat lost) * is not dark monk*
2. insane gear makeup (very grind intensive)
3. excessive tomes +3s
4. slower attack speed (incorrect misread enhancements)
5. lower maximum hp (which is deliberately unlisted) feel free to do the if im double madstoned yugo'ed ship buffed rages etc and see

Stungunner needs none of that. Period. (can use it but does not require it)

also in epics to hit is insane and the goal of this build is power attack on. stun ftw
1 to hit difference is 5%

so I miss 5% more for a +2 to a dc thats already in the mid 40s? I will pass. others might not but I shall..

I could out hatetank a godhand with 1 docent thats 10x easier to get than the DT docent listed .
Fleshapers Docent
Xorian Madness : obession (100% hate gen proc)

[wax_on_wax_off]

1. dark monk (feat lost)

Dark monk has to be seen as superior for a 6 level monk splash due to the massive boost to survivability that shadow fade represents. Dropping from 5 toughness feats to 4 represents a 3% drop in HP but in almost all situations a 25% increase in survivability due to miss chance, it's a no brainer really unless light path is giving you something else that is crucial to your build? Sneak damage is nice too against stunned enemies.

2. insane gear makeup (very grind intensive)
3. excessive tomes +3s

With your build and with the Godhand, the gear doesn't make it. Either of the builds can function to its intent with a very minimal amount of gearing and at the same time will appreciate being geared up.

4. slower attack speed

Umm, how do you figure?

5. lower maximum hp (which is deliberately unlisted) feel free to do the if im double madstoned yugo'ed ship buffed rages etc and see

5 toughness feats will do that ... but there are perhaps some other feats which might give you more bang for buck than the 3% HP boosts that you're doing at the moment. Those toughness feats might be handy for tanking Horoth but that's about it really and even then I doubt all of them are necessary.

Stungunner needs none of that. Period. (can use it but does not require it)

See 2. and 3.

also in epics to hit is insane and the goal of this build is power attack on. stun ftw
1 to hit difference is 5%

Your build is combining one of the highest AB builds (kensei II) with one of the highest AB weapons (handwraps). You really shouldn't have any AB problems at all as long as there is some vague gear parity to the foes you face (+1 handwraps vs epic malicia might cause some problems!)

so I miss 5% more for a +2 to a dc thats already in the mid 40s? I will pass. others might not but I shall..

From the previous point, if you miss 5% more against .1% of enemies but get +2 dc which will be useful in a majority of situations ... As suggested you could compromise and go 17 strength and 11 or 12 wisdom for less than 5% missing.

I could out hatetank a godhand with 1 docent thats 10x easier to get than the DT docent listed .
Fleshapers Docent
Xorian Madness : obession (100% hate gen proc)

This is a bit ignorant. Obviously the Godhand will have been created before the docent you mention was released. What happens when both builds have the same docent/gear? Comparable hate generation? I wonder why ...

As mentioned you are not the fastest attack speed.
No haste boosts:
12 ranger / 6 monk build / 2 fighter : 3.803 attacks/second
12 ranger / 7 rogue or fighter / 1 monk: 3.76 attacks/second
12 fighter / 8 monk: 3.43 attacks/second

Haste boosts:
12 ranger / 7 rogue or fighter / 1 monk: 4.78 attacks/second
12 fighter / 8 monk haste boost: 4.55 attacks/second
12 ranger / 6 monk / 2 fighter: 4.42 attacks/second

In all situations the 12 ranger / 7 rogue / 1 monk has considerably faster attack speed than your build.

