Top Monk Damage Project

[GeoBob]

So i TR'd my monk a couple months back, and i began thinking to my self...how could I as an End Game monk make my damage Epic so to speak. So i did a little wiki work, and decided what my monks goal was to be. When he hits 20, his primary raids would be ToD, and Evon. The goal is below as followed.

Red Dragon Scale Robe~ Flaming Burst
Shintao Ring~Holy Burst
Frenzied Bezerker Ring~Shocking Burst
Handwraps~+5 Acid Burst Handwraps of Stunning/Festival Icy Burst/Force Critical.


Through all of this, i figured out that the base damage of +5 Wraps w/ power attack should deal about 45 damage on a base hit no critical. But then, you add in all of the bursts. That is about 10 damage per burst, on a non crit. Therefore, on a non crit you should be doing approximately 105 damage per fist. That is about 210 for two fists on a non crit. But, on a critical hit, the base hand should hit for about 70 damage. And then each burst will deal bout 20 points of damage. So on a crit one hand would be doing about 190 damage. Two fists together would be dealing nearly 400 points of damage on a critical hit. Note that this is all in wind stance, being a dex monk, but a STR monk, may do even MORE damage. But then, my monk being a light monk...on a beholder say that he uses his smite tainted creatures and rolls a crit? IMAGINE the amount of damage he would be doing. Monks may not have Green Steel, but they can still (with a little bit of farming) be the number 1 DPS in the game

[Ertay]

1. Why Shintao Monk? If you want to go max dps, half elf rogue dilly with Ninja Spy II and silver threaded wraps seems to be the way (and we *might* even get Ninja Spy III soon, maybe even before you reach 18 on your monk anyway =) )

2. Force Damage > Critical, since autocrit is out, you will be better off with 1 static damage.

Don't take my word on that though, the only monk I ever rolled just hit lvl6 on his first life for the fifth time because I never got him just right =)

[GeoBob]

1. Why Shintao Monk? If you want to go max dps, half elf rogue dilly with Ninja Spy II and silver threaded wraps seems to be the way (and we *might* even get Ninja Spy III soon, maybe even before you reach 18 on your monk anyway =) )

2. Force Damage > Critical, since autocrit is out, you will be better off with 1 static damage.

Don't take my word on that though, the only monk I ever rolled just hit lvl6 on his first life for the fifth time because I never got him just right =)

Shintao monk for DR breaking ^^. Was dark at the begining of his life though, but didnt care for it much...liked the light monk dr breaking and such. Lvl 14 now, so most likely not

[ImFour20]

if you want pure dps. i wouldn't go pure monk

the 12 fighter 8 monks are awesome, and even the 12 monk 8 fighters are great

key is haste boost. yes if you pound on 1 mob for 2 hours you'll do more dps. but in real raid situations where bosses dont last longer than 3-5 minutes. the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

[GeoBob]

if you want pure dps. i wouldn't go pure monk

the 12 fighter 8 monks are awesome, and even the 12 monk 8 fighters are great

key is haste boost. yes if you pound on 1 mob for 2 hours you'll do more dps. but in real raid situations where bosses dont last longer than 3-5 minutes. the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

Thats not the goal. The goal is for the most DPS pure shintao monk. They probably cant out DPS a lvl 20 barb using a min 2 GS axe, but they can most definitely out DPS most fighters, due to the 200 points of damage, and also because monks attack MUCH faster than a pure fighter. Even if the fighter has a haste boost, the monk in granmaster dex stance attacks just the same if not faster than a fighter with hast boost. And then, throw in a pair of madstone boots.

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

[ImFour20]

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

no. im talking about dps from an unarmed perspective(so only unarmed strikes). i didn't talk about barbs at all lol

[laeris]

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

Short answer?

Yes

If you don't mind sacrificing versatility for DPS: 12F/8Mo
If you like massive sneak attack damage: 12M/7Ro/1F or 12M/7Ro/1Ra
Want a versatile mix but don't want pure monk: 12M/7F/1Ra or 12M/7F/1Ro

[Kinerd]

Monks have the worst critical profile in the game (or second-worst, in Earth stance). This doesn't mean that they do the worst DPS, but it means that focusing on crits is not a productive way of maximizing your monk's DPS. The way to go is to leverage your attack speed with on-hit processes like sneak attack, Holy, Greater Bane. What makes ToD rings great is not that you get Burst, but that you can stack Holy Burst with Holy (on your wraps).

