Traps doing redonkulous damage on elite.

[Bodic]

I remember getting hit for +500 in TR elite @lvl7 it hurted.

so that being said Elite traps have been nerfed.
you want more nerfs?

[Orratti]

Elite is meant to be soloed. Now. It is scaled by the number of players in the party. The times it really isn't are when you need someone to stand on pressure plates or pull switches although some enterprising players have overcome these obstacles even before it was scaled.

One shot kill traps, well, I wouldn't build one any other way. If you are going to be a dedicated soloer you need to be ready to accept the challenges you will face and possibly even build for dealing with them. If you are running favor runs you didn't lose anything but time.

Traps can be timed and avoided as long as you can manage to set them off without dying. Don't feel bad though. Everytime traps start killing people there is a nerf thread to stop it.

[evilgardengnome]

I used to dread the fire room in STK. Even Normal would wipe out half of a well prepared party. Harder difficulties required a rogue, first to disable the trap, then to recover all the stones still in the remaining fire.

[Sarisa]

Yeah, I've been killed doing an elite L5 Syndicate run on my L20 Sorc. Buffed to the max, DR and stuff. The one with the items trapped. Take and then whole room electrical damage .. pingpingpingpingpingping ... ding!

Oh oops

Update 9 really made some traps hurt. Ones, like that one, ADQ1's Sonic traps in the Bat hall, and the VoN3 electric trap already mentioned in this thread, all got a massive increase in range from what they used to be.

[dingal]

Your solo'ing elite difficulty, and often succeeding.. Yet you think the problem is that you got killed by a trap?

.. Elite was never intended to be solo'd. Thats what casual/normal is for. The fact you can even do it on ANY quest either means you are very skilled and knowledable and doing something unexpected by the developers. Or the quests are too these days easy due to factors added after they were release (often the case, newer quests are often more difficult on elite to solo then older ones.)

Every trap on elite should ALWAYS 1 shot kill any solo player in all cases on a failed save. Whats redicules is to thnk otherwise.. It's elite, you failed to dodge the trap. Suck it up and try again, or give up and doing an easier difficulty.

No, despite the fact elite is meant to be difficult.. Not a single quest in the game features any traps that can stop a solo favored soul or any other class in the game. 99.9% of traps in the game can be navigated without being hit thru player skill alone. The 0.1% that can never do enough damage to 1 shot a player with reasonably good HP for the level (and yea you HP seems fine, you just are trying to zerg thru a physical trap without any skil and you failed and died. Dodge it next time, there are no phsyical traps at around that level that are undodgable. Only one I can think of that is undodgeable is the wizard king lever traps - which deal elemental damage you can easily survive with a protection from elements.

So no, rogues are never required to beat any quest in the game. Not elite, not epic. A couple have required locks, so a rogue/someone with knock may be required, but never "rogue only",

There are some valid points in there, however I'd like to note that in many cases it seems that epic traps do less damage than elite traps. That seems like something is skewed. I don't suggest elite should do less necessarily but it seems epic should do more than elite.

[Shade]

You mentioned 'dodging' traps, can you explain the fundamentals of doing it? From what I've seen the network code of DDO is a bit off. Even with a ping under 100ms(averaging around 70) with no dropped packets I often see mobs warping, blade traps hitting me long after I've cleared them, etc. I've tried correctly timing my movements through them, inching forward to get them to go off when I'm out of range, and jumping over(this is the most successful).

Name the specific trap and ill tell you a safe way to dodge/navigate it.

Lag can be worked around by understanding DDOs traps. Often running thru them when it seems like they are most likely to hit you is the best course of action for very laggy traps, sometimes not.. Depends on the trap.

Far as a basic explanation goes, its easy:
Almost no trap in the game is CONSTANT. Most of them "pulse".. Meaning if you time it right, you can simply run right thru them without taking a hit. Most of the time it's better to jump over them, but not always.

[Shade]

There are some valid points in there, however I'd like to note that in many cases it seems that epic traps do less damage than elite traps. That seems like something is skewed. I don't suggest elite should do less necessarily but it seems epic should do more than elite.

Yea that was the case for a long time.. But lately I've not really seen that.

