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  1. #21
    Community Member flynnjsw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulticleo View Post
    1.There was a time...

    2.If you don't feel like teaching or advising, stay out of their way.

    3.I don't hand out positive OR negative rep, but I think you deserve some of the latter...
    1 and 2. See my post above. Research is your friend...just sayin

    3. LOLWUT

  2. #22
    Community Member DragonKiller's Avatar
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    It seems to me that many people who consider themselves "Vets" are still dripping behind the ears.

    Besides, everyone has to learn a quest some how... if these "Vets" don't teach the new people, then they will never learn the right way. Heck, they might even be able to learn the right way in a back pack :-)
    http://www.dkforums.com - Look Mom it's a Guild forum, can I have one too?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer_Dude View Post
    You're sadly mistaken. I'll do the same thing. You act like short manning is an accomplishment. I've been playing for 5+ years and never been in a guild and have 17 capped toons most of them Trd at least once. I more than know how to short man or solo a quest and have been doing it for some time. Don't kid yourself and think your that uber that some newb can't keep up. He may not be as geared as you but it's not too hard to follow someone thru a quest. I've been running quests with newbies non stop as of late and do nothing but zerg from start to finish. Most seem to keep up ok.

    I might take an extra minute or two tops to explain important stuff but it's only 2 minutes big deal. Guess what? Next run they know and I don't have to stop and teach them so we get done faster. My point in this thread is exactly this why discourage a newbie who wants to learn. This stuff isn't hard. As you said you're already soloing it.
    The problem is that apparently it is hard to just follow someone around a quest, because noobs who pick up on stuff quickly are few and far between. Almost inevitably noobs get caught in DA and die. I don't have much time to play the game in comparison to a lot of people, but I do like min/maxing my characters.

    Part of my problem is that I don't use voice chat (personal preference) so it takes me away from my zerging to explain things.

    I don't want to discourage newbies from playing (hell I even join normal pugs if I get bored enough and I'm in the noob-herding mood), I just don't want to have to explain things when I'm not in the mood.

    What I disagreed with about your post is not the fact that you weren't teaching noobs, but the fact that you seem to be under the impression that you are better than people put up LFMs that aren't looking to be teaching runs. It simply isn't the case; I haven't run with you all that much, but I have run with you enough to say that you are not better than the other server elite, many of whom do use vets/trs lfms.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnjsw View Post
    These two statements are so full of /fail for two entirely separate reasons.

    1. I think you misunderstand who the OP is in the first place.

    2. If you think "your LFM's benefit the community", then you need to hang out with Axer less...or maybe more.
    I know who the OP is, but I don't think you know me. I think my groups provide a very small benefit, but I think it improves the community as a whole. I could not use the LFM panel and just solo/duo to 20, but I think that it's better for the community as a whole to be grouping with other people. LFM's like the OPs would do nothing except annoy me and make me less inclined. Do I think that the community would OMFGCOLLAPSE without me? No, I've been taking a break from DDO recently and obviously not much has changed. But I think that discouraging LFMs only harms the game that we all like.

    Before judging, maybe you should run with me more. Also, thanks for the neg rep.
    Last edited by Attropos; 08-04-2011 at 04:50 PM.
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  4. #24
    Community Member flynnjsw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attropos View Post
    1. But I think that discouraging LFMs only harms the game that we all like.

    2.Before judging, maybe you should run with me more.

    3.Also, thanks for the neg rep.
    1. No one is discouraging LFM use as a whole, just the people that feel that the only way to do a quest these days with uber-twinked TR's and Vets. Add in the fact that a large number of those LFM's are just people hoping to be able to pike off of said TR's/Vets.

    2. "I haven't run with you all that much, but I have run with you enough to say that you are not better than the other server elite, many of whom do use vets/trs lfms." Pot meet kettle.

    3. Not from me though.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnjsw View Post
    1. No one is discouraging LFM use as a whole, just the people that feel that the only way to do a quest these days with uber-twinked TR's and Vets. Add in the fact that a large number of those LFM's are just people hoping to be able to pike off of said TR's/Vets.

    2. "I haven't run with you all that much, but I have run with you enough to say that you are not better than the other server elite, many of whom do use vets/trs lfms." Pot meet kettle.

