My first build - Shamen

[Iammeca]

This is my first attempt at a build and I would like peoples opinions.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Shamen 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Female
(1 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 402
Spell Points: 1239 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 5
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    21
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         18                    26
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               14                    19
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     4.5
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         4                    23
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  8                    10
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  4                     5
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Barbarian Tundra Lore I
Enhancement: Barbarian Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

[Luckness]

Looking over the list of cleric spells...
http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Cleric_spells

Most of the spells that have spell resistance applied also have a saving throw, and that is based on your wisdom. Your wisdom is not high for a cleric. You have also gimped your spell penetration by -3 by splashing 3 levels of another class. You've made a large investment of 12 AP and two feats in order to get +7 after all that. It doesn't make much sense to do so... after making the choices to splash other classes and reduce wisdom, it makes most sense not to invest into spell penetration like this. A divine caster can still be effective with buffs, heals, and no-resistance blade barriers (which also have a save for half damage but are still worth using).

The cleric gets significant power from the first level of Fighter or Barbarian, but it gets significantly less by the additional splash of two more levels. The first level gives martial proficiencies. On the fighter it gives a feat, and on the barbarian it gives 10% speed and a power attack enhancement. Taking an additional level of barbarian makes a tiny rage a little less small and gives another point of CON. Taking fighter too merely gives you a feat. I suggest figuring out whether you need the feat; if you do, take 1 level Fighter, and if you don't, take 1 level Barbarian. If you wanted both, I think 2 Fighter and 1 Barbarian would be better, for the second feat and the strength enhancement.

Speaking of feats...

Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration

These ones should go. Augment Summoning is a poor choice at level 20 on almost any build.

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting

These are really not that good for melee combat unless you have nothing better to spend the feats on. You will get much more out of using these two feats before buying the THF line: Power Attack (+5 damage, -5 attack) and Improved Critical: Slashing (extending the crit range of falchion, greatsword, and greataxe). You would only skip Power Attack if it were impossible to hit reliably with it on.

Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

This one isn't bad but it isn't critical either, much like the THF line of feats. You'd only take it after covering your essentials. You really need at least these two feats on your cleric: Empower Healing (qualifies for the PrE and with Radiant Servant II makes your heals 75% larger for 10 sp or less) and Quicken (makes sure your critical heals are not interrupted and cast faster). You will also most likely want Maximize, for casting with your blade barrier and for toggling on for your healing bursts (it gets applied for no SP cost to the spell like ability).

Toughness is always good. Thus to make your melee cleric you will want at least Toughness, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Empower Healing, Quicken, and Maximize. You have one more feat to spend as you wish (on Mental Toughness for example). If you splashed 1 Fighter and dropped a feat from this list (such as Power Attack or Maximize), or splashed deeper (2 Fighter), then you could fit in the THF line of feats for the glancing blow damage.

I'm not commenting on the skills or enhancements but will make one more, very important point: a cleric will generally want to put the ability score increases into Wisdom (for better offensive spellpower) or Strength (for better melee - both chance to hit and damage). You're going to want the increases in Strength. You also want to drop CON to 16 and increase STR to 20 at character creation. It is extremely important to hit (and do damage) if you are going to melee.

[Iammeca]

Thanks for the input I really appreciate it. I'll go to work redoing some of this.

I do have 1 question regarding Augment Summoning. I tend to do a lot of solo or small party adventuring and the Augment Summoning is there more for hirelings than summoned monsters. It is my understanding that augment summoning stacks with cast buffs and gives more of a chance for hirelings to open stat based switches etc. Is this true? Might it be good to have the AS at lower levels and switch it out with Fred later for something else?

Again, thank you for your input.

[Luckness]

It should do exactly what it says on the tin - add 4 to all abilities for summons (hirelings and cleric summon). If it doesn't it's a bug I don't know about. There's nothing wrong with leveling with the feat if you like to.

[Iammeca]

Thanks. Here is Shamen 2.0

Note: I plan to Use Augment Summoning to level up and switch it out with Luck of Heroes towards the end.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Shamen 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Female
(2 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 340
Spell Points: 1265 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 6
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    25
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    21
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               16                    21
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     4.5
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         2                    23
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  3                     5
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  9                    11
Listen                3                     5
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  5                     7
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration IV
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

[Luckness]

Here is what I would do, most notable differences:

- Ability increases in Strength
- Enhancements
- Took the THF line once splashing 2 Fighter

I might have taken more Orcish Power Attack enhancements if I thought you could get your hit high enough.

You can use Augment Summoning at level 3 if you like, and then change it for Two-Handed Fighting at level 12, still relatively cheap at Fred.

You can take Mental Toughness instead of Maximize if you don't care about blade barrier damage, its single most significant benefit. (The other thing it does is affect your bursts with Radiant Servant, but you may just want to use the yellow circle of healing.) You could use the SP due to the 3 levels splashed and melee cleric wisdom score.

You could swap the Charisma enhancements for Unyielding Sovereignty if you are comfortable with the number of turn undead attempts (Radiant Servant abilities) you get.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Shamen 
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Female
(2 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 1104 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 5
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              6                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     2
Bluff                -2                     0
Concentration         5                    24
Diplomacy            -2                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                     0
Heal                  2                     6
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate           -2                     0
Jump                  5                    10
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Iammeca]

Thank you so much for all your help. This really gives me something to work with.

I have just one more question, to help me understand. Why are the fighter levels added at levels 14 and 15 rather than earlier on?

[Luckness]

I want to take 12 levels of Cleric as soon as I can in order to get the Radiant Servant II prestige enhnacement, which holds a lot of the power for cleric.

The 2 fighter levels are both notable for the 2 free feats. Fighter levels are allowing us to take the THF line. The 3 THF feats are most valuable when you have the last one. You need 11 BAB for the last one, Greater Two-Handed fighting. Therefore it makes sense to wait until around level 14, when you get 11 BAB.

On the other hand, it's not much of a melee cleric with neither fighter nor barb, so I put the barb level first. You'll get the runspeed boost and barb sprint right away.

[unbongwah]

My take on this is a little different than Luckness's, but the basic idea is the same - i.e., STR-based BC - what changes are the feat & leveling order etc. Enhs can be tweaked; e.g., make room for Smiting line & use no-save light spells.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Female
(2 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 998 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 5
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

[Iammeca]

@Luckness - Thank you, that clarifies things.

@unbongwah - Thank you, for your input that gives me more to think about.