Did chains of flame lately, and while most of the trapsa on epic aren't evne present on elite, the few that were on both, did more damage on epic, if only slightly. (flame jets)

Chains is a good example of an epic done right tho.. Many don't feature extra traps at all.. More should be done like chains.

[Raithe]

The point that should be pounded into this thread is that the difficulty of the traps far exceeds the difficulty of the rest of the quest, and the only resource that is truly necessary in these quests is someone who can raise dead.

As a tool to improve the demand or tolerance of rogues in groups, the elite traps have been a colossal failure. From my experience in PUGging, and particularly with the bonus for no deaths, demand for rogues in elite quests is virtually nil because the rogues will often die themselves to elite traps. Because they can't spot them, because they can't search them out, and because even their 40-50 reflex save doesn't prevent them from rolling under 5 and taking way-too-much damage.

The damage thresholds are what irritate me the most. It's like they picked them to benefit a certain level of powergaming while leaving new and casual players to experience the actual difficulty. If elite traps are so elite, why don't they do 1000s of points of damage to anyone that rolls an 80 or lower on their reflex save?

[t0pazdrag0n]

Why would the bad guys put traps up if they didn't one shot people who set them off? I mean, you put up that big bad electricity trap b/c you don't want people to get past them right? I mean this is supposed to be somewhat simulating adventuring in a real dungeon, right?

[Postumus]

Traps on elite difficulty just seem massively over-tuned. My FvS fully buffed has a base of 198 HP at lvl 12, with an additional +21 from Aid, and 5/adam DR. Physical traps often one-shot me if I happen to fail a single save, with traps often hitting 3-5 times. Elemental based traps also do horrendous damage, even through res30 and 120 points of protection. I've been dropped to less than 20 HP by some elemental traps even through all that.

To me this seems a little ridiculous.

To me it seems about right.

It's called 'elite' not 'harder than normal so I feel special when I complete it but not so hard I can actually fail.'

[Orratti]

Update 9 really made some traps hurt. Ones, like that one, ADQ1's Sonic traps in the Bat hall, and the VoN3 electric trap already mentioned in this thread, all got a massive increase in range from what they used to be.

I don't remember if the sonic traps have boxes. I know the lightning ones in von don't. Traps that have no boxes should be less likely to kill a character as there is no way to disable those. Alot of these might be affected by the increase given to spell damage. The acid vents in the black dragon room in Tor for example seem to have been increased in damage tremendously and in my last Tor runs made that one the most dangerous of the three to kill.

[Raithe]

I don't remember if the sonic traps have boxes. I know the lightning ones in von don't. Traps that have no boxes should be less likely to kill a character as there is no way to disable those. Alot of these might be affected by the increase given to spell damage. The acid vents in the black dragon room in Tor for example seem to have been increased in damage tremendously and in my last Tor runs made that one the most dangerous of the three to kill.

Traps in the black dragon room on elite do about 400-500 damage on a failed save. If you don't stand on the island with the giant (and hopefully you get there before 2 traps go off) you will die if you don't have evasion. Even if you do have evasion it is not wise to stand off the island with the giant because you could roll a 1 and take at least 250 damage when you weren't expecting it.

The trap damage pass of update 9 was independent of spell damage mods. Mechanical traps as well as elemental traps were all upgraded across the board, even for hard difficulties.

[Sircowdog]

The point that should be pounded into this thread is that the difficulty of the traps far exceeds the difficulty of the rest of the quest, and the only resource that is truly necessary in these quests is someone who can raise dead.

This is really more along the lines of what I was thinking. The penalty for for failing to disarm or 'dodge' or evade traps seems far far out of whack when compared to the difficulty of the rest of the quest. An elite run which is 5 levels below a character is a complete breeze with the only exception being the traps. If the quest is meant to be so **** difficult(as many of the people in this thread have stated) then why isn't the ENTIRE quest as difficult and as punishing as the traps?

[Sarisa]

I don't remember if the sonic traps have boxes. I know the lightning ones in von don't. Traps that have no boxes should be less likely to kill a character as there is no way to disable those. Alot of these might be affected by the increase given to spell damage. The acid vents in the black dragon room in Tor for example seem to have been increased in damage tremendously and in my last Tor runs made that one the most dangerous of the three to kill.