    3. Not from me though.
    1. You're missing the whole point of the LFMs as well. When I post these lfms, I want good players, not geared players. Although most tr's are well geared, I don't myddo people or anything.

    Maybe my experience has been different than yours, but with the exception of 1 group, all Vets/Trs groups I have joined have been above average.

    2. The difference is that I'm not advocating the use of LFMs that make fun of other people. Let other people play how they want to, it's not that hard of a concept to understand. It's good that he wants to teach noobs. Leave any negativity out of it though.
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  6. #26
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    Default Attt

    Quote Originally Posted by Attropos View Post
    1. You're missing the whole point of the LFMs as well. When I post these lfms, I want good players, not geared players. Although most tr's are well geared, I don't myddo people or anything.

    Maybe my experience has been different than yours, but with the exception of 1 group, all Vets/Trs groups I have joined have been above average.

    2. The difference is that I'm not advocating the use of LFMs that make fun of other people. Let other people play how they want to, it's not that hard of a concept to understand. It's good that he wants to teach noobs. Leave any negativity out of it though.
    Two things.

    1. I don't teach noobs. I do teach newbs. There's a big difference.

    2. In my experience almost anytime I see an lfm like that it's a noob and not a newb. Bthus I won't join. I'm not going to let them pike of my knowledge of the game and not allow other newbies to get the same knowledge just so they can feel uber or get carried thru a quest. So I have no problem posting an lfm for the same quest calling them out for what most of these guys are. A noob looking for a free ride.
    If the toon is named after a beer 17 of them are mine & 1 more not named after a beer (the black sheep of the family). Beware there are a few beer imposters out there. Unless the toon has been "Banned From All Guilds" it's a fake Beer_Dude. Fake Beer in your group leaves a nasty taste.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer_Dude View Post
    Two things.

    1. I don't teach noobs. I do teach newbs. There's a big difference.

    2. In my experience almost anytime I see an lfm like that it's a noob and not a newb. Bthus I won't join. I'm not going to let them pike of my knowledge of the game and not allow other newbies to get the same knowledge just so they can feel uber or get carried thru a quest. So I have no problem posting an lfm for the same quest calling them out for what most of these guys are. A noob looking for a free ride.
    Edited because I'm a noob
    Last edited by Attropos; 08-04-2011 at 10:55 PM.
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  8. #28
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    Default Again you didn't read correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Attropos View Post
    I get it, that's your way of calling me a noob. So would you say Mts, Clean, and Norge are also noobs? Do you not see the slippery slope you're on?
    I said almost anytime as in most cases and I said most people. If you want to put yourself in that category feel free too but I didn't. Your choice how you want to classify yourself. FYI I didn't neg rep you. If I neg someone I make sure to post in the thread it was me and why.

    Also a slippery path would be to insinuate I might be catching some back lash from those guys. I know full well that they don't fit in that class as they do plenty for newbs. They know that i know what they do for newbs and that I don't put them there as well. I would not start name dropping if I were you. It's in your best interest to keep this between you and I.
    Last edited by Beer_Dude; 08-05-2011 at 04:47 AM.
    If the toon is named after a beer 17 of them are mine & 1 more not named after a beer (the black sheep of the family). Beware there are a few beer imposters out there. Unless the toon has been "Banned From All Guilds" it's a fake Beer_Dude. Fake Beer in your group leaves a nasty taste.

  9. #29
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    When I am xp zerging my 4th life tr I tend to like to run with people that have the same goal. If I have a party of tr's that are all about xp/min I really don't want to take the time to explain a quest. On the other hand if I am just logging in to casually play and have a good time with a favorite raid or quest, then my group composition really isn't that big of a concern. Often times I like to take the first 5 that hit and roll with whatever classes happen to be there. I think it really is up to the person forming the group to decide how he wants his group to be ran.
    Mogee, Proud Member of Synergia