Even if the fighter has a haste boost, the monk in granmaster dex stance attacks just the same if not faster than a fighter with hast boost.

A pure TWF fighter with Haste Boost IV gets 3.8 attacks per second. A monk in Wind stance IV gets 3.5. A fighter with monk unarmed and Haste Boost IV gets a whopping 4.0.

Incidentally, pure barbarians are not the way to go for max DPS. Not even Shade supports a pure barbarian build for those purposes anymore.

[GeoBob]

. A fighter with monk unarmed and Haste Boost IV gets a whopping 4.0.

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just leave.

[GeoBob]

the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

you didnt say anything about barb. You said a multi class can out dps pure build. So apparently in your case, a lvl 20 barb doesnt count as a pure build.

[Rumbaar]

you didnt say anything about barb. You said a multi class can out dps pure build. So apparently in your case, a lvl 20 barb doesnt count as a pure build.

Reading comprehension and subject mater, he was of course referring to pure monk builds.

[Snarglefrump]

Want a versatile mix but don't want pure monk: 12M/7F/1Ra or 12M/7F/1Ro

As an alternative to 12M/7F/1Ro, I've been having a lot of fun playing around with 12M/6Ra/2Ro.

The ranger levels give me:

• Ram's Might: +2 Str and +2 damage, stacks with basically everything
• Favored Enemies: +6 damage versus two types of monsters (Evil outsiders and whatever)
• Tempest 1: +10% offhand attack chance (this works out to 5.6% more offhand attacks compared to a pure monk)

You're right that haste boost is awesome. Rogue gives me Haste Boost 1, which makes giving up the fighter levels less painful.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Maximum DPS possible unarmed build?

I'm pretty sure it would be a prodigy build Half-orc 12 ranger (tempest II) / 7 rogue (assassin I) / 1 monk.

286.54 attacks/minute while haste boosted, 4.78 attacks/second. Compare that to ... 99.1 attacks/minute for an eSoS barbarian (1.65 attacks/second). When haste boosts run out it drops to 225.38 attacks/minute.

The above build can get 10 haste boosts/day. The build has 5d6+9 sneak attack damage. The level split gives a maximum return on investment for your on-hit affects like holy/flaming/shocking burst with the high attacks/minute.

In contrast, a pure shintao monk is just not max DPS.

[DragonTroy]

maximum Dps Possible Unarmed Build?

I'm Pretty Sure It Would Be A Prodigy Build Half-orc 12 Ranger (tempest Ii) / 7 Rogue (assassin I) / 1 Monk.

286.54 Attacks/minute While Haste Boosted, 4.78 Attacks/second. Compare That To ... 99.1 Attacks/minute For An Esos Barbarian (1.65 Attacks/second). When Haste Boosts Run Out It Drops To 225.38 Attacks/minute.

The Above Build Can Get 10 Haste Boosts/day. The Build Has 5d6+9 Sneak Attack Damage. The Level Split Gives A Maximum Return On Investment For Your On-hit Affects Like Holy/flaming/shocking Burst With The High Attacks/minute.

In Contrast, A Pure Shintao Monk Is Just Not Max Dps.

Does That Really Do That?

[Shade]

Does That Really Do That?

Nope, those are entirely made up figures. No one can get anywhere near that kind of attack rates.
THF Barbarian hits per second are also much higher. Since he conviently decided to not include glancing blows like they dont exist or something.... When they infact do exist, and on well built barb even do more damage then your OP dex monk does on regular hits.

Realisticly, the difference in a max speed unamared monk and a thf barb hits per second, is under 40% difference.

Fara s the OP claim about monks being #1 dps.. lol. The DPS challenge shows otherwise.

Monks do have great dps on 100% fort targets. Vs critable mobs they fall very very far behind due to there weak crit profile (19-20/x3 at best in earth stance vs a ftrs 14-20/x3 or a bbns 15-18/x3, 19-20/x6)

[game5551]

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just shut up and leave.

Few things:
1st, which stance are you in? Air for speed or earth for crit? If you pick crit, then attack speed is dropping below that 1/2 an attack (which even at that is 1 attack every 2 seconds or 30 attacks per minute. Adds up to a lot). If you pick air, I dont see how you are getting that crit profile. Every 7th hit is 7/20 or 35% crit. Dosent sound possible. Would love to see the breakdown.

2nd: I dont think I saw anyone say: "oh multi class make your toon more gimped": in fact the opposite.

