Lvl 10 Monk: Is my build optimal?

[darkniteyogi]

Hi. this is my 2nd toon, just to make sure he's not gimped. Im also not aware of the changes to the game over the months since i played him last December. Are the stats alright? And what direction do u think i need to take him?
thanks.
--------------------

class: monk
lvl: 10
race: elf
align: Lawful neutral

current stats:
str: 12
dex: 22
con: 12
int: 8
wis: 15
cha: 8

hp: 154
ki: 14/150
ac: 22 +2

saves:
fort: 8
reflex: 13
will: 9

BAB +7 +10
Spell res: 0
Fort: 0

Resistances: 4/4/4/4/4

----------------------------
Skills:
(Total Mod/Rank/Ability Mod/Misc Mod)

Balance 16 8 +6 +2
Bluff -1 0 -1 0
Concentration 14 11 +1 +2
Diplo -1 0 -1 0
Disable n/a
Haggle 1 0 -1 +2
Heal 2 0 +2 0
Hide 6 0 +6 0
Intimidate -1 0 -1 0
Jump 14 11 +1 +2
Listen 4 0 +2 +2
Move silently 12 6 +6 0
Open lock n/a
Perform n/a
Repair -1 0 -1 0
Search 1 0 -1 0
Swim 1 0 +1 0
Tumble 9 1 +6 +2
UMD 0 1 -1 0


Feats taken:
Improved two weapon fighting
stunning fist (not sure if taken or free)
toughness
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
weapon finesse

path feats:
path of inevitable dominion: fists of darkness
Curse of the Void

racial feats:
immunity to sleep
elven keen senses
enchantment save bonus

monk feats:
evasion
fast movement
dodge
improved evasion
wholeness of body
still mind
slow fall
purity of body
moment of clarity
meditation
flurry of blows
fast movement
AC bonus

Enhancements:
Elven Dexterity I
Monk: Air Special attacks: Static charge
Monk: Way of Air: Adept of Wind: Storm Strike II/Wind Stance
Monk: Animal paths: Way of the Clever Monkey I/II
Monk: Dark special attacks: touch of death
Monk: Water/Earth/Fire special attacks I
Racial Toughness I/II
Skill: Balance: Improved balance I/II
Skill: Concentration: Improved concentration I/II
Skill: Jump: Improved jump I/II
Skill: Tumble: Improved tumble I/II
Stat: Monk Wisdom I

[defen]

A finesse-based monk is certainly much weaker than a pure str or even str/wis monk. 12 con is also weak for any melee. I'd consider rerolling, preferably non-drow/elf. A (human) starting array of 16str/16dex/14con/14wis will serve you well. Your armor will suck if it doesn't already, so emphasize killing potential.

BTW, check the requirements for the prestige enhancements and take feats accordingly. Both Shintao and Ninja Spy are worthwhile.

[wigthemaster]

you need to say what your going for here, a dex/wis stunner monk certainly works, but as an elf it's less then it could be.

[darkniteyogi]

Thanks,
Yup. He is Ninja Spy.
The stats above are in Wind Stance. (+2 dex, -2 Con, -10 HP @ Lvl 10)

@ wigthemaster
I'm not going for anything right now. Is it too late to go for a stunning dex monk? or an AC monk? what race is best for this? human?

[darkniteyogi]

so i probably put one too many points in DEX. however, can i still put 3 level ups to STR, have a +6 Str enhancement, eat a +1/+2 tome to get it to 22/23, instead of rerolling.. & then trade Weapon finesse for something else

[waterboytkd]

You don't need to reroll.

It looks like you've got what you need for Ninja 1 and 2, so that's good. A lot of people will tell you that dex-based monks are gimpy and can't do anything. It's not true. My monk has been dex-based, and was taking aggro from barbs. Granted, that might say something about the barbs, but still...a lot of people don't believe that Grandmaster of Storms is that good. The 10% double strike is completely bonkers dps, especially when you consider how it interacts with your special attacks, and especially ToD. And again, considering that you will be often attacking stunned mobs, that 10% means a lot because of your Sneak Attack you'll get from Ninja.

That said, a strength-based monk in Grandmaster of Storms is the best dps, but it's to-hit suffers at end game/epics (that important +4 to a stat from a Grandmaster stance is not going towards your attack stat). Even if you're dex-based, though, don't ignore strength. My suggestion, put 6 points into your starting strength score (looks like you did 4), get the best tomes and stat-boosting gear for strength that you can, and take Power Attack. You end up losing out on only about 4 points per swing on str-based wind stance monks, which I feel is an acceptable loss for the extra 4 points to-hit (if you do epics; if you don't, i would go strength-based with a high enough dex to be in grandmaster of storms stance)

HOWEVER, your Con score is an issue. It hurts for two reasons: your hit points will suffer, and you can't get grandmaster of mountains, which gives access to the best fists (Earth 4 and 3, as they work on everything and can get boosted on crits). Get all the best Con gear and false life gear and just hp boosting gear you can. Also, a first-life monk tends to have an extra feat or two in there, so you could take a second toughness (monks get 10 feats--11 if you count the Path feat--and, as a dark monk, you usually take the 3 TWF feats, Stunning Fist, Dodge, imp crit (bludgeoning), powerattack, and at least one toughness, leaving 2 open feats; you're gonna want to take weapon finesse--which you did--and that other one could be a second toughness). And definitely take both toughness enhancements.

