Need Advice: Self-Sufficient Kensai II+ ?

[sirgog]

So, I THINK I wanna go with the halfling with marks and 2 rog for UMD and evasion. I like evasion when practicial. Again, since I'm not going to play the ftr at 20, capstones mean nothing to me. He will be TRed almost immediately and NOT played in epics likely at all.

One question, I'm going THF and mainly fighter.. But, I want evasion to matter. I have DT with +5 resistance, but what else am I going to do for reflex save with a low dex?

Hook me up with some ideas if you would plz.

This is one area where pally starts making sense because of the CHA bonus to saves. CHA bonus can function in a number of ways on a pally splash. Saves, UMD, and potentially force of personality if I so chose. (prolly wouldn't)

If you have even mediocre Cannith crafting, you can make a +4 Reflex saves item with a very low minimum level.

I have a ring like that with a large guild augment slot for the low levels. Works a charm.

It won't be enough of a saves bonus for Elite Monastery traps, but will be enough for the random Fireballs thrown at you while you are levelling.


The various deep Paladin splashes people have mentioned strike me as more optimized for play at 20. IMO, you want Power Surge by level 14 or so in order to speed up levelling. Pal2 isn't a bad idea, however.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What about 12 Fighter, 6 Fvs and only 2 Paladin?

Yeah that works too but need to remember that 12 fighter isn't really significant as the other levels will come first and as soon as power surge is acquired the character would TR. Unless you went 1 FvS then 12 Fighter sort of thing which would qualify for metamagics feats to boost up DMs and give Power Surge in a timely enough manner for it to be useful. In this case I would go 12 fighter / 6 FvS / 2 monk for evasion at level 15.

The various deep Paladin splashes people have mentioned strike me as more optimized for play at 20. IMO, you want Power Surge by level 14 or so in order to speed up levelling. Pal2 isn't a bad idea, however.

The purpose of the paladin suggestion is to qualify for metamagics such as maximise and empower healing. Healing Dragonmarks are thoroughly underwhelming without any metamagics. In contrast, with at least 2 metamagics and superior ardor even the least dragonmark is effective for spot healing.

Still, fighter is the least self sufficient class and 7 or 8 levels are all that's needed for a PL and I would work from there.

[sirgog]

Yeah that works too but need to remember that 12 fighter isn't really significant as the other levels will come first and as soon as power surge is acquired the character would TR. Unless you went 1 FvS then 12 Fighter sort of thing which would qualify for metamagics feats to boost up DMs and give Power Surge in a timely enough manner for it to be useful. In this case I would go 12 fighter / 6 FvS / 2 monk for evasion at level 15.



The purpose of the paladin suggestion is to qualify for metamagics such as maximise and empower healing. Healing Dragonmarks are thoroughly underwhelming without any metamagics. In contrast, with at least 2 metamagics and superior ardor even the least dragonmark is effective for spot healing.

Still, fighter is the least self sufficient class and 7 or 8 levels are all that's needed for a PL and I would work from there.

One Wizard/Cleric/FvS level covers that. Or you can just use the Heal ones and accept that the other ones are unspectacular.

[Arlathen]

Complete off-skilter idea....

Half-Elf, Fighter 12 / Monk 7 / Rogue 1
- WSS Longsword Build with Cannith Crafted +X Holy/Burst Longswords of Lesser/Vampirism
- Easy to make Cannith Crafted DR Breakers - no Greensteel grinding for Raid bosses
- Go Monk Light Path for Fists of Light Healing (works on WSS Longswords)
- Ramp up your Healing Amp along the way (Half-Elf 20%, Monk 20%, Jidz Fire Stance 25%, DT Tempest Rune 20% would be a darn good start)
- Start with Half-Elf Cleric Dilletante for Wand & Scroll Healing
- When UMD high enough, Swap Dill for Paladin for Saves, profit from UMD Scrolls as well as self healing

Played a similar build on my TR's first life.... was fantastic running through quests without needing spells, pots, wands or scrolls for healing.

[Dendrix]

Go Warforged.
Fighter 12.
Wiz 5. Haste, Displacement, Blur, Exp Retreat, Nightshield, Self Healing.
Monk 3 for Evasion and AC and Light Path self healing.

