Apparently it is my fault...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

if I join a group that ruins my fun.
in some way or another.

It is my fault that I join a group with people who are rude.

leave people behind. or dead. do not wait to open chests till everyone is in, or to finish part one of a series.

who give spoilers to those who dont want them.

who get upset when someone does not know something, or do it like their favorite guildy does.

My fault if I join a group that treats new players badly.

my fault for joining a group that uses exploits or questionable tactics.

my fault for not making sure the group I was joining did not practics common courtesy.

or have any concern for other players...and their fun.



Apparently, protesting against mal-treatment of other players or rudeness in any way is ruining "their" fun.

Apparently rude people have the right to be rude. and it is my fault to not specify in my LFMs....that I do not want rude people. Or my fault to only join LFMs that specify tolerance of other people...and doing a quest for fun.

Common courtesy is not common. And nice people should go take time to find the one other guy on the server who plays nice....

My responsibility to find nice and polite people.
and how dare I suggest that someone else should play nice with others.

How dare I expect other people to not be rude. for other people to have consideration.


Sorry...guess it's my fault

[Missing_Minds]

Sorry...guess it's my fault

Now that we have that out of the way...

*offers a cookie*

[SaneDitto]

Clearly it is my fault when I tell people that abuse builds they don't approve of to put a sock in it. Clearly their rudeness is a god-given privilege and how dare this roleplaying, casual, non-min-max pansy plebe speak up against them.

That aside...*hug of consolation*

[Kelavam]

The thing is, you could put all of that in an LFM of your own, and these people do not realize they are who you speak of.

There is a lot of arrogance in this game, sadly. But there is still a fair amount of people who do not play within your list.

I wish tons of luck finding them.

[Cyr]

I'm not buying what your selling.

Different people have different ideas of fun. The best way to distingush groups is good descriptors in the LFM. If there are not descriptors in the LFM or they do not match with your idea of fun then you should not automatically assume that everyone should fall in line with how you want to play.

BTW, I always find it amusing when people group together minor gripes like spoilers with someone exploiting. I know that they clearly are so closely linked

[mournbladereigns]

MMO's would be great if it wasn't for all of the people!

Only sure way to enjoy game is to solo. Luckily you can solo majority of quests in DDO.

When I want to enjoy playing the game, I solo. When I want to grind out some xp, I'll group.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Generally, a society has accepted standards of politeness and does not tolerate people who break those standards.

But in DDO (and especially on the forums) it is "normal" to be rude, and if you want to group with people who play nice with others, it is your responsibility to find them yourself.

[Eladiun]

Short answer, yes...

Make your own group and enforce the rules you want.

[dkyle]

leave people behind. or dead. do not wait to open chests till everyone is in, or to finish part one of a series.

Leaving people behind is pretty mean, usually, but context would be important.

As for chests, if someone has done nothing to earn that chest, why should they expect loot? It's a magnanimous kindness to wait, not a rudeness to not wait.

who give spoilers to those who dont want them.

Unless the LFM says "no spoilers", noone should expect this request to be followed. You want to flower-sniff your way through a quest I've done 50 times, do it on your own time.

who get upset when someone does not know something, or do it like their favorite guildy does.

In most cases, those that get upset did nothing to ask for help, or tell anyone they were new to the quest/raid. If the leader assumes too much, that's their fault though.

My fault if I join a group that treats new players badly.

All new players? You're seeing groups that treats new players badly just for being new? I've not seen this. I've seen plenty of new players that were just being stupid (not accepting/following instructions, not willing to learn) being treated badly, and deservedly.

my fault for joining a group that uses exploits or questionable tactics.

This would depend on what you consider an exploit. I suspect you have more liberal notions of what exploits are than most of the community. If you expect behavior outside the norm, then yes, it's your fault if you join a normal group.

Apparently rude people have the right to be rude. and it is my fault to not specify in my LFMs....that I do not want rude people. Or my fault to only join LFMs that specify tolerance of other people...and doing a quest for fun.

A lot of blanket statements there. Hard to address without specifics.

But I will say, for the vast majority of quests in the game, doing a quest as fast and as efficiently as possible is "doing a quest for fun" to me.

