Hello DDO Brethren and Sistren,
Here's the deal:
I am on life 2 of my main and I want to get a fighter past life in after this one. Thing is, I don't like pure melee. My biggest thing is wanting to be able to self-heal pretty much from lvl 1-20. (I could live with like lvl 4-20 or something). When I say "self heal" I DO NOT mean potions. They are fine to supplement, but that's it.
-Requirements-
1. 12+ lvls of fighter (ok only 10/11 needed for past life feat, but seems like you want kensai II if you're that close)
2. Self healing from early to late
3. Solid DPS (obviously not going to be #1)
4. THF (Why? Cuz I have a carnifex and a MIN2 Falchion.. so I don't NEED to grind more weapons for the life)
5. Does *NOT* have to be epic worthy AT ALL as I will likely TR immediately at 20.
6. Can be any race/class combo if it fits above. [EDIT: I think I wanna go Horc, so that narrows things down]
Thoughts I had-
Warchanter I?
Halfling with full marks so I could go full ftr?
Rad Serv I? (didn't seem to add any real dps where Warchanter does)
WF Fighter/Wizzy? I dunno..
My basic searching didn't come up with many builds that fit this. The ONE I saw would be a halfling 18Ftr/2Rog, but it was TWF.
One last thing- It will be moderately well geared. In addition to the weapons above, I have a GS tier 2 HP cloak (haste clickie), a set of Con-Opp goggles, and some other raid loot stuff and some moderate DT armor, etc..
Any help or advice is appreciated.
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08-02-2011, 08:25 PM #1Community Member
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Need Advice: Self-Sufficient Kensai II+ ?
Last edited by Meat-Head; 08-05-2011 at 02:22 AM.
Originally Posted by Darkrok
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08-02-2011, 08:34 PM #2Community Member
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How about: Human Fighter 12 (Kensai II), Paladin 6 (look over PREs for what fits), Rogue 2.
Unlock tasty rogue feats (UMD, scroll healing)
Paladin gives some LOH for in combat healing not sure how many at level 6 though.
Evasion enhances survivability with some pally bonuses to saves (not uber but not useless).
STR 16, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 16
Or something along those lines...So much to learn, only so much time in the day...
Enkur/Suljak/Grimslad/Azimander/Vladig/Nandos/Thangfod/Somnolent/Glumnael
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08-02-2011, 08:54 PM #3Community Member
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Originally Posted by Noobian
Hm.. Would get 2 LOH and not very great ones since they are based on Pally level. 6 Levels of Pally would get me LOH heals of about 96 pts twice per shrine. Meh. I would also get Unyielding Sov tho, which is awesome (100% healed once per 10 mins), as well as access to cure light wounds spell and wand use. Little light on the healing ability, but add in UMD with the CHA score you list and it's not horrible. Also, I didn't expect to get evasion on this build, so that's a bonus.. Interesting.
Any other ideas? Originally Posted by Darkrok
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08-02-2011, 11:00 PM #4Build Constructionist
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I have a build along these lines, but halfling instead of human for healing DMs. Originally Posted by Noobian
Biggest drawback is it backloads the THF feats & PA more than I would normally like; you might want to front-load your ftr lvls instead in order to get them sooner. Also consider HotD instead of KotC (at least while leveling) for the +10% heal amp to improve your mileage from your DMs.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Female (12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) Hit Points: 364 Spell Points: 70 BAB: 19\19\24\29\29 Fortitude: 21 Reflex: 14 Will: 10 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 16 26 Dexterity 10 12 Constitution 16 18 Intelligence 10 12 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 12 14 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 9 Bluff 1 4 Concentration 3 6 Diplomacy 1 4 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 5 6 Heal -1 2 Hide 0 5 Intimidate 5 27 Jump 7 14 Listen -1 2 Move Silently 0 3 Open Lock 4 5 Perform n/a n/a Repair 0 1 Search 0 1 Spot 3 4 Swim 3 8 Tumble 4 5 Use Magic Device 5 25 Level 1 (Rogue) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Haggle (+4) Skill: Intimidate (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Open Lock (+4) Skill: Spot (+4) Skill: Tumble (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing Level 2 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting Level 3 (Paladin) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 4 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 5 (Paladin) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 6 (Paladin) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing Level 7 (Paladin) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 8 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 9 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Level 10 (Rogue) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Level 11 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 12 (Fighter) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Level 13 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 14 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons Level 15 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell Level 16 (Fighter) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting Level 17 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 18 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Level 19 (Fighter) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 20 (Fighter) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery II Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I Enhancement: Fighter Strength I Enhancement: Fighter Strength II Enhancement: Fighter Strength III Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
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08-03-2011, 12:32 AM #5Community Member
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This isn't a bad level split. The trickiest part is not being able to take metamagic feats from paladin levels in the level 3 slot. Originally Posted by unbongwah
Outcome:
1: Least DoH
3: Toughness (this is where I wish you could slot Maximise)
6: Lesser DoH
9: Greater DoH
12: Maximise
15: Empower Healing
18: Empower
With the abundance of fighter levels you have those extra metamagics will really extend the usefulness of your DMs better than the benefit of any other feat (imo).
