Disapointed in ESOS...

[Ssmooth]

Had the mats to make a 2nd ESOS and thought it'd be nice on my paly.

Long story short, smites in the 750's, crits in the 220's with 38 raged str with +6 seeker. Before I respecc'd from twf khopesh, I was smiting in the 620-650 range with a GS khopesh and had all the bene's of twf attacks.

I guess I was expecting more...maybe I'm wrong/have unrealistic expectations...

I'm sure on stunned mobs it'll be ~1k, but I was hoping to hit close to that mark on un-stunned mobs.

I'll experiment with some things to see if I can get it into the range I'm hoping for before TR'ing.

[Kinerd]

Compared to TWF khopeshes, eSoS is rarely an overall improvement. I think if you compared it to a GS THF, you would be much more impressed. (I am not suggesting you should make a GS THF.) Especially on a paladin, I would emphasize the fringe benefits: being able to build a DPS paladin without Dex, being able to make a permanent DR-bypassing eSoS, multiple-target damage, and so on.

[Balkas]

The main benefits of THF over TWF are that you can get your To-Hit much higher, you can dump Dex, and that you can save yourself 3 feats (4 if you are using Khopeshes) through twitching on a very feat-starved class.

Don't forget about the increased crit range on the ESoS also .

[Ssmooth]

Yeah, I saw the benefits of 70hp increase, better crit range, and didn't need the khopesh prof. feat.

Plan to TR into a 12/6/2 kensai/frenzie/rogue for next life. Hopefully with the increased str and attack speed I will be more satisfied, even if it won't bypass all dr, all the time.

[Shade]

Yea the hugest thing on a pally is going to be the to-hit bonus.

+7 vs dual GS khopesh, assuming you have no OTWF as most pallies cant fit it.

So in a quest like epic wizking/chains/offering, you may actaully be able to hit a non-evil outsider with powerful attack on. And no, you aren't hitting the tougher melee types much at all with your khopeshes with power attack on currently. The warrior gnolls in wizking for example have 75+ AC.

Looking at a pally video, I think they possibly stealth buffed twf for pallies while stealth nerfing THF when they screwed with the special attack animations in u9.

While I havent played one, from the video I saw it looks like TWF smites get 100% offhand proc and a fast animation (regardless of your twf feats), while THF smites get a very slow anim, and no benefits to glancing blows (if you get one at all)

[Ssmooth]

The low to-hit certainly affected my choice of Epic dps toons, and paly was usually last on the list, even behind my rogue, for this reason.

[TheDearLeader]

Looking at a pally video, I think they possibly stealth buffed twf for pallies while stealth nerfing THF when they screwed with the special attack animations in u9.

While I havent played one, from the video I saw it looks like TWF smites get 100% offhand proc and a fast animation (regardless of your twf feats), while THF smites get a very slow anim, and no benefits to glancing blows (if you get one at all)

You mean the new animation, that video I made on Lammania?

It only applies to base Smites - not Exalted. So, thankfully, we don't have to deal with that - yet.

[Ssmooth]

LMAO!! I got neg rep'd on this thread....

I think some one has ESOS envy!

That's just too funny.

[soloman]

Heres one back +1

[Shade]

You mean the new animation, that video I made on Lammania?

It only applies to base Smites - not Exalted. So, thankfully, we don't have to deal with that - yet.

mmm.. Yea the inconsistancy they put in with specials in U9 is really annoying.

Sunder uses that same retardedly slow/no glancing blow swing that smites use for thf.
Plus unlike the TWF 5th attack the smite uses, it was purposely nerfed to have no glance to boot..

Really dumb. Sure sunders a free feat so doesnt need to be super strong, but it should be as fast as regular attack at least. And improved sunder should have a glancing blow with 100% proc at least.

[TheDearLeader]

And I decided to play mathmatologist...

Min II Khopesh - 1d10 + 5 Base = 10.5 Base
eSoS - 5d6 + 10 Base = 27.5 Base

Looking at that, you really should be seeing a decent chunk moar damage. I'd have to say you'd need to buff yourself with the exact same buffs and test over a range of smites. Combat buffs vary way too much to just compare a couple crit smites here and thar.

That said, the eSoS will also crit more often, since it has the Falchion's crit profile. So you'll be seeing those big numbers with a higher frequency, which should not be overlooked.

And yes, the bonus to-hit is also useful in certain situations.

[Ssmooth]

The smites are 13-20x5 and 750 isn't a bad number for a smite. So I know that a good % of my smites will crit and give big numbers. The only issue with a paly is the number of smites is limited(at 12 currently) so in long battles, dps decreases quick once those are gone.

I'll deffinately experiment more with it on this build. Maybe I just need a better overall perspective of the dps output capabilities.

[TheDearLeader]

The smites are 13-20x5 and 750 isn't a bad number for a smite. So I know that a good % of my smites will crit and give big numbers. The only issue with a paly is the number of smites is limited(at 12 currently) so in long battles, dps decreases quick once those are gone.

I'll deffinately experiment more with it on this build. Maybe I just need a better overall perspective of the dps output capabilities.

Don't discount Divine Sacrifice.

Also, unless I'm in front of the raid boss, I don't smite. Its a guaranteed way to become the one in front of that raid boss without meaning to.

That said, 12 Smites can be spaced out pretty decently. Smite, Divine Sacrifice two three times, Smite again, DS a few more times, and so forth. Don't have to blow your payload all at once. Also, keep in mind that Smites do regenerate at a rate of 1 per 90 seconds, which means about 1 Smite per 7 seconds for that first minute and a half. That's long enough for a large portion of "Spartan/Ball Method" eDQ, establishing Hate on Horoth before everyone goes to smack Suulomades, etc.

[mournbladereigns]

There may come a time when you find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting after all.

[Ssmooth]

Don't discount Divine Sacrifice.

Also, unless I'm in front of the raid boss, I don't smite. Its a guaranteed way to become the one in front of that raid boss without meaning to.

That said, 12 Smites can be spaced out pretty decently. Smite, Divine Sacrifice two three times, Smite again, DS a few more times, and so forth. Don't have to blow your payload all at once. Also, keep in mind that Smites do regenerate at a rate of 1 per 90 seconds, which means about 1 Smite per 7 seconds for that first minute and a half. That's long enough for a large portion of "Spartan/Ball Method" eDQ, establishing Hate on Horoth before everyone goes to smack Suulomades, etc.

My paly was capped at 16, then shortly again when it increased to 20 so I learned early on in VoD's to wisely use my smites. Even though smites regen, I have been in some sub-par dps hard/elite ToD's that extended the fights to 5+ minutes(either due to deaths/recovery or low dps). In these situations, the regen is irrelevant after ~3 min mark, even when spaced out.

Certainly in the shorter fights, like ToD part II, or EDQ, I simply spam them as soon as they are off timer.

I also make sure I always keep DS on timer(if you have a paly that does not, reroll).

[TheDearLeader]

I also make sure I always keep DS on timer(if you have a paly that does not, reroll).

That's a bit harsh.. I'd just advise them to swap enhancements >.>

[Ssmooth]

That's a bit harsh.. I'd just advise them to swap enhancements >.>

Alright, maybe it is... I guess if you run a paly and do not use your 2nd largest increase to dps in your arsenal, maybe it should be HIGHLY considered

[stoopid_cowboy]

LMAO!! I got neg rep'd on this thread....

I think some one has ESOS envy!

That's just too funny.

I'll toss ya a +1

I am pretty sure someone is envious

yuda