Top Monk Damage Project

[GeoBob]

So i TR'd my monk a couple months back, and i began thinking to my self...how could I as an End Game monk make my damage Epic so to speak. So i did a little wiki work, and decided what my monks goal was to be. When he hits 20, his primary raids would be ToD, and Evon. The goal is below as followed.

Red Dragon Scale Robe~ Flaming Burst
Shintao Ring~Holy Burst
Frenzied Bezerker Ring~Shocking Burst
Handwraps~+5 Acid Burst Handwraps of Stunning/Festival Icy Burst/Force Critical.


Through all of this, i figured out that the base damage of +5 Wraps w/ power attack should deal about 45 damage on a base hit no critical. But then, you add in all of the bursts. That is about 10 damage per burst, on a non crit. Therefore, on a non crit you should be doing approximately 105 damage per fist. That is about 210 for two fists on a non crit. But, on a critical hit, the base hand should hit for about 70 damage. And then each burst will deal bout 20 points of damage. So on a crit one hand would be doing about 190 damage. Two fists together would be dealing nearly 400 points of damage on a critical hit. Note that this is all in wind stance, being a dex monk, but a STR monk, may do even MORE damage. But then, my monk being a light monk...on a beholder say that he uses his smite tainted creatures and rolls a crit? IMAGINE the amount of damage he would be doing. Monks may not have Green Steel, but they can still (with a little bit of farming) be the number 1 DPS in the game

[Ertay]

1. Why Shintao Monk? If you want to go max dps, half elf rogue dilly with Ninja Spy II and silver threaded wraps seems to be the way (and we *might* even get Ninja Spy III soon, maybe even before you reach 18 on your monk anyway =) )

2. Force Damage > Critical, since autocrit is out, you will be better off with 1 static damage.

Don't take my word on that though, the only monk I ever rolled just hit lvl6 on his first life for the fifth time because I never got him just right =)

[GeoBob]

1. Why Shintao Monk? If you want to go max dps, half elf rogue dilly with Ninja Spy II and silver threaded wraps seems to be the way (and we *might* even get Ninja Spy III soon, maybe even before you reach 18 on your monk anyway =) )

2. Force Damage > Critical, since autocrit is out, you will be better off with 1 static damage.

Don't take my word on that though, the only monk I ever rolled just hit lvl6 on his first life for the fifth time because I never got him just right =)

Shintao monk for DR breaking ^^. Was dark at the begining of his life though, but didnt care for it much...liked the light monk dr breaking and such. Lvl 14 now, so most likely not

[ImFour20]

if you want pure dps. i wouldn't go pure monk

the 12 fighter 8 monks are awesome, and even the 12 monk 8 fighters are great

key is haste boost. yes if you pound on 1 mob for 2 hours you'll do more dps. but in real raid situations where bosses dont last longer than 3-5 minutes. the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

[GeoBob]

if you want pure dps. i wouldn't go pure monk

the 12 fighter 8 monks are awesome, and even the 12 monk 8 fighters are great

key is haste boost. yes if you pound on 1 mob for 2 hours you'll do more dps. but in real raid situations where bosses dont last longer than 3-5 minutes. the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

Thats not the goal. The goal is for the most DPS pure shintao monk. They probably cant out DPS a lvl 20 barb using a min 2 GS axe, but they can most definitely out DPS most fighters, due to the 200 points of damage, and also because monks attack MUCH faster than a pure fighter. Even if the fighter has a haste boost, the monk in granmaster dex stance attacks just the same if not faster than a fighter with hast boost. And then, throw in a pair of madstone boots.

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

[ImFour20]

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

no. im talking about dps from an unarmed perspective(so only unarmed strikes). i didn't talk about barbs at all lol

[laeris]

Edit: So you are telling me, a 12 fighter 8 monk will even out DPS the pure lvl 20 barb using a min 2 greataxe, rage, frenzy, and death frenzy?

Short answer?