Makes me reconsider another option:
6 FvS (Angel of Vengeance)
6 Paladin (Hunter of the Dead)
8 Fighter (Kensai)
The AoV PrE makes it kind of worthwhile to have such a minor splash a spell casting class where usually it would be a complete no-no. Shield of Condemnation is a pretty excellent buff and having a favoured soul level by level 3 will let you take maximise to boost up healing. This is a bit of a random tangent and overall it would be marginal at best but including healing enhancements would certainly see a lot of mileage for your DMs.
Overall, the general theme that I want to highlight is that more than 8 levels of fighter is not necessary and for your goals will generally not be the easiest or funnest path.
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08-03-2011, 01:16 AM #6Community Member
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What about 12 Fighter, 6 Fvs and only 2 Paladin? Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
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08-03-2011, 01:59 AM #7Community Member
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Yeah that works too but need to remember that 12 fighter isn't really significant as the other levels will come first and as soon as power surge is acquired the character would TR. Unless you went 1 FvS then 12 Fighter sort of thing which would qualify for metamagics feats to boost up DMs and give Power Surge in a timely enough manner for it to be useful. In this case I would go 12 fighter / 6 FvS / 2 monk for evasion at level 15. Originally Posted by OldAquarian
The purpose of the paladin suggestion is to qualify for metamagics such as maximise and empower healing. Healing Dragonmarks are thoroughly underwhelming without any metamagics. In contrast, with at least 2 metamagics and superior ardor even the least dragonmark is effective for spot healing. Originally Posted by sirgog
Still, fighter is the least self sufficient class and 7 or 8 levels are all that's needed for a PL and I would work from there.
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08-03-2011, 10:06 PM #8Build Constructionist
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I took Emp Heal first because by lvl 12 my char has Greater DM (Heal) and I wanted to amp it first. Also, what feat would you drop to make room for Emp? Despite getting 14 total (7 regular, 7 ftr), you can see they wind up tight. I suppose you could drop IC Slash and stick to keen/Min2 falchions; that's not so bad if OP plans to TR as soon as he hits 20; otherwise I'd say IC Slash + eSOS would be the endgame goal. Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off
For this concept I prefer the Quad H; wizard splash lets you add Max & Emp to boost Least & Lesser DMs. Especially useful now that FoL finisher has been nerfed. Case in point: Originally Posted by DragonTroy
Dunno how long ago it was you played this build. But the problem with it now is FoL got nerfed in U9(?); now it's based on monk lvl not char lvl, which means the free heals from this combo went way down. I suppose some free healing is better than none, but it's not as good as it was, especially if you're stuck using a sub-optimal DPS weapon like longswords. Also, unlike, say, the original Solar Phoenix, which could take pally Devotion IV for +40% heals, you have no way of boosting yours with monk / ftr. Originally Posted by Arlathen
Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.
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08-04-2011, 05:32 AM #9Community Member
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The OP clearly says that the build will be TR'd upon hitting level 20 and no consideration needs to be given for end game viability. Originally Posted by unbongwah
For this reason, yeah, IC:Slashing is totally optional considering that there is a minII falchion in the bank. Emp healing to amp up a heal spell which will heal 10*level+75% ardor+10% healing enhancement is overkill on the HP the build will have at that level. However, getting more HP out of least and lesser DM will go much further. Empower is gained at level 18 which will be the last 2 levels of the builds life, if there is a better combat feat to take then that is fine too but I suspect that Empower would fit the needs of the build better.
Did I mention that I'd suggest the last 2 levels of the build be monk? This will give the build 2 more feats.
I think this thread is over ...
Cheers,
Wowo
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08-02-2011, 08:48 PM #10Community Member
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The half-elf race could make near anything work, if you're happy with using scrolls, just by taking cleric dilletante.
May sound terribad but how bad for this purpose would 8 FvS / 12 Fighter really be? It will get you to level 20 with a healthy SP pool and access to cure critical wounds and other level 4 divine spells. The downside is that you won't get much from the FvS side for DPS. Another thing is that while leveling you give up the higher level spells or fighter 12.