In short, no, I don't think your build is gimp. It won't be optimized, but with some work, not gimped. Your hp could be an issue, but one you could tackle and turn into a non-issue. Just don't ignore strength (I would at least put a level up point or, preferrably, eat a +2 tome so you can take Power Attack)!

[ainmosni]

so i probably put one too many points in DEX. however, can i still put 3 level ups to STR, have a +6 Str enhancement, eat a +1/+2 tome to get it to 22/23, instead of rerolling.. & then trade Weapon finesse for something else

23 str

+3 exc

+1 item (upgrade that +6 to +7)

27 str

+1 tome (upgrade +2 - +3)

28 str


hmmmm

in fire stance you could pull it off, but it'd be hardly optimal.

it'd be far less of a grind to just reroll.

the high dex would allow a higher reflex save and AC, but your saves will definitely not be a build weakness even on a str-based monk at endgame, and you can get the AC with more points into wisdom, with the neat little perk of adding to your DC's.

again, you could make it work, and enjoy your monk in all it's monkey glory, but you may end up thanking yourself later should you decide other stat distribution/race choices.

[Rusty_Can]

12 con is also weak for any melee.

12 Con (i.e. 6 build points) is considered acceptable on elf and drow characters, especially on 28 pts elves. However, according to his posts, it looks like he posted abilities in Wind Stance.

preferably non-drow/elf.

Aye. Elves don't make great monks: human, half-elves, warforged, dwarves, half-orc and halflings are better options.

Your armor will suck if it doesn't already, so emphasize killing potential.

Well, he won't meet the requirements for Combat Expertise (only 8 INT) but, with the right gear, his DEX and WIS might allow a workable AC for normal content.

current stats:
str: 12
dex: 22
con: 12
int: 8
wis: 15
cha: 8

hp: 154

Non optimal, but (borderline) workable for normal content:
- beef up: elves are squishy; Toughness feat, Toughness enhancements, gear providing Con, GFL, Toughness, Heavy Fortification, greensteel hp items;
- your Stunning Fist should "easily" achieve 35ish DC, which is plenty for a lot of content;
- with your DEX and WIS and some gear, you should be able to hit a workable AC; decent AC + some buffs (e.g. concealment) + Shadow Fade should allow you to stay alive;
- feat: get Power Attack to increase your damage output.

However, I wouldn't plan to run "tough" content with him.

[darkniteyogi]

Thanks, waterboy & Ainmosni!

I just looked over the Stances, and yes i think i can see how Str based grandmaster of Storms would be the highest DPS.

So really i just need minimum Dex of 18 & The rest STR.

Hows this for starting stats:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 8

Though is Wis really required in a monk? It only affects max Ki. And the only attacks that require it are stunning fist / Water unbalancing strike?

[waterboytkd]

Wis also affects your ToD save. I wouldn't dump it (or let it start below a 14). Are you a 28 point build? Because with a starting 12 dex, you aren't getting a 18 dex for GM of Storms without putting all your level ups into dex AND eating a tome. And you probably don't want to do that...

But if you're a 28 point build, you may want to consider going dex-based and taking finesse, as that's easier on your stat points, and you can still do great dps with the character (just not max monk dps). For instance:

28 point build, race halfling

STR 14 -2 = 12
DEX 14 +2 = 16
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 8

Those stats would be alright. Put your level up points into dex and use a str tome to get a high enough str for Power Attack. If you don't have tomes, you could always put a single level up into STR (probably your level 4 one) to qualify for Power Attack. It's that important.

Also, you could go dwarf, which would probably be more optimal:

STR 14
DEX 16
CON 14 +2 = 16
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 8 -2 = 6

With that, put all your level up points into dex. You could put 2 level up points into con to get the 18, but really, by that level, you'll start coming across +2 tomes, and could just hold out for a +2 con tome. Even plan on that for your 1750 favor...

Doing a STR based GM of Storm build, though, is really hard with a 28 point build. You're looking at letting your Con or Wis dip pretty low, and I think your character would just be stronger as a finesse build that doesn't dump Str. If you have 32 points, though, it's really not bad, with Horc and Helf being probably the best two races (Horc gets the Str bump which will help a lot with landing blows, but Helf can take the Rogue dilly, which will be INSANE with Ninja in terms of Sneak Attack--you'd be looking at 6d6 sneak attack damage). Other than those two, race is up to your, with each having some perk or another, but with drow being the worst, and elf being next worst.

