You can use elemental damage on the Shroud Crystal

[Uska]

u talking about the 3 over the door to get to the water to purify?

I think OP was talking about part 2 crystal in middle.

I use firewall in both cases works great

[Therigar]

the only reason my part 2 goes more than one rouind is because some moron kills the mobs incorectly

It is always the morons fault.

[MindCake]

That way, too, I can peek around the corner and report whether or not the puller's successfully pulled everything.

When I hear the lieutanants are dying, I move a few steps out and get ready to hit the crystal. One maximized/empowered lightning bolt from my air savant takes the crystal out.

Really?
I think I'm beginning to understand why some arcanes seem to be having the troubles with trash at the crystal.

Peek around the corner? Move into position at the last second? Whateverfor? The crystal doesn't attack you with eyebeams, uh... crystalbeams? Usually there's nothing there to hurt you, and if there is, I thought it was obvious you'd want to handle it sooner, rather than later.

When people go to the center to pull, I go with them, help finish off the trash, cast invisibility on myself and wait in the corner. Elemental-assigned person will hit the elemental, the other people hit other stuff, once they've left I move to the center and wait.

[mobrien316]

Really?
I think I'm beginning to understand why some arcanes seem to be having the troubles with trash at the crystal.

Peek around the corner? Move into position at the last second? Whateverfor? The crystal doesn't attack you with eyebeams, uh... crystalbeams? Usually there's nothing there to hurt you, and if there is, I thought it was obvious you'd want to handle it sooner, rather than later.

When people go to the center to pull, I go with them, help finish off the trash, cast invisibility on myself and wait in the corner. Elemental-assigned person will hit the elemental, the other people hit other stuff, once they've left I move to the center and wait.

If the caster just runs to the center instead of peeking around the corner, and one of the lieutenants is still there, sometimes you get the aggro and have to pull them all the way to the SW corner, then run back and hit the crystal.

Sometimes the person pulling the lieutenants knows what they are doing and all are gone by the time the caster gets to the middle. Sometimes the puller is less experienced than they let on, and when you get to the center one or more of the lieutenants are still there. When that happens most (if not all) casters will have to pull them rather than beat them down to 5% health and box them in until it is time to finish them off.

It is a far better idea to peek around the corner and see if all the lieutenants are gone rather than just run around the corner and wind up having to pull them yourself.

Have you ever been in a Shroud where a caster says, "Yeah, I can do the crystal" and when everyone is ready to drop the lieutenants someone says, "Wait a minute - no one is in the center! Where's the caster?" and the caster says he is in the corner helping to kill the mobs. Does everyone like having to wait? Or would they prefer the caster to be waiting in the center so he can hit the crystal as soon as the shield drops?

That's why I peek around the corner rather than running into the center and possibly delaying the entire group.

[MindCake]

If the caster just runs to the center instead of peeking around the corner, and one of the lieutenants is still there, sometimes you get the aggro and have to pull them all the way to the SW corner, then run back and hit the crystal.

Sometimes the person pulling the lieutenants knows what they are doing and all are gone by the time the caster gets to the middle. Sometimes the puller is less experienced than they let on, and when you get to the center one or more of the lieutenants are still there. When that happens most (if not all) casters will have to pull them rather than beat them down to 5% health and box them in until it is time to finish them off.

It is a far better idea to peek around the corner and see if all the lieutenants are gone rather than just run around the corner and wind up having to pull them yourself.

Have you ever been in a Shroud where a caster says, "Yeah, I can do the crystal" and when everyone is ready to drop the lieutenants someone says, "Wait a minute - no one is in the center! Where's the caster?" and the caster says he is in the corner helping to kill the mobs. Does everyone like having to wait? Or would they prefer the caster to be waiting in the center so he can hit the crystal as soon as the shield drops?

That's why I peek around the corner rather than running into the center and possibly delaying the entire group.

Uh what?

If the lieutenants are dying, and you move to the center only then, and then discover one of them has never been pulled, then you're up for round two.
In that case, it'd be pretty **** better if you had moved into the center 4 minutes earlier and discovered the failed pull. Slap it with a magic missile, pull it to the group, have someone take the aggro, go back to the crystal, which shouldn't take longer than preparing the newly found guy.

