Top Monk Damage Project

[butlerfamilywa]

Also to note, I did quite a few calculations on the DPS Profile of what a Monk can put out off their Ki Strikes... which can be seen at

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=265379

However, these figures were done prior to Earth IV stance adding in a higher Crit Multiplier... so they will not be 100% correct.


Also to note... Anyone have a thought on how duel Dream Edges with Earth IV stance would do, if both have the random modifier of Vorpal?

Figure a Monk wouldn't take IC:Slash just for this weapon, but What IF?

Base Weapon:
+5
1d6
19-20x3
BodyFeeder
Maiming
Destruction
Vorpal

Add in Earth IV stance, that becomes a 1d6 19-20x4 (3d6 for maiming)

Just a thought


Monk Weapons Are:
Handwraps
Kama's
Quarterstaves

Monk Weapons CAN be:
Longswords
Shortswords
Bows


Item's of Note would be:

Bow of Sinew, a Monk in Earth IV stance without IC:Ranged would receive a damage profile of...
1d8 19-20x5 (Stance and Bow Effects stack), would need to have bow proficiency as well as Zen Archery.

Epic Sting, While in Earth IV Stance, and having Ninja Spy I & II, you would have a profile of..
2d12 17-18 x2, 19-20x3

[elg582]

As an alternative to 12M/7F/1Ro, I've been having a lot of fun playing around with 12M/6Ra/2Ro.

The ranger levels give me:

• Ram's Might: +2 Str and +2 damage, stacks with basically everything
• Favored Enemies: +6 damage versus two types of monsters (Evil outsiders and whatever)
• Tempest 1: +10% offhand attack chance (this works out to 5.6% more offhand attacks compared to a pure monk)

You're right that haste boost is awesome. Rogue gives me Haste Boost 1, which makes giving up the fighter levels less painful.

Tempest doesn't work with unarmed.

Not that your build is bad; tempest with long- or shortswords (depending on your race) works quite nicely.

[AtomicMew]

Maximum DPS possible unarmed build?

I'm pretty sure it would be a prodigy build Half-orc 12 ranger (tempest II) / 7 rogue (assassin I) / 1 monk.

286.54 attacks/minute while haste boosted, 4.78 attacks/second. Compare that to ... 99.1 attacks/minute for an eSoS barbarian (1.65 attacks/second). When haste boosts run out it drops to 225.38 attacks/minute.

The above build can get 10 haste boosts/day. The build has 5d6+9 sneak attack damage. The level split gives a maximum return on investment for your on-hit affects like holy/flaming/shocking burst with the high attacks/minute.

In contrast, a pure shintao monk is just not max DPS.

Not saying the prodigy isn't a great build, but there are two builds I think possibly have better DPS. 1) Unarmed assassin (19 rogue/1 monk) should be clear is far ahead. But also 2) 12 monk/7 rogue/1 fighter (dark monk, ToD, earth III) would give the prodigy a run for it's money.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Handwraps~+5 Acid Burst Handwraps of Stunning/Festival Icy Burst/Force Critical.

I though Acid Burst was unavailable on random weapons. Did this change recently? You could put acid burst on the FB ring and get Shockingburst HW since you are a Shintao.

[DragonTroy]

I though Acid Burst was unavailable on random weapons. Did this change recently? You could put acid burst on the FB ring and get Shockingburst HW since you are a Shintao.

look in your local auction house, im sure you'll find acid burst weapons

[DragonTroy]

Tempest doesn't work with unarmed.

Not that your build is bad; tempest with long- or shortswords (depending on your race) works quite nicely.

the tempest ac bonus does not work with unarmed. the 10% offhand does work. people wouldnt have a build that takes advantage of that if it didnt work

[Avidus]

look in your local auction house, im sure you'll find acid burst weapons

Unless this way changed VERY recently and quietly randomly generated acid burst weapons do not exist.
Acid touch and acid yes. Acid Burst no. (there are a few named weapons with acid burst though)

It would be cool if they did change it and while they are at it they can combine screaming and thundering to sonic and sonic burst.

[Kinerd]

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just leave.

I really have no idea what you're getting at here. 10% of your attacks are crits. Your critical range is 19-20 and you use a 20 sided dice. 2 / 20 = 10%. Adding a Bloodstone is throwing good money after bad. You would be much better off with a Litany of the Dead (something that adds damage on every hit) because you produce hits at a higher than usual rate. Play to your strengths rather than your weaknesses.