3rd: Mixing in fighter adds str enchantments, ki gen, stunning enhancements, and extra damage from feats, prestige, str boost, and free "seeker" from Kensei. You lose out on surviability (you do gain hp), but as far as pure damage goes, I dont see how to beat it.

EDIT: 1) I should say: I dont see how to beat the damage output with a pure monk. Didnt mean to go calling ftr 12/8 monk top dps in the game
2) 7/20 crit profile is 14-20. I am calling shenanigans.

[DragonTroy]

Nope, those are entirely made up figures. No one can get anywhere near that kind of attack rates.
THF Barbarian hits per second are also much higher. Since he conviently decided to not include glancing blows like they dont exist or something.... When they infact do exist, and on well built barb even do more damage then your OP dex monk does on regular hits.

Realisticly, the difference in a max speed unarmed monk and a thf barb hits per second, is under 40% difference.

Far as the OP claim about monks being #1 dps.. lol. The DPS challenge shows otherwise.

Monks do have great dps on 100% fort targets. Vs critable mobs they fall very very far behind due to there weak crit profile (19-20/x3 at best in earth stance vs a ftrs 14-20/x3 or a bbns 15-18/x3, 19-20/x6)

ok, now see thats exactly why i asked. 4.78 attacks/seconds sounds ridiculously fast.

although wouldnt there come a point when something could attack so fast it could beat that ftr/barb crit profile? completely hypothetical i mean

[Malky]

Fara s the OP claim about monks being #1 dps.. lol. The DPS challenge shows otherwise.

I'd say the DPS challenge shows that a monk is #1 on 100% fort, and pretty much no good str monk bothered running the 0% fort one due to how unbalanced the esos is.

0% fort is for trash, and trash is wiz/rogue/monk instakill fodder anyway
Bosses is where dps matters, and those ones are more in the 50-100 % fort range

On a side note, the very first time my wf dark str (metaru-like) monk went in VoD, it was on hard and i ended up tanking suulo with 0% incite & no ToD rings.

Guess what ? i kept aggro >95% of the time. Yes there were barbs in group, one of them had an esos, and to complete hard vod the group has to deal some dps, ain't it ?

Now with 20% incite from gear and brute fighting 2, my monk that still doesn't have his ToD rings tanks suulo in vod/tod daily. So far one barb managed to get aggro a few seconds in vod after having attacked suulo right after a teleport.

He's the only one.

But monks are no dps... yeah

[wax_on_wax_off]

Nope, those are entirely made up figures. No one can get anywhere near that kind of attack rates.
THF Barbarian hits per second are also much higher. Since he conviently decided to not include glancing blows like they dont exist or something.... When they infact do exist, and on well built barb even do more damage then your OP dex monk does on regular hits.

Realisticly, the difference in a max speed unamared monk and a thf barb hits per second, is under 40% difference.

Fara s the OP claim about monks being #1 dps.. lol. The DPS challenge shows otherwise.

Monks do have great dps on 100% fort targets. Vs critable mobs they fall very very far behind due to there weak crit profile (19-20/x3 at best in earth stance vs a ftrs 14-20/x3 or a bbns 15-18/x3, 19-20/x6)

Say what? Made up? Hardly.

This is Vanshilar's Attack Speed Index and Formulae forum thread which has attack speeds which are correct afaik.

I must admit that I don't understand all the maths involved but I understand it well enough and I appreciate the time and effort that has gone into it.

The build I described does indeed have that amount of attacks as can easily be seen on the chart. 15% haste boost for unarmed attack givese 111.3 attacks/minute. You can then multiple that by 2.025 which is 100% offhand (tempest II) plus 2.5% doublestrike for wind stance I. Under the influence of haste boost III it jumps up to 141.5 attacks/minute (multiplied by 2.025 again).

Barbarian attacks/second are not much higher ... they are how I described. There's some conversation about various calculations that have been done for barbarian attack speed in the thread, feel free to read about it.

I didn't feel glancing blows to be relevant to the point I was making but I do appreciate how crucial they are to barbarian THF'ing DPS. The point I was making is that nothing can surpass this build with such high attacks/minute for return on investment on multiple stacked on-hit affects. I don't know the relative DPS compared to an eSoS barbarian but that isn't the point of this thread.

Summary: Top unarmed DPS? 12 ranger / 7 rogue / 1 monk on account of having ~4.78 attacks/second.

[butlerfamilywa]

IIRC, Wind IV does not stack with haste.

Ultimate Wind Stance: +4 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, 15% Enhancement bonus to attack speed and 10% insight bonus to double strike chance.