Have you ever been in a Shroud where a caster says "Yeah, I can do the crystal" and when the lieutenants are dropped everyone is like "crystal crystal crystal", and then Kasquik is like "Yarrr, yarrr, Kasquik the mighty has returned!", and the caster is like "Sorry, there was a trash devil in the middle." and everyone is like "*sigh*"?

[Cauthey]

I'm with Mobrien on this one. Shedding aggro is not always a piece of cake, especially with the devil, as he seems to teleport around randomly to everyone that he knows is "there." Also especially with a less than experienced puller (as Mobrien said). I would rather never be "there" in the first place. Hence the peeking.

Peeking around the corner doesn't give me trouble with trash mobs. Not sure how our explanations indicate that we (or other arcanes) have trouble with trash. That was a strange remark.

[mobrien316]

Uh what?

If the lieutenants are dying, and you move to the center only then, and then discover one of them has never been pulled, then you're up for round two.
In that case, it'd be pretty **** better if you had moved into the center 4 minutes earlier and discovered the failed pull. Slap it with a magic missile, pull it to the group, have someone take the aggro, go back to the crystal, which shouldn't take longer than preparing the newly found guy.

Have you ever been in a Shroud where a caster says "Yeah, I can do the crystal" and when the lieutenants are dropped everyone is like "crystal crystal crystal", and then Kasquik is like "Yarrr, yarrr, Kasquik the mighty has returned!", and the caster is like "Sorry, there was a trash devil in the middle." and everyone is like "*sigh*"?

Sigh...

Rather than running into the center to show I"m not afraid of crystalbeams or whatever, I peek around the corner. literally a step or two away from where I need to be in order to take out the crystal. That way I can see if the puller or pullers left someone behind. If the "someone" is a trash mob, I take them out myself. If it is a lieutenant, I let the leader or puller know.

If, on the other hand, I just blinding run into the middle, intending to stand directly underneath the crystal for some reason, and one or more of the lieutenants has not been pulled, I will likely get the aggro and have to pull them myself all the way back to a corner. Since the person assigned to the crystal (me!) is now back at the SW corner with his mob in tow, it will take longer for the party to complete stage two.

[MindCake]

I'm with Mobrien on this one. Shedding aggro is not always a piece of cake, especially with the devil, as he seems to teleport around randomly to everyone that he knows is "there." Also especially with a less than experienced puller (as Mobrien said). I would rather never be "there" in the first place. Hence the peeking.

Th devil has random aggro, so yeah.

Peeking around the corner doesn't give me trouble with trash mobs. Not sure how our explanations indicate that we (or other arcanes) have trouble with trash. That was a strange remark.

In my slightly over 40 runs through the Shroud, I've seen the dedicated crystal killer have trouble with the trash in the center about 2 or 3 times.
So your explanations didn't give me that idea, I already knew it happens sometimes. I just couldn't figure out how it's possible.

But with your explanations I realized there may be people that do not wait by the crystal, and instead wait somewhere else, and only run to the center RIGHT as it's about time to blast it... which leaves them open for any number of surprises along the way. Now, I'm not saying you in particular ever had that problem, maybe your corner peeking technique is flawless and you have a good +spot item and so on, but other people may not be as careful, not as thorough, not as equipped, or are tired and fail to check some nook or just learned by imitating someone doing that properly and are following through the motions not having the clue they need to actually peek around the corners, or whatever, no idea, but apparently it happens.

Once the pull has been made and you're hiding behind some wall nearby, there are three basic possibilities.
1) The center actually is clear.
2) There's some trash left in the center.
3) Some of the four weren't actually pulled and still linger in the center. With or without leftover trash.

Now, staying in your safe spot till the last moment gives you these results:
1) No problem. I mean, unless you mix up left and right, slip, spill your drink, toggle your hotbars in the hurry or something silly like that.
2) Depending on how prepared you are, there may be problem, the trash may trip you, block your rays, and if you spend a second to wail it, well, you're one second behind.
3) You run up to the crystal and find the redname and the shield still up. Back to square 1, except now you have the aggro.

Meanwhile, going to the center gives you these results.
1) Tap one/two buttons once the shield is down.
2) Clear the trash, and then tap one/two buttons once the shield is down.
3) Tell the group to get someone to pull it properly, go back to the center and then tap one/two buttons once the shield is down.