  10. #30
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    Default I totally agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MogeeMaleeg View Post
    When I am xp zerging my 4th life tr I tend to like to run with people that have the same goal. If I have a party of tr's that are all about xp/min I really don't want to take the time to explain a quest. On the other hand if I am just logging in to casually play and have a good time with a favorite raid or quest, then my group composition really isn't that big of a concern. Often times I like to take the first 5 that hit and roll with whatever classes happen to be there. I think it really is up to the person forming the group to decide how he wants his group to be ran.
    I see plenty of lfms that say speed runs for max xp/min. No issues whatsoever. Have at it. I get in those moods too. That's way different than saying vets only. One states I'm too good for you stay away or it states I can't get this done without prine people with prime gear. The other says this is all about xp/min and I'm In a rush. One works one states noobness. Again. Not all who post it are nooks but those of us that have been here a bit know who the vets are and aren't.
    If the toon is named after a beer 17 of them are mine & 1 more not named after a beer (the black sheep of the family). Beware there are a few beer imposters out there. Unless the toon has been "Banned From All Guilds" it's a fake Beer_Dude. Fake Beer in your group leaves a nasty taste.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer_Dude View Post
    I said almost anytime as in most cases. If you want to put yourself in that category feel free to but I didn't. Your choice how you want to classify yourself. FYI I didn't neg rep you. If I neg someone I make sure to post in the thread it was me and why.

    Also a slippery path would be to insinuate I might be catching some back lash from those guys. I know full well that they don't fit in that class as they do plenty for newbs. They know that i know what they do for newbs and that I don't put them there as well. I would not start name dropping if I were you. It's in your best interest to keep this between you and I.
    So it's not ok to make fun of people that do things for newbs, but it is ok to call random people who you don't know out? Do you think you know every single toon who is played well on the server? You're treading a fine line here that I don't really see has a distinction about who you call out as lazy. The issue I have with your OP is that seem to be encouraging random call outs. Unless it is someone you have run with before, I think that it just shows a lack of maturity to assume that everyone (or even most people) who use a certain type of LFM (especially one that is widely regarded as standard for people who want to do xp runs) is a piker who needs to get called out.

    You play your way, don't try and hinder other people's experiences.

    There are probably people who are just meaning to pike, but as far as I know, these people are far outweighed by people who just want fast xp without having to explain themselves. If an LFM is ridiculous (only barbs/fighters for DPS), it might have a reason to get trolled. I think putting Vets/TRs is similar to BYOH except it gets less annoying tells.
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer_Dude View Post
    I see plenty of lfms that say speed runs for max xp/min. No issues whatsoever. Have at it. I get in those moods too. That's way different than saying vets only. One states I'm too good for you stay away or it states I can't get this done without prine people with prime gear. The other says this is all about xp/min and I'm In a rush. One works one states noobness. Again. Not all who post it are nooks but those of us that have been here a bit know who the vets are and aren't.
    Maybe it's a misinterpretation of LFMs. When I see something that says Vets/TRs only, it's generally either preceeded or followed by Xp Sack run x/x. I immediately think "Fast xp runs, business".

    Also, I think it depends on your interpretation of vets. If you mean pre-F2P as vets, maybe I can see where yo uare coming from. I think it's becoming more commonplace to refer to anyone who has been playing enough to know all the quests and the nooks and turns of characters, regardless of whether they came in at the start of F2P or if they have been here for 5 years. I know people who have been here from 2006 who are terrible at this game. There is a certain cap to skill, and I think that quite a few F2Pers have reached it.
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  13. #33
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    Default This is were we disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by Attropos View Post
    So it's not ok to make fun of people that do things for newbs, but it is ok to call random people who you don't know out? Do you think you know every single toon who is played well on the server? You're treading a fine line here that I don't really see has a distinction about who you call out as lazy. The issue I have with your OP is that seem to be encouraging random call outs. Unless it is someone you have run with before, I think that it just shows a lack of maturity to assume that everyone (or even most people) who use a certain type of LFM (especially one that is widely regarded as standard for people who want to do xp runs) is a piker who needs to get called out.

    You play your way, don't try and hinder other people's experiences.

    There are probably people who are just meaning to pike, but as far as I know, these people are far outweighed by people who just want fast xp without having to explain themselves. If an LFM is ridiculous (only barbs/fighters for DPS), it might have a reason to get trolled. I think putting Vets/TRs is similar to BYOH except it gets less annoying tells.
    You say these mostly are vets looking for the same. I say its the exact opposite. There are the few like you who are legit and competent players. But most are not. If you were to put it to a vote on here I'm pretty certain you'd find that most vets will say that most of the ones posting those lfms are the guys who have been around just long enough to think they know everything when in fact they don't know much at all.
    If the toon is named after a beer 17 of them are mine & 1 more not named after a beer (the black sheep of the family). Beware there are a few beer imposters out there. Unless the toon has been "Banned From All Guilds" it's a fake Beer_Dude. Fake Beer in your group leaves a nasty taste.