Hence, you would be only gaining a 10% bonus to your double strike chance, not the actual 15% bonus to your attack speed. Yes, Haste is only a 15% bonus to your attack speed and does not stack.

Compare with...

Ultimate Mountain Stance: +4 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, DR 8/-, +4 Natural Armor Bonus, +1 Ki when hit, +5 Ki when critically hit, +3 blocking DR, -7% movement speed, +1 critical multiplier to monk weapons and unarmed attacks on a natural roll of 19-20.

Here we see that on a natural 19-20, the Monk's crit range is increased to a x3. With the feat IC: Bludgeon, that is basically a +1 crit modifier on any crit a monk scores with unarmed combat.


So, over all, you gain 60 Hitpoints (+6 con over Wind IV Stance) by being in Earth IV stance instead, a 8/- DR, +4 Natural Armor (free'n up the need of a ranger or yugo pot for this bonus), and a -7% MOVEMENT (not attack) speed penality.

Keep in mind, this also increases Monk Weapons as well as Unarmed attacks. (Kama's, Quarterstaves) not very useful I admit but still something to keep in mind.



Since Monks score a critical hit with 10% of their attacks, Earth IV is basically an increase to damage output 10% of the time. Granted, our crit ranges are still 19-20, however they do become x3 instead of x2, which is a large increase when they do finally fix the way a monk's damage is calculated.

It SHOULD also increase the damage done on busts from ToD rings, as well as handwraps, however I have the feeling that currently it does not, But in a perfect world, a 20 Monk (forget paths for the moment, we all know Dark Monk puts out more damage than Light Monk), wearing two Tower of Despair Rings, which should be the Frenzied Beserker Set and the Shintao Monk Set, only because of their extra damage output.. would have a damage profile of something close to....


+5 (Alignment Burst) (Metal Type) Handwraps of Greater (Monster Type) Bane
Kyosho's Band ~ Holy Burst
Encrusted Ring ~ (Elemental) Burst
Force Damage Ritual on Handwraps ~ Only because 85% at 1 damage > 10% at 1d4 damage

This should be your damage ability, I am unsure if you can add Icy Burst to a Cannith Crafted weapon so at this time I will not be factoring that in. Yes, Red Dragonscale does increase your dps by adding Flaming Burst to your attacks as well, however this is a very end game item and as such I won't factor this in either.


So Each attack should do something like

2d12 + Modfiers
2d6 Alignment, 2d6 Holy, 1d6 Elemental, 3d6 Bane, 1 Force

Now on a crit, you'll be looking at something like

2d12 + Modifiers, x3
2d6 Alignment, 4d6 Alignment Burst, 2d6 Holy, 4d6 Holy Burst, 1d6 Elemental, 2d10 Elemental Burst, 3d6 Bane, 1 Force

Then you'll add in your Ki Strikes, which just for S&G's we'll just say you cycle Fists of Iron, Earth 3, Earth 4, EEE Finisher..

Giving some of your attacks a chance at x4 and x5 crits, as well as some attacks adding in +12 and +16 damage..



Looking at it this way, and IF you are tanking (getting hit), you should not be losing much in the way of DPS over a Wind IV Monk, IN FACT, your Ki generation will be HIGHER in Earth IV vs Wind IV. Yes it will... you gain Ki in Earth IV stance not only by being hit, but also by attacking as well. Thats 1 Ki per connected attack, 1 Ki per attack that connects on you, and +5 ki per crit that connects on you... vs Wind IV stance which only gains ki at 1 per connected attack.

Yes Earth IV does gain ki on attack as well as being hit, I know this to be true because my main Monk see's it everytime I play him


Also when tanking, your Ki generation will be more than sufficient to cycle any and all ki strikes you feel like having going, I've personally seen this as well


Anyways, now that I've totally forgotten what I was saying I'll just state this..

I foresee a 18/2 Dark Monk/Fighter Ninja Spy II, Half-Elf with Rogue Feat, in Earth IV stance with the Crane Animal Path, Wielding +5 Align Burst Silver/Cold Iron Handwraps of Greater Monster Bane, Str focused Wisdom Build, as the highest DPS Monk build currently...

If you are not a Grandmaster in a Stance, You're not a Monk build in my eyes...

And I say 2 levels of Fighter for +1 Str, Fighter Haste Boost, 48 more HP's over pure Monk, which would be 2d10 vs a 2d12. Avg 11 dmg vs Avg 13 dmg, which is more than made up for by the use of the Fighter Haste Boosts on boss monsters, where it actually really matters.