[lopter]

first off. i even say in my first post if its not one of the highest it is close so thanks for the numbers ?

your missing the point of being able to double stun. anything you miss with your fist can be easily stunned with your blow so no matter what your gonna stun if you don't miss. why take the 5% chance you'll miss?

to use your comparison a 42 dc means everything non epic insta stun. and only the toughest epic fort mobs resist with any reasonable percent chance (ie echrono devils)
so we are really talking flavor here not comparative usefulness and since those same hard to stun mobs are the same hard to hit mobs (for the most part there are exceptions).. id rather hit and miss then never hit at all.

with the godhand you can "maybe" stun 1 mob every 15 seconds which means that mob still can dps between stuns.
with stungunner you can stun 1 mob every 6 seconds with a guaranteed backup stun every 15 seconds if you happen to fail.

if you make a godhand using this minimal gear it will pale in comparison to this build or end up being this build .. godhand requires so much gear to make its stun dc reliable its insane everything from litany / madstone/ yugo favor +3 tomes (intensive raiding)

and it still has a LOWER dc than my max blow with NONE of that.


heres a quick breakdown assume if not show equivalent gear

Stunning (includes +10 stun wraps)
Stungunner dc
Blow 45 (add 6 for grips and ship buff +2)(no non class related buff (kept powersurge for both as its free and long term available))
Fist 42
Godhand
Real dc 40 (all base str inc +3 tome and litany included)(all buffs excluded except powersurge)
Max dc 50

Hitpoints
Stungunner by 20
Godhand

Hategen
godhand would be better with the enhancements ((assuming same gear)but with the hategen proc no longer needed except to outhate)

Damage
Virtually the same if similar gear is used
Stungunner wins by .5 in enhancements in long term. (ie max gear)

However with a permanent 50% to stun on any mob stunner is fighting is a obvious increase in dps (though not a pure 50% as godhand will stun sometimes

Ac
Godhand by 1 (dodge feat) all other is gear related

Speed
Same
misread godhand in original post


Extra feats

Stungunner
Toughness
Stunning fist

Godhand
Dodge
past life

apparently godhands not dark but light path just took dodge for 1 extra ac.

5 toughness feats will do that ... but there are perhaps some other feats which might give you more bang for buck than the 3% HP boosts that you're doing at the moment. Those toughness feats might be handy for tanking Horoth but that's about it really and even then I doubt all of them are necessary.

1 3% of hp . /sigh. first of all this is a variable hp number .so this can not be correct .. seeing how i listed 3 separate base values and all. its precious that you do that but just say 22 hp. its simpler (or hey actually quote the hp number your basing it on) fyi percentages generally matter on to-hit and on saves. not so much on hp.

2. find a feat that will achieve this builds goals max speed / max stuns / max to hit/max hp .. that will achieve better and ill list it. i couldnt find one hope you can cause i always like better stuff.

3. the idea of stunning is so central to this build its actually in its name. without the gear godhand doesnt have a chance to stun in epics it can burst no fail with the gear. but even then it fails at keeping the mob perma-stunned

4. stungunner lost 1 ac. in epics a 57 - Self Buffed ac (godhands) doesn't matter. neither would a 56.

5. these two builds are VERY comparable .. except for the following
A. if your a new player with 32 pt builds and you roll a fresh character stungunner will get you to 20. let you play in epics without having to stress gear as much. and allow you to farm in epics VIABLY on a first life.
B. if your a vet multi-tr you still can do more damage (via stun +1 str enhancement). more cc(stun). even with the higher gear on StunGunner than on Godhand.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Just about every shortfall that you mention of the Godhand build can simply be attributed to the fact that it is dated. At the time it was made weighted handwraps didn't work, ninja-spy wasn't available, mob saves in epics were 10 points higher and finally stunning fist DC was 1/2 monk level, not 1/2 character level.

If any decent builder looked at the godhand build and wanted to make one that was relevant to the current state of the game then they would obviously look at the above factors and most likely make the following adjustments:
1. Include stunning fist.
2. Reconsider stat spread (at least consider starting with 11 or 12 wisdom depending on target DCs).
3. Throw out the Godhand listed enhancements and experiment with a set more relevant when the hard work was done to level.

I'd consider an excerpt from The Godhand's OP to be quite educational for you:

If starting with a 32 point build rather than TRing, I suggest taking a stat point away from wisdom. As well, the DPS numbers on a non-TR’d version of this will fall by only 2.5 per hit, which is less than some would think. As a result, there is no need to think of this as specifically a TR build. Several friends of mine have run this build to 20 by going with a 32 point build, and they have all given me very positive feedback.