[darkniteyogi]

Thanks again,
do you think the lvl 18 mountain stance is that important? how often do u use the stance, do u switch from the two alot? im assuming it can be used for: raids, bosses, being swarmed by mobs, anti-archers, kiting, so quite useful.

wind = offense, earth = defense. i never thought about taking more than one stance.

* only realized now that u need base stats to qualify for feats, so it cant include enhancement bonuses & equipment..

feats:
for a str based monk, how about taking both stunning blow and stunning fist? assuming they have separate cool down timers, and together with paralyzing handwraps.

cleave: cleave + paralyzing weapon has been working for me for my battle cleric. how is it for a monk? do they also generate more Ki by hitting more enemies?

how about specialized skill: concentration for +3 base Ki?

For a 28 pt build, it is possible to get him to both 18 dex & con with a couple of pts to spare with +2 tomes, or just exactly there with +1 tomes.

Human:
Str 15 (+2 enhancement increase) (+1 tome)
Dex 15 (+2 ability increase) (+1 tome)
Con 14 (+3 ability increase) (+1 tome)
Int 8
Wis 14 (+2 monk wisdom)
Cha 8

The half-elf sneak damage sounds great. i'd go human though. just could never get used to 'being' a dwarf or halfling, same as could never create a female character. .

[Rusty_Can]

Thanks again,
do you think the lvl 18 mountain stance is that important? how often do u use the stance, do u switch from the two alot? im assuming it can be used for: raids, bosses, being swarmed by mobs, anti-archers, kiting, so quite useful.

It depends; Mountain Stances III and IV, which require 16 and 18 (base + tomes) CON, were changed a couple of mods ago and they now provide +1 to critical multiplier on 19 and 20 rolls.

Several multi-classed builds (e.g. 12 monk - <something> - <something else>) use them for DPS; pure monks usually switch to them when they are getting hit no matter what and, thus, they need hp to soak up damage.

* only realized now that u need base stats to qualify for feats, so it cant include enhancement bonuses & equipment..

Ya, base + tomes + "level-ups" points.

feats:
for a str based monk, how about taking both stunning blow and stunning fist? assuming they have separate cool down timers, and together with paralyzing handwraps.

Yeah, they have different cooldowns; it works quite fine on half-orc (high STR), dwarves and Warforged (they get racial enhancements to combat maneuvers).

cleave: cleave + paralyzing weapon has been working for me for my battle cleric. how is it for a monk? do they also generate more Ki by hitting more enemies?

Never tried, but it's supposed to work that way. As a side note, iirc, Cleave would qualify your monk for Shintao.

how about specialized skill: concentration for +3 base Ki?

General consensus is: waste of a feat spot .

The half-elf sneak damage sounds great. i'd go human though. just could never get used to 'being' a dwarf or halfling, same as could never create a female character. .

If you go Ninja Spy and plan to solo, I suggest the Cleric dilettante feat: spending some APs (1 + 2 + 3), you will be able to use divine scrolls, such as Heal scroll (95% chances of success) and Raise Dead (100%).

For a 28 pt build, it is possible to get him to both 18 dex & con with a couple of pts to spare with +2 tomes, or just exactly there with +1 tomes.

Human:
Str 15 (+2 enhancement increase) (+1 tome)
Dex 15 (+2 ability increase) (+1 tome)
Con 14 (+3 ability increase) (+1 tome)
Int 8
Wis 14 (+2 monk wisdom)
Cha 8

Don't waste level-up points for CON; 14 base + 2 tome = 16, enough for Mountain Stance III. Imo, this is fine for 28 pts builds.

[elg582]

Aye. Elves don't make great monks: human, half-elves, warforged, dwarves, half-orc and halflings are better options.

On the contrary, elves make the very best monks:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=328377

[elg582]

Hi. this is my 2nd toon, just to make sure he's not gimped. Im also not aware of the changes to the game over the months since i played him last December. Are the stats alright? And what direction do u think i need to take him?
thanks.
--------------------

class: monk
lvl: 10
race: elf
align: Lawful neutral

current stats:
str: 12
dex: 22
con: 12
int: 8
wis: 15
cha: 8

There is nothing especially wrong with this build, except in the narrow sense that Turbine has made most things useless at end game; this will be great while leveling, but will probably start to feel weak around level 15, when AC stops mattering so much and raw DPS becomes more important (not that any ninja is exactly light on damage ).

You might consider a reincarnation to respec for STR instead of DEX (and can also upgrade you to 32-point).