[OldAquarian]

Kind of obvious but, for an immediate TR - it seems that aside from getting the fighter icon, we are really only talking about a level 19 build as the 20th level will last only moments and doesn't need to add anything

[grausherra]

Half-elf
2 monk / 18 fighter

Cleric Dilletante - You can heal with wands all friggin day

Splash monk for evasion, plus an AC bonus from the 14 Wis you'll have to take to get cleric dilletante.

[Deathdefy]

Given you want healing above and beyond pots (and wands I'm guessing), serious divine splash or halfling marks sound like a winner. I'd go halfling marks so you're declined from fewer pugs.

Something like, and totally ripping off earlier suggestions here, 1 Cleric (for Emp Healing), 2 Rogue (for Evasion and traps), and a lot of Fighter.

Halfling (36 pt build since you're on life 2 now)
Stats
Str: 16 (16 build points)
Con: 14 (6 build points)
Dex: 16 (6 build points)
Int: 14 (6 build points)
Wis: 10 (2 build points)
Cha: 8

1 - Rogue 1 Toughness
2 - Fighter 1 THF
3 - Fighter 2 DM 1, Power Attack
4 - Rogue 2 (Evasion)
5 - Fighter 3
6 - Fighter 4 DM 2, WF: Slashing
7 - Fighter 5
8 - Fighter 6 WS: Slashing
9 - Cleric 1 Maximize
10-Fighter 7
11-Fighter 8 ITHF
12-Fighter 9 DM 3
13-Fighter 10 GTHF
14-Fighter 11
15-Fighter 12 Empower Healing, GWS
16-Fighter 13
17-Fighter 14 Cleave?
18-Fighter 15 Great Cleave?
19-Fighter 16 Stunning Blow?
20-Fighter 17

No IC: Slashing since Carnifex and Min II both come with complimentary keenness. You could get Maximize earlier, but save for Gwylan's stand I doubt you'll be using the marks much till 9 anyway.

Side note: with 4 skill points per fighter level to distribute you can maintain search and disable device, while relying on initial rogue level ranks into OL. You can't also get UMD though.

I honestly consider trapping a bigger boon than a really solid balance score and UMD, but people do disagree with that.

[Monkey_Archer]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244771
This is really an ac hate tank build, but is fairly self sufficient. Personally, I ended up getting rid of the halfling dragonmarks for more toughnesses since i was more focused on tanking.
For a more self sufficient THF build, just swap TWF feats for THF (dump dex for more strength or charisma), then drop dodge, TWD and CE for maximize, empower, and empower healing.
Total healing in that case would be all 3 max/emp/emp healing dragonmarks, max/emp/emp healing cure light wounds (you wouldn't have much sp but its there), 2 LOH, unyielding sovereignty, and partial UMD for 65% heal scrolls and wands.

[unbongwah]

12: Maximise
15: Empower Healing
18: Empower

I took Emp Heal first because by lvl 12 my char has Greater DM (Heal) and I wanted to amp it first. Also, what feat would you drop to make room for Emp? Despite getting 14 total (7 regular, 7 ftr), you can see they wind up tight. I suppose you could drop IC Slash and stick to keen/Min2 falchions; that's not so bad if OP plans to TR as soon as he hits 20; otherwise I'd say IC Slash + eSOS would be the endgame goal.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=228226

For this concept I prefer the Quad H; wizard splash lets you add Max & Emp to boost Least & Lesser DMs. Especially useful now that FoL finisher has been nerfed. Case in point:

Half-Elf, Fighter 12 / Monk 7 / Rogue 1
. . .
Played a similar build on my TR's first life.... was fantastic running through quests without needing spells, pots, wands or scrolls for healing.

Dunno how long ago it was you played this build. But the problem with it now is FoL got nerfed in U9(?); now it's based on monk lvl not char lvl, which means the free heals from this combo went way down. I suppose some free healing is better than none, but it's not as good as it was, especially if you're stuck using a sub-optimal DPS weapon like longswords. Also, unlike, say, the original Solar Phoenix, which could take pally Devotion IV for +40% heals, you have no way of boosting yours with monk / ftr.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I took Emp Heal first because by lvl 12 my char has Greater DM (Heal) and I wanted to amp it first. Also, what feat would you drop to make room for Emp? Despite getting 14 total (7 regular, 7 ftr), you can see they wind up tight. I suppose you could drop IC Slash and stick to keen/Min2 falchions; that's not so bad if OP plans to TR as soon as he hits 20; otherwise I'd say IC Slash + eSOS would be the endgame goal.

