12 Paladin/6 Ranger/2 Monk KotC II AA

[Grieve]

I was curious about other opinions on a build I've been working on that would work much like the Helves Angel build, but instead of the 12 Fighter I was looking at Paladin. So the class split would be 12 Paladin/6 Ranger/2 Monk with the KotC II & AA prestiges as the titles says. I don't currently have my breakdown on me for the exact build on me at the moment, but I'm sure some forum junkies can extrapolate the basics from what I've mentioned.

Just curious what major issues with this concept could come up. Also, still not sure what the best PLs would be for it.

Thank you for any input given and I will try to get the specifics I have for this concept up as soon as I can.

Found the Character Planner I had for it... (This may or may not be out of date.)

This is a 34-pt build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 341
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 22
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 10 12
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Granted) Bow Strength

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Granted) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 4 (Ranger)
Feat: (Granted) Diehard

Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Granted) Evasion

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Granted) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Granted) Manyshot

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)
Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)
Level 14 (Paladin)
Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot

Level 16 (Paladin)
Level 17 (Paladin)
Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 19 (Paladin)
Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Undying Call
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I

[karl_k0ch]

12 Fighter grants you 7 bonus feats, while Paladin 12 offers none.


Let's have a look at the feat list what this means.

1. R: Point Blank Shot, (Bow Str), (FE: Outsider)
2. R: (TWF), (Rapid Shot)
3. R: Weapon Focus: Ranged, (Die Hard)
4. R
5. R: (FE: Undead or Elemental)
6. R: Past Life Feat: Paladin, (ITWF), (Many Shot)
7. M: Power Attack
8. M: Toughness, (Evasion)
9. F: Improved Crit: Pierce, Extend
10. F: Stunning Blow (or Quick Draw)
11. F
12. F: Mental Toughness, GTWF
13. F
14. F: Improved Crit: Ranged
15. F: Precise Shot
16. F: Improved Precise Shot
17. F
18. F: Weapon Focus: Pierce, Weapon Specialization: Pierce
19. F
20. F: Greater Weapon Specialization: Pierce

In red, all non-negotiable feats.

From this list, you could drop WF: Pierce, WS: Pierce, GWS: Pierce, PL: Pally, Stunning Blow without sacrificing much of your mellee dps, as Divine Might & Favor compensates for this.
Still, these are only 5 feats, and not 7. The next ones in line would be IC: Pierce, and Extend, and possibly Power Attack. Another problem is that for this build, the only viable Monk martial arts feats are Toughness and Power Attack

Imho, it is doable, but suboptimal: Less general melee damage (Handwraps vs. Rapiers/Khops), trading Extend for +2 to hit and +2d6 damage against evil outsiders, which is also applied to ranged damage.
It's a decent choice if you plan to do e.g. Shroud and VoD a lot. Especially the portals will whimper.

[Grieve]

Found my character Planner for the build.

[maddmatt70]

The obvoius issue is you do not have improved precise shot which is an essential feat basically for ranged characters. One possible solution to that would be to go with 12 paladin 6 ranger 2 fighter and dump toughness or to stay with 12 paladin 6 ranger 2 monk and drop icrit slash and use min 2s/epic konzek cruelty scimitars.

I would also ask why go with Kotc 2. Kotc 3 is pretty solid,but Kotc 1 and 2 are less so. How about Hunter of the dead 2 instead. Hunter of the dead gives you 20 or so healing amp among other things. If you went wtih 12 paladin 6 ranger 2 fighter did not grab toughness and went without crit slash you could pick up maximize, get your amp up to 220ish and hit yourself with 300 pt cure moderate wounds which would be pretty cool.

[karl_k0ch]

You're missing one of the most important ranged feats.

No IPS, no DPS.

The statement above lead to the fact that I'll probably never roll an AA Assassin II; click the quote's link to the discussion of my try on that build, if you are interest.

[Grieve]

You see the key thing I've noticed with Improved Precise Shot after playing an AA for a while now is it's only useful if you want to hit multiple targets at a time and actually can be annoying if you need to avoid hitting random enemies, but if I plan to only use my bow verse bosses and resort to TWF melee for the majority of the time. I don't think I will miss it much.

[maddmatt70]

but if I plan to only use my bow verse bosses and resort to TWF melee for the majority of the time. I don't think I will miss it much.

Why would not you use manyshot on trash mobs? It does so much more dps especially with ips. I do not understand your statement.

[Fundamental]

If you have never made a AA ranger for ranged and are trying to make hybrid's like this be prepared to re roll a lot.
Since experience is crucial.

IPS = without that feat you will deal about 2000 less damage in seconds with the right setup and ms so it's basically a huge mistake to go melee.

[Grieve]

I do realize IPS increases your DPS decently for each enemy in your line of fire, but my thought process is how often will you have 2, 3, 4, or maybe more enemies in line while Manyshot is ready to go since outside of manyshot ranged DPS is just okay. Add to that most groups get aggravated if you kite mobs around, which from my experience is one of the few good ways to get mobs to line up for you. This issue limits your ability to hit multiple targets at a time. Another issue is half the time you need to move around while firing so your line of fire is constantly shifting making it even less likely to hit multiple targets.

[EpiKagEMO]

should go 12 ranger 6 pally instead.
12 ranger= full use of tempest II
6 pally=a decent X2 divine sacrafices 100% of the time due to tempest II

part AA though.... AA does not benefit from 12 paladin whatsoever.

[karl_k0ch]

should go 12 ranger 6 pally instead.
12 ranger= full use of tempest II
6 pally=a decent X2 divine sacrafices 100% of the time due to tempest II

part AA though.... AA does not benefit from 12 paladin whatsoever.

Of course, AA benefits from Pally 12.

+7 Damage, +3 to hit, and and additional +2D6 damage against Evil Outsiders. It's actually pretty comparable to what a Kensai II offers: WF (+1 to hit), WS (+1 damage), GWS (+1 damage), Specified Weapon II (+2 damage), Kensai II (+2 to hit and damage), which adds up to a static +3 to hit, and +6 to damage, and the option to get another +4 damage via Power Surge. You are still losing 3 feats, effectively, which makes the original HElves Angel split more attractive.

You are aware of the fact that recommending Tempest for this build, you are proposing a PrE which excludes one of the PrEs sought by the OP? Would you also recommend to roll a Wiz when asked for Rogue build advice?

Grieve, have you considered something like a 11 Ranger/6 Paladin/3 Monk build? You sacrifice one tier of Divine Might (+2 damage), and 1d6 against evil outsiders. On the bright side, Ranger 11 effectively grants 3 feats, and +3 damage against all favored enemies (and 3 instead of 2 FEs).

Edit: 2k.

[Grieve]

Grieve, have you considered something like a 11 Ranger/6 Paladin/3 Monk build? You sacrifice one tier of Divine Might (+2 damage), and 1d6 against evil outsiders. On the bright side, Ranger 11 effectively grants 3 feats, and +3 damage against all favored enemies (and 3 instead of 2 FEs).

I gave this some thought and actually came up with a slightly different idea. Taken feats would be tight, but 11Ranger/9Cleric Helf with the only PRE being the Racial AA. The concept would be that you would still have Divine Favor capped and DM I, but you would gain numerous buffs as well as Divine Punishment. I would think that if you had DP with Maximize and a couple enchancements in the line that would be effective supplemental DPS tacked on to your melee & ranged DPS. And yes I checked to make sure the spell pool would be enough and it would work out as long as the player has the SP gear.