Maximum DPS possible unarmed build?

I'm pretty sure it would be a prodigy build Half-orc 12 ranger (tempest II) / 7 rogue (assassin I) / 1 monk.

286.54 attacks/minute while haste boosted, 4.78 attacks/second. Compare that to ... 99.1 attacks/minute for an eSoS barbarian (1.65 attacks/second). When haste boosts run out it drops to 225.38 attacks/minute.

The above build can get 10 haste boosts/day. The build has 5d6+9 sneak attack damage. The level split gives a maximum return on investment for your on-hit affects like holy/flaming/shocking burst with the high attacks/minute.

In contrast, a pure shintao monk is just not max DPS.

The Prodigy is the fastest attack rate, but the Black Lotus ends up being more DPS: it still attacks very quickly and has huge amounts of SA damage. Obviously this means it falls behind on SA immune, though.

I foresee a 18/2 Dark Monk/Fighter Ninja Spy II, Half-Elf with Rogue Feat, in Earth IV stance with the Crane Animal Path, Wielding +5 Align Burst Silver/Cold Iron Handwraps of Greater Monster Bane, Str focused Wisdom Build, as the highest DPS Monk build currently...

If you are not a Grandmaster in a Stance, You're not a Monk build in my eyes...

And I say 2 levels of Fighter for +1 Str, Fighter Haste Boost, 48 more HP's over pure Monk, which would be 2d10 vs a 2d12. Avg 11 dmg vs Avg 13 dmg, which is more than made up for by the use of the Fighter Haste Boosts on boss monsters, where it actually really matters.

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

Tempest doesn't work with unarmed.

I recently reached level 14 on my exploiter. Using unarmed, I attacked the training dummy 50 times and saw two hits 50 times. I am very confident that Tempest's offhand process works with unarmed.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The Prodigy is the fastest attack rate, but the Black Lotus ends up being more DPS: it still attacks very quickly and has huge amounts of SA damage. Obviously this means it falls behind on SA immune, though.

I do love the Black Lotus too, fair to say that I love most unusual unarmed builds. The impression that I got from the OP was that he wanted to get a maximum return on the investment of getting various gear which provides on-hit affects. Assuming maximum-epic-uber gear does the Black Lotus still stay in front against 50% fort bosses? (By this I mean +5 holy silver threaded handwraps of GEOB + festival icy burst + force ritual + holy burst ring + anarchic burst ring + red dragonscale + maximum strength + maximum damage boosts vs an enemy with 0 resistances, 50% fort). What about adding damage from an epic thornlord when manyshot off timer though maybe that is lower than unarmed damage?

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

Thank you, saves me from saying it.

I recently reached level 14 on my exploiter. Using unarmed, I attacked the training dummy 50 times and saw two hits 50 times. I am very confident that Tempest's offhand process works with unarmed.

Thank you, saves me from saying it.

If you are not a Grandmaster in a Stance, You're not a Monk build in my eyes...

What makes a monk is different for everyone. I've thought about this a bit but what it's come down to for me is that the only thing that really defines a monk is the unarmed attack style. Hence, I'd consider any build with at least 1 level of monk that attacks unarmed most of the time to qualify to compete in any competition designed for monks.

Just about everything else a monk gets is quite intangible and doesn't make any significant difference on the overall playstyle of a monk. Abundant step is maybe an exception, though, I've never found myself using this in combat all that much.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I was thinking more about this.

In a 10 minute period (600 seconds);
Black Lotus (half-orc, max strength, quickdraw, 19/1)
Boosted attack speed: 147.5*1.825/3*10=897.29
Time lost to activation: 10*.5=5 seconds
Leftover: 111.3*1.825/60*(600-20*10-5)=1337.23 (omg)
Total=2234.52 attacks

The Prodigy (half-orc, max strength, quickdraw, 12/7/1)
Boosted attack speed: 141.5*2.025/3*10=955.125
Time lost to activation: 10*.5=5 seconds
Leftover: 111.3*2.025/60*(600-20*10-5)=1483.79
Total= 2438.92

Therefore, if the damage from the difference in attacks (204.4) is greater than the extra sneak damage of the Black Lotus then the Prodigy will be in front?