The OP clearly says that the build will be TR'd upon hitting level 20 and no consideration needs to be given for end game viability.

For this reason, yeah, IC:Slashing is totally optional considering that there is a minII falchion in the bank. Emp healing to amp up a heal spell which will heal 10*level+75% ardor+10% healing enhancement is overkill on the HP the build will have at that level. However, getting more HP out of least and lesser DM will go much further. Empower is gained at level 18 which will be the last 2 levels of the builds life, if there is a better combat feat to take then that is fine too but I suspect that Empower would fit the needs of the build better.

Did I mention that I'd suggest the last 2 levels of the build be monk? This will give the build 2 more feats.

I think this thread is over ...

Cheers,
Wowo

[unbongwah]

Did I mention that I'd suggest the last 2 levels of the build be monk? This will give the build 2 more feats.

If you can tell us how to do a quad-class build - rogue, ftr, pally, and monk - we're all ears.

[wax_on_wax_off]

If you can tell us how to do a quad-class build - rogue, ftr, pally, and monk - we're all ears.

Because I obviously meant quad class and not exchanging rogue for monk?

[binnsr]

You don't like melees, are going to re-TR immediately upon reaching 20 and like to self-heal.

Why not 1Rog/12Wis/7Ftr. You'd just need to burn a +3 LR before the TR (They're on separate timers, so you can do them back to back if you like) to make it a 9Wiz/1Rog/10Ftr for the past-life feat.

[Meat-Head]

So I thought I was learning toward halfling.. But my final build will likely be a Horc melee cleric. So, on this fighter life, I thought it might be nice to do a Horc to get a hang for their enchancements and weaknesses..

So, yea. Now add Horc to the requirement list. :/

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I thought I was learning toward halfling.. But my final build will likely be a Horc melee cleric. So, on this fighter life, I thought it might be nice to do a Horc to get a hang for their enchancements and weaknesses..

So, yea. Now add Horc to the requirement list. :/

Doesn't really work. You don't get healing amplification. You don't get heals except from character levels.

Solutions:
Do you have some healing amp gear?
Are you happy to rely on UMD and/or wands for self healing?
Are you happy to use a LR+3 at 20 to get your fighter past life?
Are you happy to have a healer hire following you around all the time? (this option is gross)

7 fighter / 7 ranger / 6 monk can work. Prioritise the ranger and monk levels. Start with a decent wisdom score and prepare to spend a fair bit of time unarmed using stunning fist to disable enemies. Ranger wands provide good self healing. Stunning Fist and Stunning Blow can disable enemies to stop them hurting you. Shadow Fade + Displacement scrolls stop enemies hurting you. Decent wisdom, dexterity and barkskin give good AC. Manyshot provides a good ranged burst DPS option when necessary.

This build will work for what you need. 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 monk is an option too.

[Meat-Head]

Doesn't really work. You don't get healing amplification. You don't get heals except from character levels.

Solutions:
Do you have some healing amp gear?
Are you happy to rely on UMD and/or wands for self healing?
Are you happy to use a LR+3 at 20 to get your fighter past life?
Are you happy to have a healer hire following you around all the time? (this option is gross)

<snip>

Hm... Maybe it doesn't work..

OK.. new idea.

6 Cleric 12 Fighter 2 barb

-Cure Crit spell
-some minor buffs
-Rad Serv I bursts
-Fighter lvls = dps
-Barb = run speed and bossfight rage for dps as needed

** If I decide I don't wanna deal with TR2 grind again, I can LR with a +5 to my final build probably ** (maybe 2 +3s if necessary)

That last part is important. I have a busy life and it precludes a lot of playing sometimes. So, I have a feeling I may not want to keep grinding levels out.


Also, I DO have at least 1 piece of Hamp gear (Levik's bracers) so that will help. But I can see, I'll want more probably.

Thank you all for your input. It's been really helpful in my thinking!

[unbongwah]

What about bard 8 / ftr 12 - Warchanter I / Kensai II. Bard 8 only provides modest healing, but you also get some nice buffs to make up for it (Haste, Displace, etc.) as well as UMD.