Seeing how there's no scenario where it'd be advantageous to wait somewhere else, it didn't occur to me someone would do that. And here I find a sorcerer(maybe two) who waits someplace else, and only moves into position after the lieutenants start dying. A real eye opener.


EDIT:

Sigh...

Rather than running into the center to show I"m not afraid of crystalbeams or whatever, I peek around the corner. literally a step or two away from where I need to be in order to take out the crystal. That way I can see if the puller or pullers left someone behind. If the "someone" is a trash mob, I take them out myself. If it is a lieutenant, I let the leader or puller know.

So, after you've done that and you "know" the center is clear, why not go there?

I mean, if everything was pulled properly, you peeked, you checked, why not?

If, on the other hand, I just blinding run into the middle, intending to stand directly underneath the crystal for some reason, and one or more of the lieutenants has not been pulled

Then you'd discover it at the beginning of the round when it can be fixed, rather than at the end where it makes you go for another round.

[Torkzed]

I used to stack a few firewalls and call it good. Since going water savant, I no longer carry FW, but a max, empowered polar ray takes it down in one shot 99% of the time. Force is way too slow for me, but maybe if someone is force specced it would be acceptable?

[Failedlegend]

That doesn't work so well anymore.

The reason why loading up the crystal with firewalls was so nice was that it took damage from every one of those firewalls as soon as the crystal manifested/shield dropped. It was destroyed instantly with no chance of bosses respawning.

Also, the walls stayed there for a while, so you could drop 3 firewalls on the crystal and then go kill the elemental while the walls waited patiently for the shield to drop.

After U9, Wall of Fire lasts only 30 seconds, can't be extended and the crystal won't take damage as soon as it appears because of the "entering the firewall" saving throw. After that first 2 second delay, only one firewall will actually have an effect on the crystal, so it will take a while to burn up.

After U9, direct damage spells like Chain Lightning, Disintigrate, Polar Ray, etc. are much more effective against the crystal than Wall of Fire.


Wall of Fire is why so many of the Shrouds that I PUG end up going a second round in part 2 - because the casters can't let go of what used to be a great spell.

I more tired of BEING the caster doing the crystal and getting yelled at for NOT using firewall.

I swap between Acid/Cold & Air/Cold Spec and my firewall is nigh useless...even when I was fire spec firewall just doesn't last long enough and I usually destroyed the crystal with disintegrate before the first tick of the firewall anyways and that's IF I could time it just right so its still around by the time people finish of the nameds.

It's turned me off ever pugging shroud. Too many people screaming at me to "Know how to do my role" when I easily get the crystal for on the first time with a single disintegrate claiming that can somehow cause a wipe. I guess some people don't even know about U9 or something.

[mobrien316]

So, after you've done that and you "know" the center is clear, why not go there?

I mean, if everything was pulled properly, you peeked, you checked, why not?


Then you'd discover it at the beginning of the round when it can be fixed, rather than at the end where it makes you go for another round.

<Sigh>

Yes. I peek and see if anything is there. If it is clear, take the one or two steps necessary to take out the crystal. If it is not clear and still full of trash, I clear it. If it still has one or more lieutenants in it, I tell the leader or the puller.

If I run into the middle without stopping and peeking the chance of something happening that delays completion of part two is greater than if I stop and peek to see what, if anything, is there. I don't see any reason not to peek around the corner before you run in there. It only takes a moment and could help prevent having to fight some or all of the lieutenants more than once. Taking a moment that is easily spared in order to possibly prevent wasting another few minutes seems like a good use of time to me. But maybe that's just me...

I don't know why this idea bothers you so, but since you seem to equate "peeking" with "hiding" out of sight of the crystal without ever bothering to check what's in the middle, I thought I would take one more shot at clarifying for you.

[gloopygloop]

I more tired of BEING the caster doing the crystal and getting yelled at for NOT using firewall.

I tend to kill the elemental more often than I end up killing the crystal, but I kind of have the same attitude for both jobs.

"I'm going to kill the [elemental/crystal/whatever], so DON'T F-ING TOUCH IT AND LEAVE ME THE F ALONE and I'll kill it when it's time."

Thankfully, I usually end up with at least a few people that I know and that know me when I PUG a Shroud, so when I say, "Fire is prepped" and Fire's still at 50%, they believe me and they abuse the person who gets all antsy because Fire is still at 50% instead of *****ing at me.