[Eladiun]

leave people behind. or dead. do not wait to open chests till everyone is in, or to finish part one of a series.

You know the opposite of this one is also true. You know how many times I have been standing around waiting for someone to stop putzing around and get to the quest. Some people seem to think everyone should wait for them and only their time is important. I love ship buffs because now I have a counter. You get 5 minutes to reach the quest from the time the party fills if the counter on my buffs says that expired we start with who is there and anyone left suffers the consequences of tardiness. Punctuality should be a common courtesy.

[Lobster5]

Generally, a society has accepted standards of politeness and does not tolerate people who break those standards.

But in DDO (and especially on the forums) it is "normal" to be rude, and if you want to group with people who play nice with others, it is your responsibility to find them yourself.

You meant "and" where you said "but" there.

This society has accepted standards of politeness, they are apparently different to yours.

[Dysmetria]

Sorry...guess it's my fault

Yes, it is your fault. You also likely do not see the hypocrisy of complaining here about their ingame complaints about others and/or you.

You choose to play a game full of people that do one or more of those many things you are complaining about, and on top of that you choose to group with some of them.

Your solutions are simple, either only group with people who will play exactly the way you expect them too, grow a thicker skin, or stop playing MMOs if they are going to upset you to the point where you feel the need to uselessly complain on their forums.

[Krago]

if I join a group that ruins my fun.
in some way or another.

It is my fault that I join a group with people who are rude.

leave people behind. or dead. do not wait to open chests till everyone is in, or to finish part one of a series.

who give spoilers to those who dont want them.

who get upset when someone does not know something, or do it like their favorite guildy does.

My fault if I join a group that treats new players badly.

my fault for joining a group that uses exploits or questionable tactics.

my fault for not making sure the group I was joining did not practics common courtesy.

or have any concern for other players...and their fun.



Apparently, protesting against mal-treatment of other players or rudeness in any way is ruining "their" fun.

Apparently rude people have the right to be rude. and it is my fault to not specify in my LFMs....that I do not want rude people. Or my fault to only join LFMs that specify tolerance of other people...and doing a quest for fun.

Common courtesy is not common. And nice people should go take time to find the one other guy on the server who plays nice....

My responsibility to find nice and polite people.
and how dare I suggest that someone else should play nice with others.

How dare I expect other people to not be rude. for other people to have consideration.


Sorry...guess it's my fault

All of these statements can be taken out of context. Did the LFM say BYOH, IP, Zerg? If the LFM is blank, then its like the box of chocolates and you dont know what you are going to get.

I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment behind your statements, but it only ruins your fun if YOU let it. Add the offenders to your list, shrug off the bad PUG and get back to getting that loot.

And just follow my 3 rules.

[Burtle]

Generally, a society has accepted standards of politeness and does not tolerate people who break those standards.

But in DDO (and especially on the forums) it is "normal" to be rude, and if you want to group with people who play nice with others, it is your responsibility to find them yourself.

What? You didn't know that other peoples "e-Peen's" are what's important anymore... that the size of one's online ego is the matter for the equation, no mater the subject? Shame on you sir/madam...how dare you try to make sense of what is and isn't "kosher" here.

[krackythehoodedone]

MMM

I reckon your on the wrong Server

Come to Khyber your a natural

No one dares to be rude over here

Far too dangerous

[Postumus]

When I want to enjoy playing the game, I solo. When I want to grind out some xp, I'll group.

I find the opposite to be true. When I want to enjoy the game I group, when I just want to grind or farm I solo. I enjoy the social aspect of this game.


I agree with Talon on this one.


There is a standard of personal conduct that is endorsed by society. People who are of the 'treat others as you would be treated' mentality are polite and/or respectful by nature, and peer pressure coerces those who are anti-social or misanthropic to conform to these standards.


The anonymity of the internets eliminates this peer pressure and and people feel uninhibited to do and say things they would never do and say in person. In a sense, their true colors are revealed - or at least significant aspects of their personality that they cannot manifest in RL.


Fortunately, my experience has been that more people join PUGs to have fun than anything else so the majority of them are fun to be with.