Yes

If you don't mind sacrificing versatility for DPS: 12F/8Mo
If you like massive sneak attack damage: 12M/7Ro/1F or 12M/7Ro/1Ra
Want a versatile mix but don't want pure monk: 12M/7F/1Ra or 12M/7F/1Ro

[Snarglefrump]

Want a versatile mix but don't want pure monk: 12M/7F/1Ra or 12M/7F/1Ro

As an alternative to 12M/7F/1Ro, I've been having a lot of fun playing around with 12M/6Ra/2Ro.

The ranger levels give me:

• Ram's Might: +2 Str and +2 damage, stacks with basically everything
• Favored Enemies: +6 damage versus two types of monsters (Evil outsiders and whatever)
• Tempest 1: +10% offhand attack chance (this works out to 5.6% more offhand attacks compared to a pure monk)

You're right that haste boost is awesome. Rogue gives me Haste Boost 1, which makes giving up the fighter levels less painful.

[elg582]

As an alternative to 12M/7F/1Ro, I've been having a lot of fun playing around with 12M/6Ra/2Ro.

The ranger levels give me:

• Ram's Might: +2 Str and +2 damage, stacks with basically everything
• Favored Enemies: +6 damage versus two types of monsters (Evil outsiders and whatever)
• Tempest 1: +10% offhand attack chance (this works out to 5.6% more offhand attacks compared to a pure monk)

You're right that haste boost is awesome. Rogue gives me Haste Boost 1, which makes giving up the fighter levels less painful.

Tempest doesn't work with unarmed.

Not that your build is bad; tempest with long- or shortswords (depending on your race) works quite nicely.

[GeoBob]

the multiclass builds put out more dps than pure builds

you didnt say anything about barb. You said a multi class can out dps pure build. So apparently in your case, a lvl 20 barb doesnt count as a pure build.

[Rumbaar]

you didnt say anything about barb. You said a multi class can out dps pure build. So apparently in your case, a lvl 20 barb doesnt count as a pure build.

Reading comprehension and subject mater, he was of course referring to pure monk builds.

[Kinerd]

Monks have the worst critical profile in the game (or second-worst, in Earth stance). This doesn't mean that they do the worst DPS, but it means that focusing on crits is not a productive way of maximizing your monk's DPS. The way to go is to leverage your attack speed with on-hit processes like sneak attack, Holy, Greater Bane. What makes ToD rings great is not that you get Burst, but that you can stack Holy Burst with Holy (on your wraps).

Even if the fighter has a haste boost, the monk in granmaster dex stance attacks just the same if not faster than a fighter with hast boost.

A pure TWF fighter with Haste Boost IV gets 3.8 attacks per second. A monk in Wind stance IV gets 3.5. A fighter with monk unarmed and Haste Boost IV gets a whopping 4.0.

Incidentally, pure barbarians are not the way to go for max DPS. Not even Shade supports a pure barbarian build for those purposes anymore.

[GeoBob]

. A fighter with monk unarmed and Haste Boost IV gets a whopping 4.0.

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just leave.

[game5551]

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just shut up and leave.

Few things:
1st, which stance are you in? Air for speed or earth for crit? If you pick crit, then attack speed is dropping below that 1/2 an attack (which even at that is 1 attack every 2 seconds or 30 attacks per minute. Adds up to a lot). If you pick air, I dont see how you are getting that crit profile. Every 7th hit is 7/20 or 35% crit. Dosent sound possible. Would love to see the breakdown.

2nd: I dont think I saw anyone say: "oh multi class make your toon more gimped": in fact the opposite.

3rd: Mixing in fighter adds str enchantments, ki gen, stunning enhancements, and extra damage from feats, prestige, str boost, and free "seeker" from Kensei. You lose out on surviability (you do gain hp), but as far as pure damage goes, I dont see how to beat it.

EDIT: 1) I should say: I dont see how to beat the damage output with a pure monk. Didnt mean to go calling ftr 12/8 monk top dps in the game
2) 7/20 crit profile is 14-20. I am calling shenanigans.