Black Lotus gets 31 extra sneak damage (13d6+12 vs 5d6+9) but only gets 60% of that vs 50% fort bosses (with opportunist) for 18.6. Multiplied by 2234.52 gives 41562.072. So, The Prodigy would have to do an average of 203.37/hit to do more damage (it's weird how close to it is to the difference in attacks).

Fair to say, this isn't possible. Though, it's not by much.

A fully geared prodigy can do ~110 damage/hit against a 50% fort boss.

That puts The Prodigy about 30 DPS behind a Black Lotus against 50% fort enemies. Also, most of the Black Lotus' DPS is dependent on not having aggro; as soon as you do so much damage as to get aggro your DPS is in big trouble (not to mention being a squishy rogue). Chances are if you find yourself having to activate diplomacy or swap DPS items for -threat items then the Prodigy will win.

Not sure how some epic thornlord manyshot action would fit into the calculations.

[AtomicMew]

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

That's true for wind IV vs. earth IV, but that's a silly comparison. There is very little current reason to go for tier IV stances, considering how much more DPS you gain from multiclassing.

A better comparison is earth III vs. wind III

Wind III gains a total damage bonus of: 187.5/180 = 4.17%
Earth III vs. zero fort gains a total multipliable damage of 23/21 = 9.5%
Earth III vs. 50 fort gains a total multipliable damage of 21/20 = 5%

Wind III probably still wins by a very marginal amount against 50 fort with no outside factors, but the DPS difference is so close that earth III is very, very clearly the better stance. Outside factors being inspire courage, song of recklessness, favored soul fortification debuff - all of these benefit earth more than they benefit wind against 50 fort and push earth back in front at some point.

This is all before considering secondary effects: earth has DR and +CON. This is so much better than what wind has to offer it isn't even funny.

[butlerfamilywa]

The Dr/-, the natural armor bonus, extra con... there is a lot that earth has to offer that many people don't really take the time to factor in.


Let's say you run with a party that actually does what it should, meaning debuffing bosses. When I was running as a Shintao Monk in Earth IV stance, I was constantly using the 'Jade Strike' debuff on bosses, paired with the favored soul's champion crown which I was usually blessed with having, kept the fort on 99% of the bosses we fought at 25% or 0%.

Granted, if you're just wanting to look at numbers, a 10% double-strike will out damage what the extra tier in crits can give you.. however if you factor in the variables, they are pretty much on even ground. Wind IV is better if you need the dex and don't usually have a haste bot/clickies/pots... where-as the Earth IV stance is better if you've splashed at least 1 level of another class (8/- DR vs 10/epic dr), plus natural armor 4, 60 hps over Wind IV, 3 less ac, 3 less reflex save ect... I will never go back to Wind IV...


I've debated adding in Grandmaster of Oceans (Tier IV) for solo'n, pair'd with mobility when I do decide to go 18/2 Monk/Fighter or 18/1/1 Monk/Fighter/Rogue (UMD/Traps for Solo'n). Granted this would lower the BaB to 19 instead of 20 when Centered, however being able to handle Traps in Epics that are difficult to bypass, as well as having no fail on any scrolls you'll need is a big benefit to what I see going on with the Monks that I play.

Pair Mobility and the extra 8 AC added from Ocean IV stance, gives you a raised 12 AC until you take an action, plus 3 more ac over what Earth IV has (4 wisdom, 2 dex) which can put you up into the mid 90's on a great monk build. Thats 15 AC higher than what my Monk Eldanti has (self-buffed with recitation as shortest bonus) 84 AC.. allowing me to crank to 99 self in Epics.

Granted this has nothing to do with max dps as this post states, but its just thoughts and ideas.


I've always felt Monks make a wonderfully versatile building platform, being able to swap stances depending on what you need/want from your monk...

For those wondering, Jade Strike is a Shintao Monk attack that is based off Wisdom. It comes with Shintao Monk II, which is level 12. DC is 10 + Wis Mod + Monk Level (on a 36 wis monk = 43)

You perform a melee attack that is anathema to tainted creatures, that increases their physical damage vulnerability by 10% and reduces their fortification by 25%. A successful Will save negates this effect (DC = 10 + Wisdom Modifier + your monk level). This ability only functions on aberrations, extraplanar creatures that are not classified as 'Lawful Outsiders', and undead, and counts as a Light move. Creatures that are both extraplanar and either aberrations or undead receive double this effect. On critical hits, a tainted target will be locked in a tomb of jade on a failed Will save (DC = 10 + Wisdom Modifier + your monk level). Extraplanar aberrations or undead must succeed at two consecutive Will saves to avoid their fate.