[protokon]

Sorry...guess it's my fault

I put up a wizard king yesterday (my group, I was two-boxing a caster/paladin) and stated in the lfm to please be able to solo a tower. a rogue from an infamous guild hit the lfm, made me scratch my head but I accepted him anyways...

I was in progress in tower 1. made it to the top but dumped more SP than I intended to on the djinn so i ran back down the tower to shrine up, the rogue came up the first tower behind me, got despaired, and died on a few archers i left behind. No big deal, il just grab his stone and take him with me-

then all of a sudden, over voice chat he says, "obviously the sorc can't solo if he has to leave stuff behind him ali-"

before he even finished his sentence, I dismissed him (he had released). He sent me a rather rude tell flaming my guild for being elitist or something along those lines, and I ended up just squelching him.

Some people are so inconsiderate, rude, demanding it gets kind of sickening. Yet for every a-hole I have ran into, i've run into 50 people who were not like that. So I keep pugging and enjoy the good times when I run into polite and friendly gamers.

It sucks when people point fingers at you, nobody likes that - especially when you didn't do anything wrong.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You know the opposite of this one is also true. You know how many times I have been standing around waiting for someone to stop putzing around and get to the quest. Some people seem to think everyone should wait for them and only their time is important. I love ship buffs because now I have a counter. You get 5 minutes to reach the quest from the time the party fills if the counter on my buffs says that expired we start with who is there and anyone left suffers the consequences of tardiness. Punctuality should be a common courtesy.

I agree with you. Nothing I hate more than for the last guy to join to tell me he as to go get ship buffs first. (worse when he asked for a ship invite.)

Punctuality should be common courtesy as well....yes.



There are various speeds that you can do a dungeon and have fun in.
zero is not a speed!

But no one wants to watch you solo a quest either.

And noobs happen.
If you have done the quest a hundred times, are you really missing out on anything if you go back for them?

Yeah...I hate to go back for them too. But it just makes it worse if no one does.

Chests...is a judgment call. You don't want to leave one at the beginning and have to go back to open it. But at least stop to think about it.
And end chests are pretty significant.

Completion is even more significant. (you should probably just drop the LFM past the halfway point in a quest actually)

Anyway, I perfectly understand wanting to get the action going...and keep it going.
waiting is no fun.

But there should be a general community effort to make things fun for everyone if possible. And to help each other in quests.

There is an effort made by the "elite" crowd to mark their LFM preferences. But it sure is depressing that every single LFM has some comment of non-tolerance in them.

And it is even worse on the forums.
Where every response is one that tells the new guy to go find another new guy and not bother any power-gamers.


It didn't used to be this way in DDO. This game was different. Had a real community of nice/helpful people.

We waited. We helped. We tolerated noobness.
Yeah...we zerged...and people complained.

But we felt some amount of regret if we realized we ruined someone else's fun.
Now we revel in it.

Now we brag about it. "Noob's stupid remark of the week." has over 1700 replies and 90 pages! Fun stuff huh?! Makin fun of the new guy... bragging about it.

[DoctorWhofan]

Yes it is your fault...stupid archer build!!


I actually KNOW Talon, and he would not join a group if it was labeled something he did not want to do. Like me, he enjoys PuGging. He is also a nice guy. So, I can say he is telling the truth. So you guys can throw that out that he is being whiny.

I think he is trying to say there is a TREND to blame others for your shortcomings. Not a new trend, mind you, but a trend.

I do agree saying it here probably is not hitting your target audience. Or hitting them andthey are either offended or missing the point.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

BTW, I wrote this in response to how people treat others...not necessarily me.

I've played long enough to learn to decipher LFMs and avoid many problems. Although the shear number of LFMs I feel I have to avoid depresses me.

I also wrote it more about forum comments than actual rudeness in-game. In-game people are a little nicer than on the forums. Or at least someone in the group usually is. (and any group I would see something in, I would be there to do something about it myself)

But I really think that playing nice should be the norm. Not the exception.

As a community we should be promoting actions that make this a fun game for as many people as possible.

And "fun" at other people's expense should not be accepted.