[Kinerd]

Oh no whatever am i going to do...1/2 an attack...and critical s? obviously my monk is a lot better than what you are saying. About every 7th hit on him is a crit. So eother any monk you play or think you know is gimped, or mine is just a lot better....and if you dont think crits will still work...just get a Bloodstone. And you guys still dont get the point. you keep saying "oh multi class make your toon more gimped" when all im saying is for a pure lvl 20 shintao monk this is the dps route on a NON gimped toon. So, if you have a problem just leave.

I really have no idea what you're getting at here. 10% of your attacks are crits. Your critical range is 19-20 and you use a 20 sided dice. 2 / 20 = 10%. Adding a Bloodstone is throwing good money after bad. You would be much better off with a Litany of the Dead (something that adds damage on every hit) because you produce hits at a higher than usual rate. Play to your strengths rather than your weaknesses.

Maximum DPS possible unarmed build?

I'm pretty sure it would be a prodigy build Half-orc 12 ranger (tempest II) / 7 rogue (assassin I) / 1 monk.

286.54 attacks/minute while haste boosted, 4.78 attacks/second. Compare that to ... 99.1 attacks/minute for an eSoS barbarian (1.65 attacks/second). When haste boosts run out it drops to 225.38 attacks/minute.

The above build can get 10 haste boosts/day. The build has 5d6+9 sneak attack damage. The level split gives a maximum return on investment for your on-hit affects like holy/flaming/shocking burst with the high attacks/minute.

In contrast, a pure shintao monk is just not max DPS.

The Prodigy is the fastest attack rate, but the Black Lotus ends up being more DPS: it still attacks very quickly and has huge amounts of SA damage. Obviously this means it falls behind on SA immune, though.

I foresee a 18/2 Dark Monk/Fighter Ninja Spy II, Half-Elf with Rogue Feat, in Earth IV stance with the Crane Animal Path, Wielding +5 Align Burst Silver/Cold Iron Handwraps of Greater Monster Bane, Str focused Wisdom Build, as the highest DPS Monk build currently...

If you are not a Grandmaster in a Stance, You're not a Monk build in my eyes...

And I say 2 levels of Fighter for +1 Str, Fighter Haste Boost, 48 more HP's over pure Monk, which would be 2d10 vs a 2d12. Avg 11 dmg vs Avg 13 dmg, which is more than made up for by the use of the Fighter Haste Boosts on boss monsters, where it actually really matters.

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

Tempest doesn't work with unarmed.

I recently reached level 14 on my exploiter. Using unarmed, I attacked the training dummy 50 times and saw two hits 50 times. I am very confident that Tempest's offhand process works with unarmed.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The Prodigy is the fastest attack rate, but the Black Lotus ends up being more DPS: it still attacks very quickly and has huge amounts of SA damage. Obviously this means it falls behind on SA immune, though.

I do love the Black Lotus too, fair to say that I love most unusual unarmed builds. The impression that I got from the OP was that he wanted to get a maximum return on the investment of getting various gear which provides on-hit affects. Assuming maximum-epic-uber gear does the Black Lotus still stay in front against 50% fort bosses? (By this I mean +5 holy silver threaded handwraps of GEOB + festival icy burst + force ritual + holy burst ring + anarchic burst ring + red dragonscale + maximum strength + maximum damage boosts vs an enemy with 0 resistances, 50% fort). What about adding damage from an epic thornlord when manyshot off timer though maybe that is lower than unarmed damage?

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

Thank you, saves me from saying it.

I recently reached level 14 on my exploiter. Using unarmed, I attacked the training dummy 50 times and saw two hits 50 times. I am very confident that Tempest's offhand process works with unarmed.

Thank you, saves me from saying it.

If you are not a Grandmaster in a Stance, You're not a Monk build in my eyes...

What makes a monk is different for everyone. I've thought about this a bit but what it's come down to for me is that the only thing that really defines a monk is the unarmed attack style. Hence, I'd consider any build with at least 1 level of monk that attacks unarmed most of the time to qualify to compete in any competition designed for monks.