Because this build is able to utilize 17 feats, and, by use of gear, a viable AC or DR or HP, I opted for HP on this build. There is a lot of room for play with enhancements, feats, and skills (UMD is possible on this build, as well as intimidate if you push it). Therefore, the general effectiveness of this build emerges on the basis of the situation – making it versatile, adaptive, and largely customizable. Unfortunately for me, it also makes stating some solid numbers rather difficult -- although I've done what I can.

(For those that are newer to following builds, I would suggest that you look at what aspects of the game are giving you the most trouble (stuns not landing as much as you'd like? feel as though an additional 20 HP would help? getting hit too much or not hitting enough? would like more divine healing?) and use enhancements as a way to give you the boost you need to, say tactics, or HP, or improved healing, etc.. Figure out where you feel you need the extra help, and don't be afraid to reset your enhancements.)

As soon as you consider enhancements to be flexible you quickly realise that there is basically no difference between your build and what you might have created if you followed Sinedist's directions for creating a 32 point variant of his build and took into account how the game has changed since he made it.

to use your comparison a 42 dc means everything non epic insta stun. and only the toughest epic fort mobs resist with any reasonable percent chance (ie echrono devils)
so we are really talking flavor here not comparative usefulness and since those same hard to stun mobs are the same hard to hit mobs (for the most part there are exceptions).. id rather hit and miss then never hit at all.

I really think you're overestimating the AC numbers of those high fort mobs. I'm quite certain that you will be able to leave power attack on in just about all circumstances and if you compare 17 starting strength to 18 starting strength you might end up with the same modifier anyway (dependent on gear obviously).

I would expect that the only time your build will have to consider turning power attack off by what I know of the AB of your build vs the AC of the mobs you will encounter everyone else in your group will also have issues so relevant AC debuffs will be applied in most situations.

1 3% of hp . /sigh. first of all this is a variable hp number .so this can not be correct .. seeing how i listed 3 separate base values and all. its precious that you do that but just say 22 hp. its simpler (or hey actually quote the hp number your basing it on) fyi percentages generally matter on to-hit and on saves. not so much on hp.

2. find a feat that will achieve this builds goals max speed / max stuns / max to hit/max hp .. that will achieve better and ill list it. i couldnt find one hope you can cause i always like better stuff.

Staying alive is generally a priority of most builds. Shadowfade will usually increase your survivability against physical damage (not spells) by 25%. 22 is 3.7% of 600, if you have over that then you're approaching 3%, it was just a guess as I was out and about on my iPhone.

Additionally, ninja-spy I will give you 1d6 extra sneak attack damage which is a pretty substantial DPS boost useful most of the time.

It's worthwhile to compare the usefulness of lightside buffs vs ninja-spy but with the change to fists of light (monk levels instead of character levels) and the desire to possibly hate tank; ninja-spy I is really the only choice. Unless APs are too tight? I haven't considered what would have to be sacrificed to pick up NSI.

Overall, this is an interesting customised update of the Godhand build but give credit where credit is due.

As a final addendum, a few extra points of wisdom will help hugely while leveling for AC and an undeveloped stunning fist DC (limited access to stunning wraps etc). Isn't ease of leveling one of the goals of your build?

Good luck with it
Wowo

[lopter]

if this was such an obvious godhand build/replacement why am i the first to post it 6? months later?

1. the focus is different as is. (crowd control stunner + hate tank vs general dpser and hate tank)

2. enhancements are different

3. 2 feats are different (while out of 17 thats not alot they show the different foci and most of the same feats are twf or to-hit damage related)

4. they focus on ac for tanking i focus hp/amp.