  14. #34
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer_Dude View Post
    Two things.

    1. I don't teach noobs. I do teach newbs. There's a big difference.
    You can't teach noobs. You can teach newbs.

    Based on the "vet/TR only/Know it" groups I've hit before, I now rate them on par with "need dps" that excludes Paladins, Monks, Rogues, or Rangers (or the one that only had Barbarian listed...), and the "need healer" groups (or even worse, the ones that state "elite if we get a healer").
    Anyone who disagrees is a Terrorist...

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  15. #35
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    Default Thishi

    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    You can't teach noobs. You can teach newbs.

    Based on the "vet/TR only/Know it" groups I've hit before, I now rate them on par with "need dps" that excludes Paladins, Monks, Rogues, or Rangers (or the one that only had Barbarian listed...), and the "need healer" groups (or even worse, the ones that state "elite if we get a healer").
    Is exactly what I'm trying to say. Att's problem is that he does this and thinks he's part of the majority because a few people he knows that are excellent players do this here and there. When in fact they aren't the majority by any stretch. They are by a long shot the minority. They can and do get away with these lfms because they are vets and know whats up. The problem is the noobs see these great players do this and think they can do the same because they've run the quest once or twice. Or they want to attract that caliber of player to carry them thru quests. Reality is most of those lfms are not the quality of people he thinks they are. His mindset is I am that good and I do this so the others that do this must be just as good.

    Not really his fault. More really his perception. I get caught in that mind frame here and there and forget not everyone has the same amount of trigger time as I do when I do stuff. It wasn't an attack on him but an attack on those that think they're as good as him and the others in that class.
    If the toon is named after a beer 17 of them are mine & 1 more not named after a beer (the black sheep of the family). Beware there are a few beer imposters out there. Unless the toon has been "Banned From All Guilds" it's a fake Beer_Dude. Fake Beer in your group leaves a nasty taste.

  16. #36
    Community Member Kelavam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnjsw View Post
    Research is your friend...just sayin
    I wish I knew how you meant this, positive or negative. There are people that think things HAVE to be a certain way. And some people are truly noobs. But you cannot say all are that way by first impression. You have no idea who you are dealing with until they prove themselves.

    What research did I miss?
    How can you not love Bacon? Even PIGS love bacon.

  17. #37
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    You can't teach noobs. You can teach newbs.

    Based on the "vet/TR only/Know it" groups I've hit before, I now rate them on par with "need dps" that excludes Paladins, Monks, Rogues, or Rangers (or the one that only had Barbarian listed...), and the "need healer" groups (or even worse, the ones that state "elite if we get a healer").

    pretty much my only requirement for my LFM (if i was even in the mood to actually lead a party) is that you know what you're doing, not necessarily know the quest
    posting for healer usually helps with morale when you're trying to teach newbies too
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  18. #38
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attropos View Post
    I get it, that's your way of calling me a noob. So would you say Mts, Clean, and Norge are also noobs? Do you not see the slippery slope you're on?
    OK Rast while you are solid you are not in the same class as MT, Clean and Norg. Not sure id even insinuate such.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    OK Rast while you are solid you are not in the same class as MT, Clean and Norg. Not sure id even insinuate such.
    If I insinuated I was, it was purely accidental and is due to my non-native English. I was merely giving examples of people that have used such lfms in the past and that nobody would ever call a noob.

    Who are you in game?
    Rastelin/Sicariuss/Inquisiteur/Tisapph
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  20. #40
    Community Member Maugrim101's Avatar
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    There are a lot of LFMs advertised for speed asking for TRs etc by people who can't match those requirments themselves (Maybe the TR part, but not so much on the speed).

    There's room out there for "Anything goes" type LFMs and the more restricitve ones (Each LFM maker has the right to run his/her group however he/she wants). I only get the stroke pills out when the run doesn't match the description posted.
    Last edited by Maugrim101; 08-04-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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