Just about everything else a monk gets is quite intangible and doesn't make any significant difference on the overall playstyle of a monk. Abundant step is maybe an exception, though, I've never found myself using this in combat all that much.

[AtomicMew]

Earth stance is very competitive with Wind stance against 0 fort, but a good portion of the major bosses have 50 fort, returning Wind stance to #1 from a raw DPS standpoint.

That's true for wind IV vs. earth IV, but that's a silly comparison. There is very little current reason to go for tier IV stances, considering how much more DPS you gain from multiclassing.

A better comparison is earth III vs. wind III

Wind III gains a total damage bonus of: 187.5/180 = 4.17%
Earth III vs. zero fort gains a total multipliable damage of 23/21 = 9.5%
Earth III vs. 50 fort gains a total multipliable damage of 21/20 = 5%

Wind III probably still wins by a very marginal amount against 50 fort with no outside factors, but the DPS difference is so close that earth III is very, very clearly the better stance. Outside factors being inspire courage, song of recklessness, favored soul fortification debuff - all of these benefit earth more than they benefit wind against 50 fort and push earth back in front at some point.

This is all before considering secondary effects: earth has DR and +CON. This is so much better than what wind has to offer it isn't even funny.

[Kinerd]

Not sure how some epic thornlord manyshot action would fit into the calculations.

I believe grodon9999 did some analysis on that front when he was comparing Tempest and AA rangers. It's conceivable that his methodology could be applied to this situation as well.

That's true for wind IV vs. earth IV, but that's a silly comparison. There is very little current reason to go for tier IV stances, considering how much more DPS you gain from multiclassing.

The build in question was an 18 monk 2 fighter. I respectfully submit that it would be silly to do any other comparison.

Also Abbot would receive a -50% Fort from this attack, added with the Favored Souls Debuff, a Rogue with the correct feats would be getting their sneak attack damage.

Unfortunately the Abbot (if he's like other undead) is immune to sneak attacks in addition to having 100% Fort.

I take that back, Devils are considered Lawful Evil Outsiders, which would be your Abishai, Bearded Devil [Barbazu], Horned Devil (Suulomades), Orthon, Pit Fiend (Arraetrikos, Horoth), Succubus.. The majority of the Raid bosses you fight currently, so the Jade Strike is useless on most Raid bosses currently except for...

I have heard that the monk abilities that ostensibly do not work on Lawful Outsiders do work on those targets. Whether this is true or WAI, I don't know, but I would give it a shot if I were you. Smite Tainted would probably be the easiest to test with.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Maximum DPS possible unarmed build?

I'm pretty sure it would be a prodigy build Half-orc 12 ranger (tempest II) / 7 rogue (assassin I) / 1 monk.

286.54 attacks/minute while haste boosted, 4.78 attacks/second. Compare that to ... 99.1 attacks/minute for an eSoS barbarian (1.65 attacks/second). When haste boosts run out it drops to 225.38 attacks/minute.

The above build can get 10 haste boosts/day. The build has 5d6+9 sneak attack damage. The level split gives a maximum return on investment for your on-hit affects like holy/flaming/shocking burst with the high attacks/minute.

In contrast, a pure shintao monk is just not max DPS.

[DragonTroy]

maximum Dps Possible Unarmed Build?

I'm Pretty Sure It Would Be A Prodigy Build Half-orc 12 Ranger (tempest Ii) / 7 Rogue (assassin I) / 1 Monk.

286.54 Attacks/minute While Haste Boosted, 4.78 Attacks/second. Compare That To ... 99.1 Attacks/minute For An Esos Barbarian (1.65 Attacks/second). When Haste Boosts Run Out It Drops To 225.38 Attacks/minute.

The Above Build Can Get 10 Haste Boosts/day. The Build Has 5d6+9 Sneak Attack Damage. The Level Split Gives A Maximum Return On Investment For Your On-hit Affects Like Holy/flaming/shocking Burst With The High Attacks/minute.

In Contrast, A Pure Shintao Monk Is Just Not Max Dps.

Does That Really Do That?