5. its obviously outdated (we both agree here i disagree i should have to credit something i never reference)

the only point of comparison is the split and the starting stats.

the split is the most ideal for any melee monk wanting a ton of feats.
and the stat distribution is obvious when you look at what you need.

so every build that ever uses twf fists with a 12ftr /8 mnk is a godhand variant?

and this is because he said you can change everything to whatever you need?

no. this build was developed totally separate of godhand with a separate focus..
I didnt even know what godhand was till i was running in a tod at 20 and someone asked me.

2 points of comparasion is not enough to justify calling it the same build. especially when they are both obvious points to use if you want a ftr/monk.

I use this build in epics my comments stem directly from epic play and my view on it only im sure theoretically
we can make some fluff numbers appear but mine stem from direct experience. you can miss and the ones you miss
are the ones likely to resist your stun (exceptions would be the fat guys(forget thier names) in house p)

dark monk would sacrifice somewhere thats a ton of ap needed for it and enhancements are really tight
sneak atk would be nice and i have a final life planned as dark monk. but as a new 20 monk light monk will
not only get into more raids but also be a larger party benifit.

as for leveling .. dont even bother to stun. by 10 your attack speed is so insane you kill stuff to fast to matter.
and before 10 its still pretty fast

1 final tanking point the heal is still minimum 1 per hit at 160ish hits thats 160ish per min heal off clr. along with a 25% mana buff for your clr you can tank a loooong time

[Phidius]

I went with 12 Fighter/7 Monk/1 Rog - the utility from Rogue + backstabbing was worth more to me than the extra die step.

I just wish I had gone Dwarf instead of Human - ah well, I get more healing amp for boss fights versus better stuns against trash.

[sirgog]

Dark monk has to be seen as superior for a 6 level monk splash due to the massive boost to survivability that shadow fade represents. Dropping from 5 toughness feats to 4 represents a 3% drop in HP but in almost all situations a 25% increase in survivability due to miss chance, it's a no brainer really unless light path is giving you something else that is crucial to your build? Sneak damage is nice too against stunned enemies.

You underestimate the impact the Light buffs have.

Keeping Aligning the Heavens up at all times is the equivalent of every single Sorc and FvS in your party having an Epic Ring of Spell Storing, and every Wiz/Clr having a two-charge one.

Grasp the Earth Dragon, if correctly used, makes anywhere that mobs spam Stuns a lot easier.


Dark brings a lot to the table too, but so does Light, and the choice between them isn't easy. In a lot of ways, it's like the difference between a barbarian and a Brd14/Bbn6 - the dark monk performs better on their own, the light monk gives up some personal power to boost the rest of the party/raid, and in different situations both of them can be better.

[XL_Jockey]

My planned TR is a Godhand variant focusing a little more on stun capability but taking the prereq feats for both Monk PrEs so that I could swap between them as needed. Want a Light Monk for ToD? I can do that. Want a tank for VoD? Yeah, I can do that too. Scheduling raids makes the switch between the two viable, IMO.

[Phidius]

My planned TR is a Godhand variant focusing a little more on stun capability but taking the prereq feats for both Monk PrEs so that I could swap between them as needed. Want a Light Monk for ToD? I can do that. Want a tank for VoD? Yeah, I can do that too. Scheduling raids makes the switch between the two viable, IMO.

If only you didn't have to use a Flawless Siberys to switch between Light and Dark when you're capped.

[XL_Jockey]

If only you didn't have to use a Flawless Siberys to switch between Light and Dark when you're capped.

I meant that I'd take both prereq feats while leveling, so it would just be an enhancement respec. I'm essentially spending a feat earlier so that I can swap PrEs later.

[Mister_Peace]

I meant that I'd take both prereq feats while leveling, so it would just be an enhancement respec. I'm essentially spending a feat earlier so that I can swap PrEs later.

The prereq feats are one issue, but you will have to swap Path of Harmonious Balance for Path of Inevitable Dominion, which is a feat swap.

[XL_Jockey]

The prereq feats are one issue, but you will have to swap Path of Harmonious Balance for Path of Inevitable Dominion, which is a feat swap.