Granted this ability does not affect all outsiders, Lawful Outsiders are not affected, however the Chaotic Outsiders, such as DQ, and the Abashai I believe are. Also Abbot would receive a -50% Fort from this attack, added with the Favored Souls Debuff, a Rogue with the correct feats would be getting their sneak attack damage.

I'm honestly tempted to go back to being a light monk and just staying that way. Yes ToD does add more Damage than anything a light monk could put out, however... It comes down to the statement about bards.. do we factor in the bards damage songs into the bards dps, or into everyones? Do we factor in the situational -25% fort +10% damage (-50% fort +20% damage vs undead/abberations) to the monk's dps calculations, or just into everyones?

Of note, FvS AoV Pre allows for 'up-to' 50% off a monsters Fort, add in the Jade strike's -50% to undead's Fort, that gives a total of -100% fort vs certain Undead monsters... not useful?

[butlerfamilywa]

I take that back, Devils are considered Lawful Evil Outsiders, which would be your Abishai, Bearded Devil [Barbazu], Horned Devil (Suulomades), Orthon, Pit Fiend (Arraetrikos, Horoth), Succubus.. The majority of the Raid bosses you fight currently, so the Jade Strike is useless on most Raid bosses currently except for...

Black Abbot
Marilith (Demon Queen)

Some regular quest monsters it works on of note..

Sorjek (Reavers Reach)
Djinn (EVoN 6)
Elementals & Mud Men (Fathoms the Depths)

Aberrations are:
Beholder, Dream Reaver, Drow Scorpion [Scorrow], Mind Flayer [Illithid], Rust Monster, Taken, Will-o'-Wisp

Maybe a big part of Update 11.. Not sure at this time, but with the focus of U9 & U10 being Aberration Creatures, this might lead to Shintao's being more useful in any upcoming raids for their Jade Strike.

[grandeibra]

Shade:

Warlock Sobrien, No Dr, No fort, no lightning resistance. (same as most trash, or some bosses like abishai devastator)

Fara s the OP claim about monks being #1 dps.. lol. The DPS challenge shows otherwise.

Monks do have great dps on 100% fort targets. Vs critable mobs they fall very very far behind

The obvious truth is that the warlock in Shade's barbarian dps challenge is very far from dps vs "most trash" and "some bosses". How common is a mob that lets you crit it at will (zero fort) but has 100% sneak immunity? Still cracks me up that Shade keeps trying to use his contrived dps challenge to show something that it obviously was created not to show ^^

Shade's barbarian dps challenge shows nothing about whether any of the many mix-classed monk builds in this thread do good or bad dps compared to barbs in REAL group dps vs red nameds.

[Kinerd]

Not sure how some epic thornlord manyshot action would fit into the calculations.

I believe grodon9999 did some analysis on that front when he was comparing Tempest and AA rangers. It's conceivable that his methodology could be applied to this situation as well.

That's true for wind IV vs. earth IV, but that's a silly comparison. There is very little current reason to go for tier IV stances, considering how much more DPS you gain from multiclassing.

The build in question was an 18 monk 2 fighter. I respectfully submit that it would be silly to do any other comparison.

Also Abbot would receive a -50% Fort from this attack, added with the Favored Souls Debuff, a Rogue with the correct feats would be getting their sneak attack damage.

Unfortunately the Abbot (if he's like other undead) is immune to sneak attacks in addition to having 100% Fort.

I take that back, Devils are considered Lawful Evil Outsiders, which would be your Abishai, Bearded Devil [Barbazu], Horned Devil (Suulomades), Orthon, Pit Fiend (Arraetrikos, Horoth), Succubus.. The majority of the Raid bosses you fight currently, so the Jade Strike is useless on most Raid bosses currently except for...

I have heard that the monk abilities that ostensibly do not work on Lawful Outsiders do work on those targets. Whether this is true or WAI, I don't know, but I would give it a shot if I were you. Smite Tainted would probably be the easiest to test with.