I will admit to killing fire *way* too early a couple of times while I got used to the post-U9 spell changes, though. That's why I let him sit at around 50% now when I prep him.

[MindCake]

<Sigh>

Yes. I peek and see if anything is there. If it is clear, take the one or two steps necessary to take out the crystal.

That's not what you said the first time, and also not the position I was arguing against.

When I hear the lieutanants are dying, I move a few steps out and get ready to hit the crystal. One maximized/empowered lightning bolt from my air savant takes the crystal out.

I was arguing against this. Sorry, I'm not _that_ good at reading minds over the internet to know you meant something else.

[mobrien316]

That's not what you said the first time, and also not the position I was arguing against.


I was arguing against this. Sorry, I'm not _that_ good at reading minds over the internet to know you meant something else.

Is there any substantive difference between the two?

If I peek around the corner and see it is clear, does it matter one bit if I move two steps then, or wait until the lieutenants start dying to take two steps?

The only difference in my experience is that if you are in a group with poor communication, or a number of inexperienced characters, the chances of one or more of the lieutenants making it back before they all are killed is higher. Since that happens at least some of the time, I often wait until I hear two or three of the lieutanants have died before moving two steps into a position where they will see me and aggro on me when they come back to life. Hence my original statement:

When I hear the lieutanants are dying, I move a few steps out and get ready to hit the crystal. One maximized/empowered lightning bolt from my air savant takes the crystal out.

I don't really think it required the ability to read minds in order to understand what I wrote, but I guess for you it did. I will try to be clearer from now on. Or maybe you could just refrain from arguing against things other people wrote until you clarify what they meant. Just a suggestion.

[Therigar]

I used to stack a few firewalls and call it good. Since going water savant, I no longer carry FW, but a max, empowered polar ray takes it down in one shot 99% of the time. Force is way too slow for me, but maybe if someone is force specced it would be acceptable?

IIRC force spec works on Disintigrate. Disintigrate, Polar Ray, Chain Lightning -- nearly any ray or bolt spell backed by the matching caster specialization -- will break the crystal in part 2 in 1 shot when maximized and empowered.

For players concerned with speed and returning lieutenants it is better to use these types of spells.

[gloopygloop]

The only difference in my experience is that if you are in a group with poor communication, or a number of inexperienced characters, the chances of one or more of the lieutenants making it back before they all are killed is higher. Since that happens at least some of the time, I often wait until I hear two or three of the lieutanants have died before moving two steps into a position where they will see me and aggro on me when they come back to life.

I like getting lieutenant aggro as soon as possible if one or two of them comes back to life so that I can drag them back to the party faster and get that part done faster. You might think that a couple of seconds doesn't make a difference, but if fire or cat died and came back, there's a decent chance that the party could re-kill it before the other lieutenants come back to life - as long as someone drags them back to the party FAST.

[MindCake]

If I peek around the corner and see it is clear, does it matter one bit if I move two steps then, or wait until the lieutenants start dying to take two steps?

Yes.
If you wait, you rely on your "peek" to be correct, risking a couple minutes of delay if you missed something.
Sure, it's a small risk for you, but pile enough of small risks, and suddenly things start coming apart at the seams.

[mobrien316]

Yes.
If you wait, you rely on your "peek" to be correct, risking a couple minutes of delay if you missed something.
Sure, it's a small risk for you, but pile enough of small risks, and suddenly things start coming apart at the seams.

I also wrote in my original post that I position my camera back so I can see everything. What I term a "peek" is actually me standing around the corner, but still able to see everything near the crystal without anything near the crystal being able to see me.

But since it is apparent you cannot simply apologize for jumping to conclusions about what was in a couple of earlier posts before deciding to argue with them, I will simply concede and agree that whatever way you do things is clearly superior to whatever way everyone else in the DDO universe does things.

You win. Your way is better and everyone else's is inferior.

[MindCake]

But since it is apparent you cannot simply apologize for jumping to conclusions

Praytell what are the conclusions I should be apologizing for jumping to?

I mean, when someone says
"I wait, and when it's time to do [something] I move into position and do it".
Am I somehow wrong to assume they were waiting in a place different from the one they need to be at to do the [something]? Is that the thing I should be apologizing for?

[gavijal]

empower+max+ polar ray on wather savant, and work in 90% if not just frost lace after . Done it 50 times