Grab a +1 STR tome so you can get power attack, very important.

Grab a +2 CON tome so you can get Earth 3, that gets you an AC bonus, DR, and a higher crit multiplier.

I also like the first 2 levels of elf dragonmarks; displacement stacks with ninja fade (multiplicatively; together they give you 62.5% miss chance, not counting AC), and the long invisibility is nice for soloing explorers and some quests.

[darkniteyogi]

thanks elg,

@ elg, yeah, the shadow dragonmark feats crossed my mind.. so u get to do them 1x if u take 2 feats, 3x if u take the 3rd feat right? has it been a big deal for your monk? 1min per caster level ain't bad. Did you take all 3 feats?

I've been reading some posts about the stances and got the notion that wind stance doesn't fully stack with haste and/or fighter haste boost. They gave the 10% double strike instead.

Im having 2nd thoughts about Wind stance, perhaps Fire is better for DPS? Fire stance + Haste spells/pots/clickies
So switching between Fire and Earth stance, however, probably still a bad idea to dump DEX since i wouldnt be able to get the TWF line. Id best still be having all STR, DEX, CON & some WIS.

I'm digging Earth Stance the most. With having all the stats at 18, i would probably be able to test each stance at grandmaster and compare which i feel are best, or which 2 work best together. I'm also a fan of CON and wouldn't mind the extra HP.

I never actually used much Stunning Blow (probably still too low level) and wasnt really able to actually use Touch of Death much. I remember blaming my low Ki retention and generation. One thing i noticed if im not mistaken changing from last December was there are now easy to find +11 and +13 concentration gear (correct me if im wrong, not sure). At level 10, i can have my resting Ki at 24 or 26. That's not that far away from 50 of touch of death now. Thinking the Fire stance would reach this significantly faster too. Even with a Fort save, 250 is big.

[elg582]

thanks elg,

@ elg, yeah, the shadow dragonmark feats crossed my mind.. so u get to do them 1x if u take 2 feats, 3x if u take the 3rd feat right? has it been a big deal for your monk? 1min per caster level ain't bad. Did you take all 3 feats?

I take only the first 2, and with enhancements, you will wind up with 5 or 6 uses of displacement for a total of 10 min or so, plenty for most quests. The invisibility is 1 min/level, displacement is only 30 sec + something/level, comes out to 2 min at 20

I've been reading some posts about the stances and got the notion that wind stance doesn't fully stack with haste and/or fighter haste boost. They gave the 10% double strike instead.

Yea, I go to wind 3 for soloing, but stay in fire/earth in groups that have a caster to keep us hasted.

Im having 2nd thoughts about Wind stance, perhaps Fire is better for DPS? Fire stance + Haste spells/pots/clickies
So switching between Fire and Earth stance, however, probably still a bad idea to dump DEX since i wouldnt be able to get the TWF line. Id best still be having all STR, DEX, CON & some WIS.

No, you should still set DEX to 16, so you can get all the TWF line with a +1 tome, but STR at 14 or 16 with all level ups, 14 CON so you can get earth 3 with a +2 tome, and whatever is left into WIS (should be 14 on a 32-point elf).

I'm digging Earth Stance the most. With having all the stats at 18, i would probably be able to test each stance at grandmaster and compare which i feel are best, or which 2 work best together. I'm also a fan of CON and wouldn't mind the extra HP.

Heh, too many AP to have them all at once, and no point, really.

And while more HP is always nice, it's somewhat less efficient in this game; let's be honest, these guys make Monty Hall look like a miser My latest 18 dragonmarked elf monk has 400 hp with **** gear; no PUG expects more than that, and guildies know better, right?

I never actually used much Stunning Blow (probably still too low level) and wasnt really able to actually use Touch of Death much. I remember blaming my low Ki retention and generation. One thing i noticed if im not mistaken changing from last December was there are now easy to find +11 and +13 concentration gear (correct me if im wrong, not sure). At level 10, i can have my resting Ki at 24 or 26. That's not that far away from 50 of touch of death now. Thinking the Fire stance would reach this significantly faster too. Even with a Fort save, 250 is big.

Stunning blow I only recommend on warforged, half-orcs, and dwarves (they get enhancement bonuses); stunning fist is better for pure monk of any other race.

ToD is your money-maker; if you are fighting somethings vulnerable to it (and don't assume what is and isn't, it's weird), you shouldn't be using any other strikes, and only using ki for it and ninja fade. Be careful, though, because you can quite accidentally pull aggro from something big that way

From 9 until probably 15 or so (when you get gTWF for more attacks) you will want to use fire quite a bit, both for to-hit and ki generation. Concentration items are much more common, and there's some really nice monk gear out of the lordsmarch plaza quests.

[CSFurious]

i like my dex monks to be little ninjas who have the extra backstab