No boxes for those. They can be avoided by going around the outside of the bend in the room, but you have to metagame a good bit to know that. But being that there IS a way around them, I don't mind that change too much. The ceiling sonic traps were not a threat before.

Also in ADQ1, the blast of fire when you approach the chest in the end fight will also hit everyone in the room, which is a 300ish point blast on epic.

The VoN3 electric trap is just overly punishing, with absolutely nowhere to stand to avoid being hit.

[smyter]

Name the specific trap and ill tell you a safe way to dodge/navigate it.

Challenge Accepted!

At the end on Von3, in the marut room, where is a safe spot to stand to receive zero damage when the room gets electrified?

[Lewendriel]

Why would the bad guys put traps up if they didn't one shot people who set them off? I mean, you put up that big bad electricity trap b/c you don't want people to get past them right? I mean this is supposed to be somewhat simulating adventuring in a real dungeon, right?

Exactly!

I have been completing half of the harbor runs so far on elite, but only with using 1-3 hirelings at the same time with my lvl 4 paladin. If I see a trap on elite; I stop; observe it and respond my movements accordingly to the pattern of the trap. Problem is of course to spot them before running into them and get killed.

Rogues are of course good to have in a group and yes rogues are more than disabling machines, but that is none the less one part of being a rogue and having N/A in disabling as a rogue is like rolling a cleric and have zero or less in heal skill. With that said, I have never heard a rogue complaining or not doing it as most rogues actually seems to like it.

Traps are there to stop any intruder with all the force possible and they should one shot anyone failling their save no matter what. If you dont like it, find another game to play to be honest as D&D always have been about going down in deep dark places and avoid traps, kill monsters, get the treasure and head out for a reward. It is the very essence of D&D ever since 1st table top edition was published.

regards,
Lew

[Sircowdog]

Traps are there to stop any intruder with all the force possible and they should one shot anyone failling their save no matter what.

That's like saying all monsters are there to stop any intruder with all the force possible and they should one shot anyone without enough armor no matter what. Monsters are just as much a part of the difficulty of a run as traps are, as well as puzzles, or terrain. Should every challenge and aspect of an elite run carry a penalty of instant death if not handled by the appropriate class in the appropriate manner? At least if that was the case it would be consistent!

But let me clarify:

I'm not against traps being dangerous and having severe penalties for people not able to dodge or disarm them(although I do still think the damage is a bit extreme). I'm not even against elite runs being so difficult that a group is absolutely required. What I am wondering, however, is why the traps on elite are so far and beyond any other difficulty and penalty in the rest of the run.

[count_spicoli]

Why would the bad guys put traps up if they didn't one shot people who set them off? I mean, you put up that big bad electricity trap b/c you don't want people to get past them right? I mean this is supposed to be somewhat simulating adventuring in a real dungeon, right?

ha ha that was the first thing I thought when I saw title to thread. While we are at it why not make it so I can vorpal harry in the shroud or better yet make it so he doesn't hit so hard so my ftr won't need a healer. Imo traps need to be harder to get around not easier. I like a challenge and I like having multiple classesin quest to make it work.

[Sircowdog]

ha ha that was the first thing I thought when I saw title to thread. While we are at it why not make it so I can vorpal harry in the shroud or better yet make it so he doesn't hit so hard so my ftr won't need a healer. Imo traps need to be harder to get around not easier. I like a challenge and I like having multiple classesin quest to make it work.

That's a blatant misinterpretation of the points I've made. Try reading the post directly above yours.

[FranOhmsford]

The Hobgoblins in STK, Tangleroot and Tear of Dhakaan know they have no chance of fighting off some 11th -13th lvl hero so they build superb traps.

Same goes for Kobolds.

Partycrashers however is just ridiculous when it comes to getting thru the illusionarium without a rogue.

To be honest though I've had serious problems in Small Problem {No traps whatsoever} soloing on a character gaining 0 xp.

To me Small Problem and Partycrashers especially are too hard for their level.