Ah, that's right, I thought they were determined by enhancements, it's been so long since I had to make the choice! Well, that changes things. I guess that's one of the limitations of the Monk.

[Munkenmo]

if this was such an obvious godhand build/replacement why am i the first to post it 6? months later?

The godhand was first posted March 02 2010 you're far more than 6 months out.

The reason why you're the first to post it is because like wax said, most people that do builds look at the god hand, factor in the times and the changes and adjust, cause the adjustments are easy and obvious.

1. the focus is different as is. (crowd control stunner + hate tank vs general dpser and hate tank)

There's really reason both builds don't / can't do both

2. enhancements are different

Times have changed so have enhancements

3. 2 feats are different (while out of 17 thats not alot they show the different foci and most of the same feats are twf or to-hit damage related)

The differences in feats correlate very closely to the differences in mechanics since last march.

4. they focus on ac for tanking i focus hp/amp.

times have changed, there's more hp / amp gear than then (jidz tet ka / e gloves of claw)

5. its obviously outdated (we both agree here i disagree i should have to credit something i never reference)

It is outdated, but much like you I made a build I thought was unique, 12m 6rng 2fghter Thrudh has already posted one before me, whether I liked it or not, my build was a clone of his, just as yours is an updated version of Sinedsts

the only point of comparison is the split
and the starting stats.

the split is the most ideal for any melee monk wanting a ton of feats.
and the stat distribution is obvious when you look at what you need.

so every build that ever uses twf fists with a 12ftr /8 mnk is a godhand variant?

Yes and you answered why, the split is the same, the stats are the same, the only changes made are updates based around gear and feat changes when ingame mechanics change.

Whether you referenced Sinedst or not, you have caught his build up with the times and simply posted the changes those of us with the build have made.

[Soleran]

I had the same idea on my 36 point TR however I went Halforc starting stats were:

STR 18
Dex 16
Con 16
Wis 14

So rather then use WF and deal with ap's spent to boost stunning I used H-Orc to boost stun dc's with the boost to his str and much higher wisdom he has a past life fighter and monk.

Looks like a fun build and going h-orc saves you the trouble of fitting in heal amps also ninja spy shadow fade is a huge boost to survivability, you can get away with less hp having that up all the time.

[lopter]

I had the same idea on my 36 point TR however I went Halforc starting stats were:

I like this build you end up with +1 to stuns +3? for blow over the first life monk and as an over dps is higher due to horc enhancements and the rage benefit.
but it does require a double tr to do. i def will be looking at this for my later/last life

[unholy1]

@lopter
i made soemthign similar to this about the time godhand came out and in true to my style fashion i just made something myself. my premise at the time was the most attacks and the highest stun dc's - this was before the turbine TWF nerf / shroud lag issue. at the time i made kenseiII unarmed FTR12/MONK8. i ended using wind stance for faster sttacks along w fighter haste boostIII and power surge. i palyes around w light side and dark side both. i never tried ninja shadow fade but could still work that into my build. a few main differnces -1. is i made mine not have stunning blow and only fist. the dc on fist in water stance is 43 and 41 in wind. i found that to be plenty high enough to stun mobs very consistently - 2. i also only took combat expertise as opposed to PA for the ac is i get a self buffed somewhere around low to mid 60's which is meh soso for epic content. and three i made mine a halfling and tool all of the jorasch dragon marks which with the right gear gives me 9 power surges and 8 clicks of heal per rest all w HP arounf 580ish unbuffed which make a fairly stout melee class... the only real isssue iv eran into with him thus far is dps is a bit light - but then again i have no TOD rings yet so its still a work in progress. if you would like PM me and when i get to log in again ill write down the exact progression of things. thought id share since the main premise of yer build is stun. i still think that a pure monk can have higher stun dc and prob higher dps albeit at the time i made drunken master with haste boost 4 and GTWF and kensei power surge and windstance it was fast. its still fast jsut prics offhand attacks a little less.
i am interested in how the attacks per second are calculated as well was wondering if in those calculations mink wind stance was taken into consideration.