Bard splash is probably best, really. A race with healing amp (human/helf) would be nice. Spell point healing works well with the gear you have.White Fang (newbie-friendly build) - TWF melee dps with self-sufficiency and rogue skills.
California King - the hagglebot craftbot alt build, pure Arty leveling with two-handed weapons.
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08-02-2011, 08:57 PM #11Community Member
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Originally Posted by Luckness
The bard thing SEEMS to be best choice to mbe so far. Self buffs, Self heals, an UMD, seems cool. Warchanter I adds some dps and some DR. So it fits. Originally Posted by Darkrok
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08-02-2011, 09:01 PM #12Community Member
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Don't forget that Pally gives you smites and such too, which will work well with your Min II which has a good crit profile. I don't know if you can get Divine Sacrifice at that point but possibly. Originally Posted by Meat-Head
Plus Pally gives you 4 more HPs/level over bard, nothing to sneeze at.So much to learn, only so much time in the day...
Enkur/Suljak/Grimslad/Azimander/Vladig/Nandos/Thangfod/Somnolent/Glumnael
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08-02-2011, 08:59 PM #13Community Member
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You could go 12 Fighter 6 Pally 2 rogue Half-Elf FVS Dillanttante can use scrolls up to lev 10 FVS free of UMD
while stil having good dps
~Khyber~
Characters: Serxis - Zaragoth
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08-02-2011, 08:59 PM #14Community Member
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12 Fighter (Kensai II), Bard 6 (War Chanter I), Rogue 2
Go Half Elf, take Pally Dilly for saves. Unlock UMD for scroll healing. Again in combat healing won't be spectacular and self buffing won't knock your socks off but you'll have decent evasion and some low end songs. Biggest fall off, IMO is the trade off of d10HPs for d6HPs.
*shrugs*So much to learn, only so much time in the day...
Enkur/Suljak/Grimslad/Azimander/Vladig/Nandos/Thangfod/Somnolent/Glumnael
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08-02-2011, 09:01 PM #15The Hatchery
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Halfling with healing marks, IMO. Full THF chain. Rog2 for Evasion and trapsmithing (which grants 15% XP in a lot of quests).
Edit: Hard to know how many Rogue levels to take. Definitely 2, but a good case can be made for 5 (3d6+6 sneak attack damage). Especially if you have (or are willing to make) a Radiance 2 Falchion. Ftr15/Rog5 is far from an endgame-optimized build, but it will work, well, for 1-19.Last edited by sirgog; 08-02-2011 at 10:47 PM.
I don't have a zerging problem.
I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.
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08-02-2011, 09:06 PM #16Community Member
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*sighs* Originally Posted by sirgog
Probably the best option really. THF line, coupled with marks and Fighter feats would net you quite a bit of healing really. Add in the versatility and out of combat scrolling, this is probably your best bet.So much to learn, only so much time in the day...
Enkur/Suljak/Grimslad/Azimander/Vladig/Nandos/Thangfod/Somnolent/Glumnael
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08-02-2011, 09:25 PM #17Community Member
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Originally Posted by Noobian
It's not as glorious for some reason.. but it does seem to work well. DPS = yes. marks + UMD = yes to healing..
Plus, I have rage AND haste clickies for important fights as needed, so the bardic self buffs I would have at lvl 6 lose some weight (songs would still be nice, but a full Kensai doesn't need to worry about to-hit, so the benefit becomes thin.. especially on a THF)
THEN he throws the XP bonus carrot out knowing 3rd life TR grind blows and anything helps.
Stinking Sirgog and his DDO knowledge...
Thx guys! Originally Posted by Darkrok
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08-02-2011, 09:45 PM #18Founder
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08-02-2011, 09:47 PM #19Community Member
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Given the goal of self-sufficiency, I would say it's between halfling with dragonmarks or half-elf with cleric dilettante, and going 20 fighter either way. That is if self-sufficiency is a balance of both effective self-healing and being able to beat something down single-handed.
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08-02-2011, 09:49 PM #20Community Member
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Dragonmarks are always a solid choice for leveling though you need metamagics to make that work. If it wasnt for your THF req I'd say some ranger levels but otherwise 6 paladin makes sense to fit in maximise, empower healing and empower.
Also realise when deciding on your build that you only need 7 fighter levels by level 20 as most classes are alphabetically inferior to fighter.
Have you tried an unarmed build yet? Combining monk AC with stunning fist and a little sneak attack makes for some brutal solo ability and there is less reason to self heal if you're not getting hit.
Perhaps 7 monk / 6 ranger / 7 fighter for versatility and soloability? Wand healing, healing amp, vampiric stonedust wraps, shadowfade, manyshot, 276 attacks/minute while boosted ...
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